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-   -   Velcro on rope? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153264)

garyjune 09-01-2017 20:51

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Would it be allowed to have a rope made from a "fuzzy" material that Velcro is able to attach to?

mman1506 09-01-2017 20:55

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garyjune (Post 1628269)
Would it be allowed to have a rope made from a "fuzzy" material that Velcro is able to attach to?

Yes, I'd recommend trying to attack a nylon webbing strap with those pet fur brushes with tiny metal teeth to make it fuzzy. It's the same material as fuzzy velcro.

rich2202 09-01-2017 21:16

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thedude019 (Post 1627645)
but may be legal to use Velcro as the rope.

^^^ this

Make your own rope by braiding in a strand of Velcro.

Quote:

consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven, or braided together
Nothing requires all the "strands" to be of the same material. Anyone know how to braid a 4 strand rope?

Jpatterson1710 10-01-2017 00:16

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich2202 (Post 1628282)
Anyone know how to braid a 4 strand rope?

YouTube does!

Pendulum^-1 10-01-2017 12:33

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
From the first sentence of section 3.8:

"A ROPE is a strong, thick string composed of twisted or braided strands of manila, hemp, flax, or the like...."

Personally, I'd never describe a velcro strap as a "string." It may be woven, etc, but I'd not consider it a string.

I strongly suspect that the GDC will rule velcro straps to not qualify as any sort of string.

engunneer 10-01-2017 12:46

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendulum^-1 (Post 1628635)
From the first sentence of section 3.8:

"A ROPE is a strong, thick string composed of twisted or braided strands of manila, hemp, flax, or the like...."

Personally, I'd never describe a velcro strap as a "string." It may be woven, etc, but I'd not consider it a string.

I strongly suspect that the GDC will rule velcro straps to not qualify as any sort of string.

if it is woven entirely of nylon strands, I think it will get passed. obviously we have to wait for the Q&A or first team update, which should be out in a few hours.

Mr V 10-01-2017 12:48

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
The rules state that you can "whip" the final 4" of the rope to prevent it from fraying. If velcro can't be used to whip it then use some fuzzy yarn, I'm pretty certain that you can find something that the hook side will grab well enough.

Stealth101 10-01-2017 15:14

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by viggy96 (Post 1627549)
Can we put velcro on our rope? We plan on using a ratchet strap for our rope. Can we put velcro on it in order to aid climbing?

Why not just use the strap itself as the rope? Because isn't the strap a woven marterial

KevinG 10-01-2017 16:00

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
My own thoughts:

There does not appear to be any restriction on the construction of the "rope" itself, beyond the maximum width (not diameter) and that it must consist of non-metallic fibers that are "twisted, tied, braided, or woven together". Velcro itself is a piece of webbing woven together with strands to form either the hook or the loop. It is absolutely fibers that are woven together. That said you couldn't take two sticky-backed pieces of Velcro and stick them together, but you could sew them.

The rope is considered part of the arena, therefore the robot rules don't apply. There is no rule saying that an arena piece can't be covered in hook tape, or that it can't connect to the carpet. Arguably you could make a "rope" long enough to touch the carpet and actually adhere to it using hook tape.

R05 bans the use of hoop and loop for "tractions devices" which are defined as "all parts of the ROBOT that are designed to transmit any propulsive and/or braking forces between the ROBOT and FIELD carpet." So unless your climbing mechanism also interfaces with the field carpet then R05 would not apply to it.

R08 specifically states that the rope, once removed from the davit, is no longer part of the field. So you can use a winding mechanism or something else that would be difficult to quickly remove.

So barring further clarification by FIRST it seems like a hook and loop fastener "rope" would be perfectly legal. That said don't be surprised if FIRST doesn't clarify this at some point, particularly since it seems like a fairly easy solution that goes against the spirit of a "rope".

Please note that the above comments are my personal thoughts and do not reflect any official stance on the part of FIRST or the Chesapeake District. They are, at best, a snapshot of how I would personally interpret the rules as available should I encounter it at a competition as a RI/LRI.

Tom Line 10-01-2017 16:01

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by viggy96 (Post 1627549)
Can we put velcro on our rope? We plan on using a ratchet strap for our rope. Can we put velcro on it in order to aid climbing?

I suggest you put send that in as a Q&A to the official first folks. Not to quibble, but a lot of people are really lawyering it up on this whole thing. A bus has 4 wheels, and engine, and a whole lot of other similarities to a car, but most would say it isn't a car. Likewise, webbing, tie-down straps, and velcro runs may have many characteristics of rope, but they aren't called rope.

Just don't walk the edge of the rule and be surprised if you fall off. Ask the question and be sure.

carpedav000 10-01-2017 16:08

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
If this isn't in the week 1 rule update, then it'll probably be legal. Wasn't that when they released the climbing rule that ruined it last year?

Bruceb 10-01-2017 16:19

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
when will the first rule update be published?

KevinG 10-01-2017 16:30

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruceb (Post 1628796)
when will the first rule update be published?

The Q&A opens tomorrow. Rules updates are usually done weekly I think?

EricH 10-01-2017 18:43

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinG (Post 1628800)
The Q&A opens tomorrow. Rules updates are usually done weekly I think?

Bi-weekly. TU#1 is out now, and doesn't address the question. TU#2 is due out on Friday, and if someone asks in Q&A and Velcro is ruled illegal I'd bet on it being in TU#2, as there's this discussion going on...

Updates are Tuesdays and Fridays until competition season, when they're on Tuesdays only.

KevinG 10-01-2017 23:44

Re: Velcro on rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1628876)
Bi-weekly. TU#1 is out now, and doesn't address the question. TU#2 is due out on Friday, and if someone asks in Q&A and Velcro is ruled illegal I'd bet on it being in TU#2, as there's this discussion going on...

Updates are Tuesdays and Fridays until competition season, when they're on Tuesdays only.

Cool, thanks.

My guess is that they will add a minimum dimension for the rope, and specify diameter instead of width. Whether or not they ban Velcro will be particularly interesting.


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