Steamworks sightlines
 

You may have noticed that the airship imposes a very significant restriction on the sightlines in this year's game. I drew up some diagrams in GIMP so you can see just how big of a problem this will be throughout the season. The striped areas are visible to the respective red team.

Station 1:


Station 2


Station 3:


I hope this helps guide your strategy discussions. Good luck!

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Note that each alliance also has team members behind the other alliance's glass. It wouldn't surprise me if some well-coordinated alliances designated some human players there to primarily be in a role signaling information to the drivers, similar to last year's "Spy".

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

True, but that still presents a significant challenge. Also, they're far enough back from the glass that they'll have a hard time helping if you're trying to defend against a gearbot.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Right now, I'm less concerned with seeing their gearbots than I am with seeing my own loading stations.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

I forsee a lot of moving around in the driver station this year.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

this is kind of related to sightlines, but does anyone know whether or not the pilot will be able to communicate with their drivers via shouting during the match? Thanks.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

C12 restricts this

C12. Plug in to/be in your PLAYER STATION. The OPERATOR CONSOLE must be used in the PLAYER STATION to which the Team is assigned, as indicated on the Team sign.

Violation: The MATCH will not start until the situation is corrected. If during a MATCH, YELLOW CARD.

One intent of C12 is to prevent unsafe situations where long tethers to OPERATOR CONSOLE devices increase tripping hazards as the operator moves about the ALLIANCE STATION. In the interest of avoiding nuisance penalties associated with an operator stepping outside of a prescribed area, we prefer to offer a general guideline as to what it means to use the OPERATOR CONSOLE in the ALLIANCE STATION. Provided the operator is within close proximity of their PLAYER STATION, there will be no repercussions. However, if an operator is located more than approximately 1⁄2 PLAYER STATION width away from their own PLAYER STATION, that would be considered a violation of C12.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

I wouldn't count on it. Not because of any rule, but because it's really loud during matches. You're in a room with hundreds if not thousands of people all facing you talking and cheering plus loud music playing plus a game announcer talking over microphone plus robots moving around and making noise. Any strategy that relies on the pilot shouting to their teammates is not one I would ever trust.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Based on some of the graphics, it appears the air ship bases are transparent. This should provide some amount of sight through the base.

In terms of moving around to see when the driver can't, isn't that the coach's job?

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1mM_amcQZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeOevMTC_rw

Easier said than done. Communicating how to move your robot to a driver who can't see their robot is rather difficult to get the results you want.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Why not use the pilots? They have a better view.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Why not the huge camera poles from last year? I don't remember seeing any restrictions on these in the rules, and they helped our team significantly last year.

Check the rules on operator consoles. Height limits were imposed this year.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

The base of the airship also has a smaller diameter than the top (it flairs out). So line of sight won't be quite as bad as depicted. Still pretty bad though.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Have you ever had an FTA try to talk to you through the glass before a match?

It doesn't work then, it's certainly not going to work during a match. An Aldis Lamp might be an option though.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

If this rule didn't exist.
Signaling devices: fine. Powered signaling devices: not fine. Start stocking up on baguettes.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

I don't know if any teams pulled this off last year, but it might be legal to put a camera on the standard in order to get a higher vantage point...

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Your pilot could hold up a mirror:rolleyes:

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Drivers are gonna have to drive by feel to keep up their speed. The 3rd station view of the loading station is definitely a tough one.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Seeds 2-7 will have an interesting time of great and terrible performances as they swap bumper colors. This year the field is mirrored, which is different than the usual rotational symmetry. So a 1st pick that has GREAT line of sight to what they need in QF's may very well have AWFUL line of sight to that same function in SF's.

It also means that, depending on what teams are at an event, 1st seed may be forced to go with a shooter as a 1st pick regardless of final strategy.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Heck, have you ever tried to talk through the glass during field setup when you need the pair of diagonal cutters sitting on the shelf? You can't understand anything when it is just about dead quiet in there, let alone with the noise of an arena.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Alliance 6 also has consistent bumper colors (blue) through-out the entirety of the tournament.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Two interesting ideas:

1) The Qualifier Scheduling algorithm lists no optimization to station position. Meaning it's possible some poor team could get station 2 all event long.

2) If we get stuck in station 2 - which leaves us practically blind - it does not appear to violate the rules (C12 being for players), if we put a camera on a pole extending into the station next to us, if the entire width of camera, pole, and station is <= 60"

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

We did a quick review using VR from the CAD models to let the team members try the sight lines. The Airship will certainly mean that we have to have the on-board drive and shooting camera 110% .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7q-puZV0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VargklREhqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNiBjDN45Tk

apologies in advance for the branding in the video, the price of free access to hardware and software.

Haven't worked up the VR model to include the robotics interaction yet. But that should be possible in addition to just visualizing. The team is superpsyched to get to walk around and see the field immersed in the CAD models though. So I guess I keep lugging the Vive and the Workstation around.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

I noticed this yesterday during a random youtube search. No worries about the product placement - the info here is invaluable. Thank you for sharing, and please keep them coming :).

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Check the Team Banner standards, linked from rule C10.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

The middle driver station would be ideal for defense robots as they can see most of the opposing field where bots will be shooting or placing gears.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Our team talked about this, alliance selection is a big deal depending what color you are.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Even if parts are transparent, there will be pilots standing and moving about, not to mention that the lexan still makes it harder to see your robot (glare, distortion, etc.) I think seeing the robot will be difficult regardless.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

You may be right. One way or another, I think that this year (more than any other) your driver station position may be a critical limiting factor when it comes to what strategies you want to execute in a given match.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

I swear to god, why buy a fancy pair of Bose headphones to block out noise when you could just use some driver station lexan. Last year I had to stick my head through the boulder hole just to make sure the robot was ready on the field.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Here is a picture of all 3 sightlines overlayed. It's interesting to see that the spot by the center lift on your side of the field is pretty much out of sight from the entire opposing alliance drive teams. This presents a potential safe spot for scoring.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

Whoah, thanks for making this! That's a good catch, and may be helpful. However, your alliance partners might not be quite so excited about you taking up the most convenient lift... :)

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

This. If we can't communicate during field setup, no way it's happening during a match.

Ever wonder why a team continues trying to drive their robot when their gearbox is making some atrociously loud noise every time they push the joystick? Everyone else in the arena may be able to hear it, but they can't.

When I was a student, we used a glove with different bright colors of duct tape on either side to allow the human player to communicate simple yes/no - forward/back - right/left signals to the driver. A similar strategy may be very helpful this year.

I'm sure with these sightlines, every technical volunteer is thrilled that we actually have radios that enforce the bandwidth limit. I imagine we will see quite a boost in camera usage this year.

Re: Steamworks sightlines
 

While the pilots do have a much better view, they will be busy during the match picking up gears and placing them. Plus how will they signal you? They cant yell, you wont be able to hear them. You cant even hear the FTA through the glass before the match starts. Maybe you can use flags or something, but I am sure that FIRST will develop some rule on what pilots con bring into the Airship