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-   -   Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153450)

bobbysq 11-01-2017 15:00

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1629319)
Hovercraft

We were planning on using BristleDrive. You attach off balance loads to 6 CIMs and attach floor brushes to the bottom of your robot.

Karibou 11-01-2017 15:06

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1629386)
H Drive and Mecanum Drive trains wont be bad until eliminations where they will be completely wrecked by defenders. Good luck trying to align for anything with a robot pushing yours around.

Wouldn't that happen to a swerve drive too?

EricLeifermann 11-01-2017 15:12

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1629386)

H Drive and Mecanum Drive trains wont be bad until eliminations where they will be completely wrecked by defenders. Good luck trying to align for anything with a robot pushing yours around.

Enjoy all those penalties for hitting people in their protected zones....

gerthworm 11-01-2017 15:22

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 1629430)
Wouldn't that happen to a swerve drive too?

For a well designed swerve drive, it should have similar traction to a tank drive, but you can point that traction in any direction you want. Combined with the high off-axis coefficient of friction of non-omni wheels, it's much harder to push a swerve drive around.


For a poorly designed swerve drive, high unexpected lateral loads will simply break it.

IronicDeadBird 11-01-2017 15:24

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
I think I'm stuck with simple drivetrains this year. Space on the robot feels more valuable, field doesn't have much in terms of obstacles.
Dunno maybe 6 - 8 wheel tanks, possibly skid steer...

Darkseer54 11-01-2017 16:04

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1629434)
Enjoy all those penalties for hitting people in their protected zones....

The only protected zone is the receiving zone...

Ekcrbe 11-01-2017 16:07

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
You can always say that a well-executed swerve drive by a team that knows both how to build it and how to get the most out of it with programming could be the most effective. That being said, the most effective drivetrain is often the one your team can drive the best and gets you where you want to go despite your opposition. The drivetrain you can drive best is the one you can practice with the most, and getting where you want to go usually means having good traction, either to run through defense or to play it.

[aside]
Yes, we can debate about whether mecanum/holonomic allows you to juke out your defenders, making traction irrelevant, but suffice it to say that finding this level of skill and control in a driver and robot, if it exists, is rare.
[/aside]

There are a select few teams that have the capacity to build a complex drivetrain fast and train their drivers to a high degree of skill with it, but for everyone else, stick to a 4/6/8-wheel skid steer and it will be the most effective for you. To fulfill Andrew's definitions, a skid steer will be the most effective drivetrain choice for most teams, and as such it will be the most successful drivetrain on aggregate across FRC.

EricLeifermann 11-01-2017 16:13

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkseer54 (Post 1629472)
The only protected zone is the receiving zone...

True, but he didn't say where he was going to hit them. And if I'm in my key up against the boiler and they're hitting me they are more likely to get a 5 second penalty rule.

Smart defense is going to be played in the middle of the field, where there is close to 0 chance of getting a penalty. In the middle of the field, it doesn't matter what your drive is if you know how to drive smart.

That said there are only a few drives I would do this year and standard west-coast is at the top of that list.

Poseidon5817 11-01-2017 16:52

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
A well-executed swerve will be the most effective this year. With an open field layout, but some areas where maneuvering is essential, not to mention its ability to resist being pushed by rotating the wheels against defense, it should be great. Steamworks is essentially swerve heaven.

That being said, many teams will be trying swerve for the first time this year, and from experience, that scares me. To new teams doing swerve: please use the resources available to you to succeed at its design and programming: I don't want to see any other teams sitting still in most of their matches or twitching and burning holes in the carpet, like we and other teams have done. Also, feel free to shoot me a PM if you need any other help.

Xanawatt 12-01-2017 15:30

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Can you start to make this an annual post like the score predictions post? I would love to see the change over time.

efoote868 12-01-2017 15:47

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817 (Post 1629516)
A well-executed swerve will be the most effective this year.

Most teams attempting swerve will not be well-executed.

I would be surpised if something other than 6 wheel drives to be the majority of drive trains. And since most perennial powerhouses are vehemently opposed to purely holonomic drive trains (mecanum, kiwi, omni), that leaves tank and swerve, with a smidgen of butterfly.

I'm guessing > 75% of robots on Einsteins will have 6 wheel drive.

I_AM_Clayton 13-01-2017 00:09

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanawatt (Post 1630118)
Can you start to make this an annual post like the score predictions post? I would love to see the change over time.

Will do! As long as I remember/time is available.

PayneTrain 13-01-2017 06:23

Re: Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains
 
I am very interested to see if a team will be going after a drive style seen on 9973 at 2013 MTTD or 33's 2014 drive and I will be monitoring for their performance.


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