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-   -   That's a lot of fuel (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153460)

rich2202 11-01-2017 13:44

That's a lot of fuel
 
It just occurred to me: There will be a lot of fuel on the field.

Once the hoppers are dumped, 560 Fuel:
100 Fuel (50 on each side) waiting to be dumped through the loader
300 fuel (50 per bot) moving around the field, or being dumped/shot into the Boiler. Note: Once a bot dumps its load into the boiler, by the time it picks up more fuel, the Boiler will have processed dumped fuel. So you are not likely to have fuel in the bot and boiler at the same time.

That leaves 160 fuel rolling around on the field. Even allowing for 50 overflow on each side, that is 60 fuel rolling around the field.

What's the strategy for dealing with excess fuel behind the Alliance Wall? Do you just dump it on the field? That's better than letting the other alliance dump the overflow fuel into their robots at their Alliance wall.

WSiggs 11-01-2017 14:06

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich2202 (Post 1629351)
It just occurred to me: There will be a lot of fuel on the field.

Once the hoppers are dumped, 560 Fuel:
100 Fuel (50 on each side) waiting to be dumped through the loader
300 fuel (50 per bot) moving around the field, or being dumped/shot into the Boiler. Note: Once a bot dumps its load into the boiler, by the time it picks up more fuel, the Boiler will have processed dumped fuel. So you are not likely to have fuel in the bot and boiler at the same time.

That leaves 160 fuel rolling around on the field. Even allowing for 50 overflow on each side, that is 60 fuel rolling around the field.

What's the strategy for dealing with excess fuel behind the Alliance Wall? Do you just dump it on the field? That's better than letting the other alliance dump the overflow fuel into their robots at their Alliance wall.

Don't forget the extra 20 fuel at each alliance's Return Load Station that is there at the beginning of the match. Also overall even 60 balls over the entire field isn't that much. If there are that few on the ground at a time then it will take a lot of time to go and collect enough to fill your bot.

Boltman 11-01-2017 14:28

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Expect kamikaze bot dumping all fuel in 30 seconds so 560 on floor potential

Brian C 11-01-2017 14:30

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 

FrankJ 11-01-2017 15:18

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
1 Attachment(s)
As usual, Randal has it covered

Jarren Harkema 11-01-2017 15:49

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ci...le-d_1905.html

Have fun, virtual high five to the first person who figures out the surface area of the field, and the even spacing necessary to fit all the balls on the field.

Bonus, how tightly can they be packed, and what percentage of the field does it actually cover?

engunneer 11-01-2017 16:06

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema (Post 1629453)
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ci...le-d_1905.html

Have fun, virtual high five to the first person who figures out the surface area of the field, and the even spacing necessary to fit all the balls on the field.

Bonus, how tightly can they be packed, and what percentage of the field does it actually cover?

I estimate that the field is at most 5% covered by fuel.

Lil' Lavery 11-01-2017 16:59

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
There's gonna be fuel rolling around the alliance station and loading lanes, as well. You can even so one little fuel go running for his life in one of the field tour videos. Some poor human player is inevitably going to step on the fuel and fall over, probably while carrying a tote full of even more fuel.

Poseidon5817 11-01-2017 17:02

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1629478)
I estimate that the field is at most 5% covered by fuel.

After doing some rough math, the field can hold approximately 7000 fuel, which means about 10-15% of the field will be covered max.

FrankJ 11-01-2017 17:06

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
It is going to be interesting carrying 150 lb robots off a field covered in balls. :ahh: I pity the field reset people.

Lil' Lavery 11-01-2017 17:13

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1629527)
It is going to be interesting carrying 150 lb robots off a field covered in balls. :ahh: I pity the field reset people.

Simply put, I'm not going to allow myself or my drive crew to lift the robot until all the balls have been cleared. The risk simply isn't worth it.

CEF 11-01-2017 17:18

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1629534)
Simply put, I'm not going to allow myself or my drive crew to lift the robot until all the balls have been cleared. The risk simply isn't worth it.

You're not being very optimistic -- I think you meant "remove the robot from the top of the rope."

Glacier 11-01-2017 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1629527)
It is going to be interesting carrying 150 lb robots off a field covered in balls. :ahh: I pity the field reset people.



As a third year resetter I pity me too


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Lil' Lavery 11-01-2017 17:22

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CEF (Post 1629538)
You're not being very optimistic -- I think you meant "remove the robot from the top of the rope."

No, I meant lift the robot. I'm not going to have a high school students (or adults) carrying a 150 lb robot off a field with tripping hazards littered around it. I've seen a students' knee buckle while carrying a robot before, and I'm not inviting that possibility again.

Kevin Leonard 11-01-2017 17:38

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CEF (Post 1629538)
You're not being very optimistic -- I think you meant "remove the robot from the top of the rope."

Oh jeez I hadn't thought about this situation. Hopefully FIRST will have some sort of solution for quickly clearing balls out of the way for week 1 events, because there's no way we can have students carrying robots through a pile of balls.

Kevin Sevcik 11-01-2017 17:41

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1629541)
No, I meant lift the robot. I'm not going to have a high school students (or adults) carrying a 150 lb robot off a field with tripping hazards littered around it. I've seen a students' knee buckle while carrying a robot before, and I'm not inviting that possibility again.

I think he was suggesting you modify your restriction to not even lifting the robot off the rope/davit till the field is clear of balls. 90-95% of the lifts to get the robot off the davit would be straight up/down, but every now and then someone's going to grab it funny and have to shift weight and step. or the person freeing the rope will have to shift position slightly. That'd be the absolute worst time to step on a ball.

Kevin Sevcik 11-01-2017 17:44

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard (Post 1629552)
Oh jeez I hadn't thought about this situation. Hopefully FIRST will have some sort of solution for quickly clearing balls out of the way for week 1 events, because there's no way we can have students carrying robots through a pile of balls.

Quick, someone slap a mecanum intake and giant hopper onto a handcart! (Seriously, I think HQ should look into something like this. Hoovering 90% of the balls would make field reset a lot quicker.)

aldaeron 11-01-2017 17:51

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard (Post 1629552)
Oh jeez I hadn't thought about this situation. Hopefully FIRST will have some sort of solution for quickly clearing balls out of the way for week 1 events, because there's no way we can have students carrying robots through a pile of balls.

WE NEED DOZER!!!!!!! This year more than ever!

rich2202 11-01-2017 18:26

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1629541)
No, I meant lift the robot. I'm not going to have a high school students (or adults) carrying a 150 lb robot off a field with tripping hazards littered around it. I've seen a students' knee buckle while carrying a robot before, and I'm not inviting that possibility again.

He meant that you were underestimating the ability of your robot. Ideally you will be removing it from a hang, and not lifting it from the floor.

JesseK 11-01-2017 19:03

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Seems like each event needs a contest for best ball vacuum for field reset. Points given for ease of use, battery efficiency, and time required to gather balls.

scca229 11-01-2017 20:09

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
I'm thinking something similar to this floor squeegee, probably with wheels on the far edges and maybe one in the middle to quickly corral the fuel:

Floor Squeegee

Get the fuel pushed away from the bots quickly so removal can happen safely.


I'm also thinking of making a couple of exactly sized boxes to dump fuel into that measures out 50 of them for easy *counting* to put back in the hopper containers. Just fill the box and dump it in. Trying to come up with ways to make my field reset crew jobs a little easier and the new CNC Router that will be mounted in the garage this weekend will need something to work on.

AndyBare 11-01-2017 21:07

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik (Post 1629556)
Quick, someone slap a mecanum intake and giant hopper onto a handcart! (Seriously, I think HQ should look into something like this. Hoovering 90% of the balls would make field reset a lot quicker.)

Leaf blowers :)

engunneer 11-01-2017 21:28

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 

ctt956 11-01-2017 21:30

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1629523)
There's gonna be fuel rolling around the alliance station and loading lanes, as well. You can even so one little fuel go running for his life in one of the field tour videos. Some poor human player is inevitably going to step on the fuel and fall over, probably while carrying a tote full of even more fuel.

This could also be a hazard to pilots... Warning to all human players this year: Watch your step!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scca229 (Post 1629626)
I'm thinking something similar to this floor squeegee, probably with wheels on the far edges and maybe one in the middle to quickly corral the fuel:

Floor Squeegee

Get the fuel pushed away from the bots quickly so removal can happen safely.


I'm also thinking of making a couple of exactly sized boxes to dump fuel into that measures out 50 of them for easy *counting* to put back in the hopper containers. Just fill the box and dump it in. Trying to come up with ways to make my field reset crew jobs a little easier and the new CNC Router that will be mounted in the garage this weekend will need something to work on.

A push broom or a big dust mop might work if they would slide on the carpet..

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyBare (Post 1629657)
Leaf blowers :)

I can't say that's a bad idea...

Kevin Sevcik 11-01-2017 21:43

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1629673)

It'd only have to be twice as big and you'd need like 10 of them....

BigBen 11-01-2017 22:11

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Two people with battery pack powered leaf blowers for the win?

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...compressed.jpg

rich2202 11-01-2017 22:15

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Maybe the "fuel picker-upper" is what they left out of the game design manual.

IowaBoyInMN 13-01-2017 10:42

Relevant: https://youtu.be/7t0EtKlQxyo


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Rombus 13-01-2017 11:03

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Some other PCH Volunteers and I were discussing a lot of the same suggestions already mentioned here, Then I found this (rather expensive) tennis ball retriever:



It inspired me to make one up for the fuel. I have a very basic sketch and plan down for a version built out of plywood and plexi using polycord to lift the fuel. I'm mainly waiting to make sure that
1. FIRST does not have a better solution for field reset already in the works
2. confirmation of bin size

I was planning on making it push powered, but I'm wondering now if maybe a CIM to drive the collection mechanism... :hmmm:

Richard Wallace 13-01-2017 11:23

Re: That's a lot of fuel
 
Holonomic Zamboni.

Cue Hockey music ...


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