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-   -   Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153490)

1247Robotics 11-01-2017 20:08

Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
One of our mentors and just picked up a set of the Andymark 6" HD Mecanum wheels. The cost of the wheels is $104 each. We just re-read the rules on cost (R11 specifically) and we weren't sure if they are legal since they have to be used together as a set. that means their total cost is $416; which is over the $400 max. Please let us know if we can build our bot around these wheels.

Thanks!

1247Robotics 11-01-2017 20:09

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Here are the wheels in question:
http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0677.htm
http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0685.htm

SenorZ 11-01-2017 20:14

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Just list their individual costs in your CAW. Each one is a COTS component.

pmattin5459 11-01-2017 20:15

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
They are individual parts. So they can be used together. I would also consider the Vex wheels, as they're significantly cheaper and hold up well. We used them last year, and they worked pretty well (for mecanum wheels in a game that was not designed for them at all).

http://www.vexrobotics.com/mecanum-wheels.html

1247Robotics 11-01-2017 20:37

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Thanks for the info; and the suggestion on using vex in the future. In this case the mentor already purchased them.

SoccerTaco 12-01-2017 00:33

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
The cost can be high - you'll be dropped from some team's pick lists...

cbale2000 12-01-2017 01:54

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerTaco (Post 1629762)
...you'll be dropped from some team's pick lists...

I assume you mean because of the mecanum and not because of high-cost items on a robot. :rolleyes:

Chief Hedgehog 12-01-2017 02:00

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1629774)
I assume you mean because of the mecanum and not because of high-cost items on a robot. :rolleyes:

Exactly. If your team uses mecanum and cannot perform near a 2052 level of driver performance, then you will suffer the consequences. However, if your driver can perform well with mecanum, it can be a great advantage.

JesseK 12-01-2017 09:21

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1629775)
Exactly. If your team uses mecanum and cannot perform near a 2052 level of driver performance, then you will suffer the consequences. However, if your driver can perform well with mecanum, it can be a great advantage.

What year are you referring to?

MechEng83 12-01-2017 10:02

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Try ordering a set of 4, which is $399
http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0732.htm

wilsonmw04 12-01-2017 10:12

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Ahh, let the Mecanum hate flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Avn2nT16FA

Chief Hedgehog 12-01-2017 12:01

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1629829)
What year are you referring to?

2013 and 2014 were the ones I have in mind. I don't remember 2015 - I have blocked that season from memory.

525 and 2052 are in this video here - zippy little buggers

Ginger Power 12-01-2017 12:13

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1629965)
2013 and 2014 were the ones I have in mind. I don't remember 2015 - I have blocked that season from memory.

525 and 2052 are in this video here - zippy little buggers

Doesn't look like they do a ton of strafing in those videos. I think they would've been equally or better served by running a tank drive. They are the best mecanum team in the world in my opinion, and the first year they don't use mecanum (2016) they make their first apprlearence to Einstein... coincidence? Possibly, but I think not.

wilsonmw04 12-01-2017 12:29

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger Power (Post 1629970)
Doesn't look like they do a ton of strafing in those videos. I think they would've been equally or better served by running a tank drive.

check when they are near the feeder station.

JesseK 12-01-2017 12:34

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1629965)
2013 and 2014 were the ones I have in mind. I don't remember 2015 - I have blocked that season from memory.

525 and 2052 are in this video here - zippy little buggers

In the 2013 videos I saw, they saved maybe a second per cycle lining up to the HP feeder when compared to teams who had enough practice to realize they were misaligned and readjusted with tank.

I watched their 2014 videos over lunch today. It seems the biggest increase in agility they used to their advantage was to whip the robot around - going full reverse in a direction, doing a 180, and then continuing forwards in the original direction via a single, smooth maneuver. There were a few times they were pushed around the field, but at least at the Regional level it didn't hurt the overall match. They didn't directly strafe very much, but the increase in agility combined with smart driving and good strategy decisions seemed to help them win their Regionals.

At Worlds, however, particularly in the QF matches, they were definitely pushed around without question. The worst situations, due to the passing nature of that game, were when they went to pass to a partner and defense pushed them INTO that partner. In one case during QF's it was an effective open-field pin against 2 robots. Again, there was little strafing, but the increase in agility helped them bob-and weave in some cases. In the other cases, the defense that was played against them did the bobbing and weaving for them.

I don't mean this isn't an opportunity cost analysis, or what went wrong with 2052's 2014 season. There are obvious reasons to want Mecanum and to not want Mecanum drive, and 2052 seemed to use it pretty well. Versus non-aggressive defense, I think Mecanum will handle fine and can give the teams who have practice with it an edge. Yet on the World stage (which are what the high-profile guys above are alluding to), it will wind up being an exploitable weakness of an alliance.

pntbll1313 12-01-2017 12:42

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1629984)
In the 2013 videos I saw, they saved maybe a second per cycle lining up to the HP feeder when compared to teams who had enough practice to realize they were misaligned and readjusted with tank.

Here is a short compilation of our mecanum from 2013. I think this was probably one of our most effective mecanum robots.

JohnFogarty 12-01-2017 12:47

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbll1313 (Post 1629991)
Here is a short compilation of our mecanum from 2013. I think this was probably one of our most effective mecanum robots.

You should post this in the Mechanum vs Tank Drive thread if you haven't already. Those spin moves your driver did were disgustingly good...and not possible with tank drive either....I think.

JesseK 12-01-2017 12:49

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbll1313 (Post 1629991)
Here is a short compilation of our mecanum from 2013. I think this was probably one of our most effective mecanum robots.

Thanks for that video - it helps show off the best of what Mecanum can offer. I see a lot more strafing and even more 'whip arounds' that proved beneficial.

It seems like there were as many great uses of field elements to dodge defense in addition to the agility. If the pyramids were solid, do you expect you'd have similar results? There are very similar pinch points this year.

Andrew_L 12-01-2017 13:13

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
But why are you using giant vectored intake wheels on the drivetrain?

cadandcookies 12-01-2017 13:31

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1629994)
You should post this in the Mechanum vs Tank Drive thread if you haven't already. Those spin moves your driver did were disgustingly good...and not possible with tank drive either....I think.

I've said for a while that 2052 is the only team I've ever seen do mecanum well, and Silverfish (if I remember the name correctly) is certainly case in point. I've never seen another team approach what they were able to do with mecanum, especially 2012-14.

pntbll1313 12-01-2017 14:01

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1629999)
Thanks for that video - it helps show off the best of what Mecanum can offer. I see a lot more strafing and even more 'whip arounds' that proved beneficial.

It seems like there were as many great uses of field elements to dodge defense in addition to the agility. If the pyramids were solid, do you expect you'd have similar results? There are very similar pinch points this year.

I do not think we would have been as effective had the pyramids been solid. A lot of our strategy that year used the 4 corners of the pyramids to set picks for ourselves. We still would have been able to utilize the 180 spins to get out of T-bones and to quickly line up to the feeder.

scca229 12-01-2017 14:45

Re: Cost of Andymark 6" Mecanum Wheels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1247Robotics (Post 1629625)
One of our mentors and just picked up a set of the Andymark 6" HD Mecanum wheels. The cost of the wheels is $104 each. We just re-read the rules on cost (R11 specifically) and we weren't sure if they are legal since they have to be used together as a set. that means their total cost is $416; which is over the $400 max. Please let us know if we can build our bot around these wheels.

I've seen plenty of intakes that use only 2 mecanum wheels. A good example of what you are doing is the Rhino Track Drive Modules that were popular last year. Each of them is $369 and I can't say I ever saw a single one used on a bot, but you could if you wanted to (maybe we will as a conveyor somewhere this year). Enter each wheel as a separate COTS accounting item on the CAW.

The intent of the rule is that you can't purchase an unassembled kit of 3 parts for $200 each that are also sold as a fully assembled module for $700 and consider them separate COTS items if they are essentially useless unless combined into that module. That is attempting to skirt the $400 max per module rule in R11.

Even though the *normal* (whatever that is when talking about mecanum wheels anyway) method is to use them as a set of 4 in a drivetrain, there are many other uses.


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