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-   -   Station 2 & Match Schedules (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153533)

bdaroz 12-01-2017 13:11
Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
So it's clear from the various posts about sightlines, pictures posted from NH, and the VR / rendered images, playing at station 2 is going to be more difficult than the other 2 stations.

We posted this to Q&A Last night:
Quote:
Section 10.4.2 of the Game Manual goes into depth on the criteria and selection process for Qualification Match scheduling. Given the field layout, and the significant sightline impairment of the second PLAYER STATION, compared to PLAYER STATIONS 1 and 3, will the FMS attempt to balance distribution of PLAYER STATION assignments across the schedule? Secondly, during eliminations, will ALLIANCES be able to choose which TEAM will be at which PLAYER STATION, either per round or per MATCH?
Admittedly the 2nd question was a bit of a stretch, but the gist is, it's entirely possible to get a match schedule at an event that puts your team disproportionately on station 2 over other stations. It's also possible, but unlikely, you could get station 2 for every match, or not at all.

GDC Answered (as of 12:50p Eastern):
Quote:
The assignments for Qualification MATCHES at a given event are done by the FIELD Management System (FMS) using software called "MatchMaker." FMS runs MatchMaker on "Best" Quality mode, which generates about 5 million schedules and selects the best one possible. Details about MatchMaker can be found on the vendor's website here.

The assignments for Playoff MATCHES are based upon selection order (see 10.5.3).

Teams are required to be in their assigned stations, and there is no provision to "trade" stations with other members of an ALLIANCE (see 10.11 for exceptions regarding the FIRST Championship Playoff MATCHES).
Neither the Game Manual or the vendor's website talk about balancing station position, but they do talk about balancing red vs blue assignment.

I don't have a problem with an asymmetric field, or one station having better or worse "features" than another, but when the difference is as severe as this, in the spirit of fair play I think it's a mistake for FIRST not to attempt to balance this part of the match schedule.

ldsedam 12-01-2017 13:35
Re: Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
It is random which station you get in matches so it is possible that you get station 2 every match in qualifications. In eliminations, the alliance captain always gets station 2.

One trick my team has used in the past to get around this is with a long cable for the controller. We use xbox controllers to drive and if the cable is long, you are allowed to walk over into another driver station. After auton just pickup the controller and walk to the left or right a couple steps into the 1st or 3rd driver stations (make sure your alliance partner is okay with it first).

Ty Tremblay 12-01-2017 13:39
Re: Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldsedam (Post 1630041)
It is random which station you get in matches so it is possible that you get station 2 every match in qualifications. In eliminations, the alliance captain always gets station 2.

One trick my team has used in the past to get around this is with a long cable for the controller. We use xbox controllers to drive and if the cable is long, you are allowed to walk over into another driver station. After auton just pickup the controller and walk to the left or right a couple steps into the 1st or 3rd driver stations (make sure your alliance partner is okay with it first).
Code:
One intent of C12 is to prevent unsafe situations where long tethers to
OPERATOR CONSOLE devices increase tripping hazards as the
operator moves about the ALLIANCE STATION. In the interest of
avoiding nuisance penalties associated with an operator stepping outside
of a prescribed area, we prefer to offer a general guideline as to what it
means to use the OPERATOR CONSOLE in the ALLIANCE STATION.
Provided the operator is within close proximity of their PLAYER
STATION, there will be no repercussions. However, if an operator is
located more than approximately ½ PLAYER STATION width away from
their own PLAYER STATION, that would be considered a violation of
C12

ldsedam 12-01-2017 14:01
Re: Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
Yeah, so your allowed to take a couple steps into another station. as long as you dont cross over halfway into their station.

Bob Steele 12-01-2017 14:28
Re: Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
Our team has noticed an issue with playoffs which seems to favor the Blue alliance in every match. (Note... this actually may be an advantage for RED rather than Blue....I am checking... regardless one alliance does have an advantage) It is a result of the assignment of the alliance picks in a static manner and the apparent lack of flexibility in designing a strategy by giving teams a particular place for their drive stations. If the assignments are 1,2,3 for each team, I think that the Red team will always have their second best robot driver station on the boiler side every match and that team will never be able to see the gear/ball retrieval station on the other end of the field directly because of the airship blocking the line of sight. Additionally, the #3 robot in the alliance will never be able to see the boiler in any match. (Again this is for playoffs only)

Traditionally the #3 robot is the defender... at least this is true many times in District and Regional play so the Red Alliance will also carry this disadvantage in playoffs along with the other one.

The Blue Alliance, because of the mirrored field ALWAYS has these two robots in the opposite positions and therefore their 2nd best robot can always see the retrieval station, and the #3 robot can always see the boiler area.

Have you noticed this? We are wondering if we should bring it up to the GDC or in Q and A. It really gives an advantage to the Blue Alliance. It could easily be alleviated by changing the order of placement on the Red Alliance side to 3,2,1 (left to right) This would make everything equal.... or they could do the opposite and give EVERYONE the disadvantages.
I am just wondering what you think about this.

It is a result of the mirrored field obviously... which I can't remember ever having been done before.

Any thoughts by anyone regarding this? I know the issue was brought up in another thread but not the BLUE/RED issue to any great extent.

TDav540 12-01-2017 14:36
Re: Station 2 & Match Schedules
 
It does seem like a problem to me, but the question in the OP and the subsequent answer indicate to me that the GDC has no interest in changing this rule. So I think it's just going to be something the red alliance (specifically alliances 1, 2, 4, and 8) have to account for during alliance selection, and vice versa for the others.


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