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NotVerySwift 14-01-2017 14:42

Angled Bumpers
 
For our robot, we wanted a ball pickup system for balls on the ground to be added to our ball storage system. We are running it non-stop, so we wanted the whole front end to be an intake. The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake. We were wondering if we could have the front corner bumpers at a 70 degree (or smaller) angle instaed of a right angle. The Rules, as far as we know, don't mention the angle of bumpers, but all the images of bumpers show right angles. We wanted to make it a funnel to go into the intake.

GaryVoshol 14-01-2017 15:09

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
If you wrap a piece of string around your ROBOT and pull it taut, that defines the FRAME PERIMETER that the BUMPERS need to be attached to.

This means the angles of the frame cannot be less than 90 degrees, because you would then have a piece of that tightly pulled string that was flapping in the air without a place to attach a BUMPER.

meaubry 14-01-2017 15:46

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
All corners do not need to be 90 degrees. You must meet - R22.
ROBOTS are required to use BUMPERS to protect all outside corners of the FRAME PERIMETER. For adequate protection, at least 6 in. (~16 cm) of BUMPER must be placed on each side of each outside corner (see Figure 8-1). If a FRAME PERIMETER side is shorter than 6 in. (~16 cm), that entire side must be protected by BUMPER (see Figure 8-2).

TikiTech 14-01-2017 17:06

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
I think what you are asking is.

Can we angle the bumper at the opening to the intake to help game elements funnel into the robot / intake system?

I believe this rule answers this scenario.

I am paraphrasing....

R29.
BUMPERS must be constructed as follows .
a) backed by 3/4" robust wood.
&
c)stacked pair of 2.5" pool noodle

Having an angle at the bumper opening will no longer provide the 2.5" of pool noodle required..


Of course keeping in mind all the other bumper rules including those mentioned above.

Good luck this season

Aloha!

EricH 14-01-2017 19:10

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1631170)
If you wrap a piece of string around your ROBOT and pull it taut, that defines the FRAME PERIMETER that the BUMPERS need to be attached to.

This means the angles of the frame cannot be less than 90 degrees, because you would then have a piece of that tightly pulled string that was flapping in the air without a place to attach a BUMPER.

Someone posted a CAD render on DAY 1 with the configuration mentioned. It's going to be a long year for the inspectors...

A legal configuration for legal bumpers includes the following relevant items:
R22: 6" on either side of a corner in the Frame Perimeter (not necessarily the robot's frame--wrap a rubber band around the frame instead of string, maybe?)
R29G: Secure attachment to Frame Perimeter

Now, the described configuration fails to meet R29G, as it's not on the Frame Perimeter, and fails to meet R22 because it's not protecting the corners of the Frame Perimeter.

meaubry 15-01-2017 07:58

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Sorry - I was thinking that you meant the entire bumper assembly and not just the foam noodle part of it.
If you are strictly talking about angling the ends of the foam noodles themselves, instead of cutting the foam off relatively square at the end of the bumper - that would violate the 2 1/2" bumper requirement.
The end would be covered by less and less foam as the angle approaches the backing wood, which violates the 2 1/2" of foam requirement.

DonRotolo 15-01-2017 11:35

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVerySwift (Post 1631156)
The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake.

Yes indeed. Welcome to the 2017 game.

cbale2000 15-01-2017 12:13

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVerySwift (Post 1631156)
For our robot, we wanted a ball pickup system for balls on the ground to be added to our ball storage system. We are running it non-stop, so we wanted the whole front end to be an intake. The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake. We were wondering if we could have the front corner bumpers at a 70 degree (or smaller) angle instaed of a right angle. The Rules, as far as we know, don't mention the angle of bumpers, but all the images of bumpers show right angles. We wanted to make it a funnel to go into the intake.

Your best bet if you want a full-front intake is to make your robot intentionally short and build an intake that deploys over top of the bumpers to collect balls.

Poseidon5817 15-01-2017 12:41

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Asked on Q and A: https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/136

NotVerySwift 17-01-2017 17:18

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.

Cothron Theiss 17-01-2017 18:29

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVerySwift (Post 1632588)
I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.

I suggest you reread the rules regarding bumpers and the frame perimeter, then reread GaryVoshol's post, and then watch this video. Note that the video references a 120" frame perimeter limit, which is an old rule and does NOT apply to this year's competition. However, it's a good explanation of the frame perimeter.

The answer to your initial question is no; you cannot have convex faces in your frame perimeter simply by the definition of a frame perimeter by the rules.

EricH 17-01-2017 19:10

Re: Angled Bumpers
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVerySwift (Post 1632588)
I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.

I would put your odds of getting through inspection that way at about 5%, and your odds of having to be reinspected within a match or two at 99% when someone comments about it.

The big key here is: Frame Perimeter != robot frame. If you look at the attachment, the blue line is your robot frame as described. The red line is your Frame Perimeter. Bumpers are located on, and attach to, the Frame Perimeter.

jjb.bailey 24-01-2017 22:03

Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design
 


We at Team TNT2404 think we can use a concave design. Please check our image link above. It's a quick drawing to show "the maw"; we will have bumpers around perimeter as required. See Figure 8-1 in the 2017 Manual and description of Example following R01. Based on those figures and examples, we would like to know which rule the attached "concave" design might be breaking.

jjb.bailey
Mentor-rookie year
Parent-third year

Ari423 24-01-2017 22:25

Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jjb.bailey (Post 1635937)


We at Team TNT2404 think we can use a concave design. Please check our image link above. It's a quick drawing to show "the maw"; we will have bumpers around perimeter as required. See Figure 8-1 in the 2017 Manual and description of Example following R01. Based on those figures and examples, we would like to know which rule the attached "concave" design might be breaking.

jjb.bailey
Mentor-rookie year
Parent-third year

Image broken

Kevin Sevcik 24-01-2017 22:32

Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari423 (Post 1635951)
Image broken

Here's the image:

If the blue part is actual robot frame, then no, this is NOT legal. Those aren't bumpers, because they're not on your frame perimeter. Your frame perimeter is a straight line that goes from one side of that opening to the other. In that drawing, your frame perimeter is basically a square. And you need bumpers for atleast 6 inches in both directions on each and every corner of that square, supported at both ends by robot structure.

Again, your drawing there won't pass inspection and you'll be making major changes to your robot on Thursday. Please don't do it.


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