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-   -   Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153655)

Darre_Bonfire 14-01-2017 14:54

Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
An article posted by the Blue Alliance blog suggests that order in which alliance members are selected will be vital to take into consideration in FIRSTSteamworks.

https://blog.thebluealliance.com/201...he-lower-seed/

Because the order in which Alliance captains choose their teammates determines which drive station they will be in, it will significantly impact how teams will be chosen. If you are anything other than 1st or 8th seed you could potentially wind up in a situation where your player station assignments with respect to the field will change. So 1st and 8th can count on what station they would be in, and could pick accordingly, but otherwise your team would have to be robust in where your picks are positioned. For example if you wanted to choose your gear-bot second then depending whether you are in the blue alliance or red alliance, it might hinder the skills of that particular team.



How do you think this will effect team and alliance choices this year? Discuss.

Brian Maher 14-01-2017 14:59

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire (Post 1631159)
So 1st and 8th can count on what station they would be in, and could pick accordingly, but otherwise your team would have to be robust in where your picks are positioned.

This an interesting discussion topic, but I have one minor correction*: it is the 1st alliance who always has red bumpers and the 6th alliance who always has blue bumpers. It is based off a bracket position, not seed. If #8 upsets #1, they are red for semifinals and finals.

*Assuming this didn't change this year. I couldn't find anything in the manual stating one way or the other on this, so I imagine it is the same as usual.

As for the impact of this: I think a lot of alliance captains will be looking for defenders with some sort of onboard camera.

GaryVoshol 14-01-2017 15:05

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
Point of order, it's the #6 Alliance that always stays Blue, not #8.

I thought this was already being discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't find it.

ImAnEngiNERD 14-01-2017 16:01

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
I had thought so too, but also didn't find any conversations on it.

Now teams will have to weigh the cost/benefit of waiting to pick another team in order to put them in a better position for sight lines or risk them getting snatched up by someone none-the-wiser. I sort of wonder whether GDC will recognize the issue and fix the assignments or if this was an intended twist in order to avoid 2nd pick being the "less competitive" bot to shake things up.

It's looking more and more like drive-by-wire is a necessity this year. If you can drive effectively regardless of position, it would make you an even more attractive as a pick since you would be flexible on position.

bdaroz 14-01-2017 16:20

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ImAnEngiNERD (Post 1631191)
I sort of wonder whether GDC will recognize the issue and fix the assignments or if this was an intended twist in order to avoid 2nd pick being the "less competitive" bot to shake things up.

We Q&A'd this question asking about qualification matches -- if the FMS this year would attempt to balance team position in the alliances, and basically got told "here's the docs", which say nothing about it. We also asked about elims and got told, you can't move stations, and they're based on selection....

So absent a significant lobbying effort by the teams, or an event where a team gets station 2 for all or nearly all of quals, I don't expect any changes.

ImAnEngiNERD 14-01-2017 17:47

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
For quals, I would have to agree it is 100% up to FMS to maintain fairness. But the issue arises in elims, when position is based on pick order, not a randomizer. Further, two alliances (1 and 6) don't have to worry about their teams being robust in driver station position because they will be either always red or always blue respectively. Everyone else has to keep in mind that in one level of the bracket or another their alliance color may change. This hasn't been a problem in other games because the field was rotationally symmetrical.

Sperkowsky 14-01-2017 18:31

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
A system similar to how the fms handles 4 team alliances should be put into Elims imo. This would allow teams to choose which team is in which position. Maybe unlike how 4 team alliances work the stations would be locked allowing for less work on the Scorekeeper. Should alleviate all concerns for Elims without too much work on the end of anyone.

ImAnEngiNERD 14-01-2017 19:01

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1631256)
A system similar to how the fms handles 4 team alliances should be put into Elims imo. This would allow teams to choose which team is in which position. Maybe unlike how 4 team alliances work the stations would be locked allowing for less work on the Scorekeeper. Should alleviate all concerns for Elims without too much work on the end of anyone.

Would certainly also solve the problem of the alliance captain being stuck behind the airship, which is arguably the worst station for visibility. Our scout/strategy team was looking at this as well, and if we do as well this year as we did last year we can almost count on being in that position.

Darre_Bonfire 14-01-2017 22:23

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
The only thing that could be worse than being alliance captain and being in that middle spot, is being a gear-bot team and being the second pick, it puts you in a position where you are diagonal from the loading station where you can barely see from that angle. If you don't have a camera on your robot at that point you are in a really bad position.

Caleb Sykes 14-01-2017 23:56

Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire (Post 1631159)
How do you think this will effect team and alliance choices this year? Discuss.

I won't speak for anyone else, but this will not be anywhere on my radar for alliance selection. Off the top of my head, I could name 5 other characteristics that will be at least an order of magnitude more important for making my selections.


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