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jblay 14-01-2017 18:28

Best Velcro
 
With the legality of velcro as the rope, I'm sure a lot of teams are looking into what the best velcro would be to choose. Has anyone found one that is guaranteed that it can handle the weight of a robot? Also one that has loop material on both sides?

Sperkowsky 14-01-2017 18:51

Re: Best Velcro
 
Ninepeak Hook & Loop Fastener Sew-On , 2" Wide, 9 Yard Length (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E7IK12M..._qMREybR0YS8P6

^ This is the velcro we bought. It was the strongest non adhesive stuff I could find. It's important to note that the velcro actually doesn't need to be that strong. Whatever rope it's stitched to is what matters since you don't want to be climbing without a wrap or two anyway.

Doug Frisk 14-01-2017 19:01

Re: Best Velcro
 
My reading of the rule is that the loop fastener (ignoring the hook part) has to be composed entirely of woven or twisted fibers.

Every piece of loop fastener I've seen has been glued or fused on the back to hold it together which I'd think would make it non-compliant.

So with that particular material, can the individual fibers be unwoven?

If not, how does it meet the FRC Steamworks definition of a rope?

I'd hate to see teams show up at events with climbers that depend on non-compliant ropes.

Ari423 14-01-2017 20:07

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1631263)
Ninepeak Hook & Loop Fastener Sew-On , 2" Wide, 9 Yard Length (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E7IK12M..._qMREybR0YS8P6

^ This is the velcro we bought. It was the strongest non adhesive stuff I could find. It's important to note that the velcro actually doesn't need to be that strong. Whatever rope it's stitched to is what matters since you don't want to be climbing without a wrap or two anyway.

Are you planning on cutting this in half or folding it over or what? I'm sure you realize that it's 2" wide and the rope can only be 1" wide max.

Sperkowsky 14-01-2017 20:08

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari423 (Post 1631299)
Are you planning on cutting this in half or folding it over or what? I'm sure you realize that it's 2" wide and the rope can only be 1" wide max.

We will be cutting it in half and then using both sides on either side of the rope.

mitchklong 25-01-2017 21:26

Re: Best Velcro
 
We bought the cargo strap as well and were planning on sewing it into a 1" strap. Anyones thoughts on that ?

Also see this product at itapestore:

https://www.itapestore.com/1-wide-VE...0RS_p_302.html

apm4242 25-01-2017 23:16

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Frisk (Post 1631265)
My reading of the rule is that the loop fastener (ignoring the hook part) has to be composed entirely of woven or twisted fibers.

Every piece of loop fastener I've seen has been glued or fused on the back to hold it together which I'd think would make it non-compliant.

So with that particular material, can the individual fibers be unwoven?

If not, how does it meet the FRC Steamworks definition of a rope?

I'd hate to see teams show up at events with climbers that depend on non-compliant ropes.

3M Hook and Loop Data Sheet

"The woven nylon hook has flexible, self-supporting inverted j-hooks protruding up from the backing with approximately 300 hooks per square inch (46 hooks/square cm). The woven nylon loop has thousands of soft, pliable napped loops protruding above the backing, providing for thousands of openings and closings (cycles)."

This seems like justification enough, but we'll be bringing a backup plan to competition.

dirtbikerxz 25-01-2017 23:37

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apm4242 (Post 1636445)
3M Hook and Loop Data Sheet

"The woven nylon hook has flexible, self-supporting inverted j-hooks protruding up from the backing with approximately 300 hooks per square inch (46 hooks/square cm). The woven nylon loop has thousands of soft, pliable napped loops protruding above the backing, providing for thousands of openings and closings (cycles)."

This seems like justification enough, but we'll be bringing a backup plan to competition.

WIth the new team updates and the Q&A answers, and the blogs, non adhesive backed velcro that is sewn onto rope is perfectly legal (as long as you dont put the hook side on the rope that is).

Athos 26-01-2017 10:59

Re: Best Velcro
 
See Team Update 5
Quote:

D. consist entirely of (except for an adhesive applied by the VENDOR as part of the normal
manufacturing process for a COTS item and no longer tacky, e.g. a “binder coat”
) flexible, nonmetallic
fibers sewn, twisted, tied, woven, or braided together except for the last 4 in. (~10 cm) of
any cut end
This question has also been answered in the Q&A. It has been made very clear that Velcro is legal as a rope.

chapman1 26-01-2017 11:04

Re: Best Velcro
 
If I wanted to make my own loop 'velcro' to sew onto a rope, I'd start with a cloth and then get busy with a needle and thread, making countless loops. Seems legal to me.

The result, though, isn't very stiff or easy to sew - but since I used nylon thread, I'll just hit one side with a heat gun and fuse everything together...

Ali Ahmed 26-01-2017 12:11

Re: Best Velcro
 
We tested some hook and loop straps from McMaster that we had laying around. It was four 1" wide, loop side, straps braided together. Held up our 2016 robot very well.

arichman1257 26-01-2017 12:21

Re: Best Velcro
 
On 1257 were using solid braid polypropylene. It functions as the loop (soft) side of the velcro very well and can support the weight of the robot. Then we have the hook (hard) side of the velcro on the spool mechanism. It grabs every time and holds very well. And since it is clingy enough to act as the loop side there is no need to add additional velcro to the rope.

M. Mellott 26-01-2017 14:28

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arichman1257 (Post 1636642)
On 1257 were using solid braid polypropylene. It functions as the loop (soft) side of the velcro very well and can support the weight of the robot. Then we have the hook (hard) side of the velcro on the spool mechanism. It grabs every time and holds very well. And since it is clingy enough to act as the loop side there is no need to add additional velcro to the rope.

Would you be so kind as to provide a supplier/manufacturer or even a web page/part number? Thank you!

bmammen 26-01-2017 14:44

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M. Mellott (Post 1636698)
Would you be so kind as to provide a supplier/manufacturer or even a web page/part number? Thank you!

Ditto, I would be interested in the manufacturer too.
Thanks!

Parker Brotman 26-01-2017 18:22

Re: Best Velcro
 
Here's a document on military specifications for hook and loop fasteners. The first table contains the breaking strength for each class of hook and each class of loop.

Here's a pdf on which versions of Velcro brand hook and loop fall under which classes.

arichman1257 26-01-2017 21:19

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M. Mellott (Post 1636698)
Would you be so kind as to provide a supplier/manufacturer or even a web page/part number? Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmammen (Post 1636708)
Ditto, I would be interested in the manufacturer too.
Thanks!

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bol...5236/206033031

Here ya go! Happy climbing!

johnyes747 28-01-2017 09:19

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arichman1257 (Post 1636642)
On 1257 were using solid braid polypropylene. It functions as the loop (soft) side of the velcro very well and can support the weight of the robot. Then we have the hook (hard) side of the velcro on the spool mechanism. It grabs every time and holds very well. And since it is clingy enough to act as the loop side there is no need to add additional velcro to the rope.

Do you guys have any video of this? It sounds awesome!

arichman1257 28-01-2017 17:08

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnyes747 (Post 1637385)
Do you guys have any video of this? It sounds awesome!

Unfortunately I do not at this time. We have a meeting this Monday and I will do my best to remember to take some video :)

M. Mellott 30-01-2017 14:12

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arichman1257 (Post 1636908)

Alan, thank you for the link!

Michael Hill 30-01-2017 15:07

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M. Mellott (Post 1638195)
Alan, thank you for the link!

Has there been some kind of crazy buy of this rope? Not available for shipping nor available at any store within 100 miles

EDIT: Nevermind. It looks like you may need to buy a roll though.

arichman1257 30-01-2017 19:58

Re: Best Velcro
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's the link to watch a video. And also, a picture to prove that this rope is strong enough. For reference I am 160 pounds.
I walked into my local Home Depot and asked to see the rope section and I found this right away. If you are having trouble finding it here's another buy link. If that doesn't work it's called solid braid polypropylene rope.Make sure that you don't get the twisted kind because I can't verify that it works. I'm pretty sure that it DOES NOT work for that matter.

Edit: In the picture I was struggling because I don't have great upper body strength :)

GaryVoshol 31-01-2017 17:00

Re: Best Velcro
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arichman1257 (Post 1638402)

Edit: In the picture I was struggling because I don't have great upper body strength :)

I'm surprised they haven't made that illegal yet. (A team member hanging on the rope, not reduced upper body strength.)

snoman 01-02-2017 00:38

Re: Best Velcro
 
Thanks for the advice on the polypropylene rope. Here we are (un modified rope) hook side velcro on our winch drum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lm5PH-Qxqk


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