Chief Delphi

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   Rules/Strategy (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Why the low Gear love (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153800)

JamesBrown 17-01-2017 14:28

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoble (Post 1632464)
A team that can consistently cycle rapidly and get three rotors turning on their own would do alright. This would require a ton of automation and driver practice, but I don't think that the only top-level bots we see will be ball shooters. Someone, somewhere is going to break gears.

If your alliance partners average even 1 gear each, then 6 gears (enough for 3 rotors) is worth 40 points in qualifications regardless of how many gears the team scores in total. It becomes more valuable in eliminations, if your partners can combine for 6 gears between them.

I think that teams that can average 6 gears a match are probably used to winning competitions. 6 gears seems feasible to me in the drivers station nearest the loading stations as you have a clean view of the loading stations and the peg. In the center and Boiler side drivers stations, you have an obstructed, or partially obstructed view of the loading station. Averaging 6 gears per match will be extremely difficult.

mrnoble 17-01-2017 14:45

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Anyone consider a three-gear auto? That would be fun

Cory 17-01-2017 15:14

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBrown (Post 1632486)
If your alliance partners average even 1 gear each, then 6 gears (enough for 3 rotors) is worth 40 points in qualifications regardless of how many gears the team scores in total. It becomes more valuable in eliminations, if your partners can combine for 6 gears between them.

I think that teams that can average 6 gears a match are probably used to winning competitions. 6 gears seems feasible to me in the drivers station nearest the loading stations as you have a clean view of the loading stations and the peg. In the center and Boiler side drivers stations, you have an obstructed, or partially obstructed view of the loading station. Averaging 6 gears per match will be extremely difficult.

Averaging 6 gears per match would make you one of the top 5-10 robots in the world. Top robots in 2011 were hanging ~6 tubes on average in teleop. topping out at probably 8. And that was with a more open field, a protected scoring zone, and the ability to sit in the protected zone and grab tubes that were thrown cross field to you.

RoboChair 17-01-2017 15:20

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Maher (Post 1632362)
It doesn't make sense to sink time into a scoring objective that won't yield any points.

Unless you are being scouted by a powerhouse team during your match to prove how fast you can cycle during the entire match.

Fields 17-01-2017 15:30

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoble (Post 1632496)
Anyone consider a three-gear auto? That would be fun

Unfortunately, this is not possible solely on one robot. Only the gears robots start with are on the field.

Would be cool if they allowed human player to still feed a robot though.

RoboChair 17-01-2017 15:43

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fields (Post 1632521)
Unfortunately, this is not possible solely on one robot. Only the gears robots start with are on the field.

Would be cool if they allowed human player to still feed a robot though.

It is totally possible with a single robot! Probable this year, no. There is nothing in the rules that prevent a single robot from doing 3 gears in auto other than time.

Chris is me 17-01-2017 15:49

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1632526)
It is totally possible with a single robot! Probable this year, no. There is nothing in the rules that prevent a single robot from doing 3 gears in auto other than time.

You also need partners to actively cooperate, supporting a gear with their robot that drops to the floor in some way in a predictable position. Gears can't touch the floor as preloads, right?

Gaurav27 17-01-2017 15:54

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBrown (Post 1632486)
If your alliance partners average even 1 gear each, then 6 gears (enough for 3 rotors) is worth 40 points in qualifications regardless of how many gears the team scores in total. It becomes more valuable in eliminations, if your partners can combine for 6 gears between them.

I think that teams that can average 6 gears a match are probably used to winning competitions. 6 gears seems feasible to me in the drivers station nearest the loading stations as you have a clean view of the loading stations and the peg. In the center and Boiler side drivers stations, you have an obstructed, or partially obstructed view of the loading station. Averaging 6 gears per match will be extremely difficult.

I think only some of the best robots would be capable of scoring 6 gears in 2 minutes or at a rate of a gear every 20 seconds. In addition, considering the sight lines and the way pegs react to gears not properly placed, under defence this cycle time may increase even further.

JohnFogarty 17-01-2017 16:01

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1632528)
You also need partners to actively cooperate, supporting a gear with their robot that drops to the floor in some way in a predictable position. Gears can't touch the floor as preloads, right?

So basically a 3 tube auto from 2011...just with gears.

JesseK 17-01-2017 16:08

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1632528)
You also need partners to actively cooperate, supporting a gear with their robot that drops to the floor in some way in a predictable position. Gears can't touch the floor as preloads, right?

You just need 900's game piece vision tracking. Then 2-gear and 3-gear autos are totally doable :rolleyes: .

More likely, I expect the gear specialists are going to get their partners' unused dropped gears in the opening seconds of teleop. If 2 gear specialists are on an alliance I fully expect at least one of them to have crossed far into the neutral zone during autonomous, so one is down field while the other picks up a gear. If autonomous collisions are avoided, the alliance could easily be half way through the 3rd rotor in the opening 10-20 seconds of teleop, and that's just with 2 robots executing it.

On that note, this is the first year since 2009 where opposing alliances may legally collide during autonomous. The true coopertition will be coordinating with opponents to make sure robots miss each other :ahh: .

Chris is me 17-01-2017 16:17

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1632538)
So basically a 3 tube auto from 2011...just with gears.

Tubes could touch the floor in 2011, and didn't require partner robots to move at all to work. A 3 tube auton was far, far easier than a 3 gear auton this year - which isn't to say it was easy.

mrnoble 17-01-2017 16:50

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Three gears is theoretically possible, given two partners with precariously placed gears on their chassis who move forward in auto. Not likely to happen, but wouldn't it be lovely.

Andrew_L 17-01-2017 17:00

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1632513)
Top robots in 2011 were hanging ~6 tubes on average in teleop. topping out at probably 8.

Remember though, in Logomotion most teams stopped what they were doing around the 25 second mark for the minibot races. With climbing happening right next to the gear scoring area and no race to climb to the top first, I think the absence of a break in the scoring momentum will increase that average a little.

Cory 17-01-2017 17:02

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_L (Post 1632582)
Remember though, in Logomotion most teams stopped what they were doing around the 25 second mark for the minibot races. With climbing happening right next to the gear scoring area and no race to climb to the top first, I think the absence of a break in the scoring momentum will increase that average a little.

Adding 10s isn't going to increase the average throughput by an additional gear.

Joe G. 17-01-2017 17:14

Re: Why the low Gear love
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_L (Post 1632582)
Remember though, in Logomotion most teams stopped what they were doing around the 25 second mark for the minibot races. With climbing happening right next to the gear scoring area and no race to climb to the top first, I think the absence of a break in the scoring momentum will increase that average a little.

There's also the fact that teleop is 15 seconds longer in Steamworks than it was in Logomotion.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:36.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi