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Team update 3
shows in the combined update link.
https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.n...s-combined.pdf major points: SEWN added to rope definition. should end the velcro controversy once and for all. Drawing corrections the link to Q126 in thte notes should point here instead: https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/126 edit: the single update 03 pdf is posted, but the main documents page still is linking to update 2. |
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Not too much here, mostly little changes.
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Biggest update:
It looks like RP will now be avg RP per match, which just makes too much sense. |
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How would a gear ever find itself behind the alliance's wall??? All additional gears start by the loading station (on the opposite side of the field).
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Average Ranking Points! This would've saved 2 minutes of every list making meeting on friday nights of regionals. :]
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Is everybody overlooking the fact that you can rope material can be SEWN?!
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The advantage to having the RP be an average instead of a sum is that it makes it so teams don't jump up and down depending on how many matches they have, giving a better understanding of the ranking of teams during an event.
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Weaving is a method of making fabric. Sewing is a method of joining two pieces of fabric, by means of a cord (thread) that is not part of either. |
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Getting some robots to spit the field rope back out after they've half-choked themselves on it will be interesting, and time consuming. |
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I wonder how it will work? I guess we'll see, when we get our field rope in the mail later this week (hopefully) |
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I suspect they're sized to maintain their strength through the entire season despite wear. The GDC probably figured that teams wouldn't like the field ropes and allowed teams to bring their own--but, if the team's rope fails, it's not a field fault. (If the field rope fails, then that's another story.) |
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Forgive me for not reading between the ropes, how does "sewn" answer the question on velcro?
I think it is a silly discussion, because velcro is obviously not a rope, and I would never let my team take that questionable and easy route. Still, I'd like to know if teams are allowed to use velcro as that puts pure rope teams at a disadvantage. It is a fun challenge just with a rope. Winch, capstan, grab and pull up, so many good options without velcro. I'd prefer all teams use the field rope, but I'd like more clarity on the use of velcro. We will probably BYOR. |
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Having read all the team updates and answers to question I believe the question about sewing velcro on a rope or strap has been completely answered.
You will see a plethora of teams bringing their own nylon strap "rope" with loop side velcro SEWN to it and they will pass inspection. If you feel I am wrong please state why you do not believe the above statement to be true. |
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If they wanted to settle the Velcro controversy, I would think that they would just say whether it's allowed or not. This just creates more questions, and it does seem like the point of the game is to use a rope, not a rope with Velcro on it.
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"If the rope won't fray, the bot can't play!" If what you present as rope can be frayed apart at the end by the inspector into individual strands or fibers it's a rope. If it's woven, you should be able to pick at the end and unweave it. If it's twisted, you should be able to untwist it. If sewn, you should be able to pull the sewn threads. If it's tied, you should be able to untie it. Every single method of holding the rope together as defined in the rules can be frayed apart. |
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An obvious example of a legal Velcro rope would be a loop-side velcro strap where the loops are woven into the strap. Lots of range in between. Merely "being Velcro" doesn't make a rope illegal - it has to follow all of the other rules though. |
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I personally wish they'd just left the Velcro can of worms closed, and made all Velcro illegal from the start. But they didn't, so now it's legal to use some forms of Velcro on a rope, and we can be sure that some teams will. But I'm not convinced it's the best solution. I imagine we'll see some great climbing teams that use Velcro, and I imagine we'll see even more that don't.
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I'm really quite excited to see what teams come up with with the doors blasted wide open on the rope rules. There are a lot of valid directions to go, some of them involving Velcro/HAL, some not. |
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If the GDC wanted to avoid all the rope drama, they would've supplied a standard chain and provided a part number of it. |
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There are enough fuzzy-ish, non-"velcro" or "hook-and-loop" type materials out there that it would have created another arms race like Can Grabbers or MiniBots. Velcro-style rope climbers are one of the easiest and simplest solutions, and the top teams would dedicate lots of resources to finding the right legal alternative. FIRST had the choice of going down the rabbit hole of trying to regulate what is and isn't velcro for the purposes of being a ROPE, or they could make velcro-style ropes legal, let all teams take the easier route and end up with more robots climbing which is good for everyone. As mentioned above, they don't want to put in the manual "Velcro is legal" because that opens up the door to conflict with the other rope rules (bumper rules are notorious for being hard to dissect because certain separate rules together imply a requirement, and all must be simultaneously met). For those of you who are complaining that it's not really rope climbing anymore. We are not tasked with climbing a "rope". We are tasked with climbing a ROPE as defined in the manual. The game challenge is an engineering challenge, with specifications. We're being told what ROPE is. |
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