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AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
We at AndyMark want to encourage the communication of rules G04 and R03, as we are worried that a few teams will show up to their FIRST event with their bumpers outside of Volume A or Volume B. This would be a HUGE problem, as they would realize their robot is 6-7" too big in X and Y dimensions.
This would be a terrible blow to any team who didn't understand this rule until the robot inspectors told them. It's a bigger issue than "rewire your robot, you are using too small gauge wire" or "replace your bumper wood, as it's only 1/2 inch thick" or "no, you can't use Globe motors". So, we created a contest, with details on our website. We're gonna award $250 in AndyMark credit to the entry who makes the best method of communicating this rule. Being the creative folks we are, we have titled this contest the "G04 / R03 AWARENESS CONTEST"
Enter our contest by tweeting at us (@andymarkinc) or by sending an email to "contest - at - andymark.com". Andy B. |
Re: AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
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I expect the community can do much better than my pitiful little tweet from the day after kickoff! I wasn't even a little bit creative :)
https://twitter.com/mnfirstlri/statu...76563842199552 |
Re: AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
That's a great idea Andy, thanks! Every year a few teams struggle with the bumper rules, and this year it's even more complex. I'm also concerned.
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Great idea, Andy! Props to AM for doing this.
----- On a related note: I will be interested to find out (maybe from those who attend LRI training this year) how procedures at the inspection station will change due to this year's size and weight rules. Because bumpers remain excluded from the robot's maximum weight limit, while they are included in its maximum size limit, robots might have to be presented at the inspection station both with and without bumpers. R025 allows a maximum of five minutes for two people to install or remove bumpers. I wonder if this will increase the length of time that each team remains at the inspection station? |
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Do you know if they are going to use a sizing box this year (like they did years ago) or are they just going to measure. It makes a difference if the robot frame is diamond at all from "vigorous interaction" with other robots. |
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I am not Jon. :] And I don't know your answer to your question. But. the rules don't allow for any variance from vigorous robot interaction. So if you got noticeably "diamonded" and violated volume constraints, you would be expected to fix it.
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Newer teams have not had to fit their 'bot into a sizing box. Old school teams will (should) know better but the younger teams may not understand why their robot meets the measurements (with a tape measure) but doesn't fit in the area allowed. |
Re: AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
Might be a good year to implement a 2 tiered Inspection:
1) Violates R03: Ok to compete, but not ok to advance (alliance selection) 2) Fully compliant: Ok to compete and advance. |
Re: AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
The problem we had with the old school sizing boxes (which half the teams in FIRST have probably never seen, and no current student has!) rarely had to do with robots being square. The problem there were the "minor protrusions" that would prevent them from physically sliding into the box. The language around "minor protrusions" is still present in R02 for determining the frame perimeter, and with bumpers on won't be a concern for measurement purposes.
On a historical note, you will find that the "minor protrusion" language has been in the frame perimeter rules for a long time (Since 2011's R14, I believe), but wasn't included in the robot size itself until 2013 (R02/R03). 2013 was also the first year we didn't have a physical sizing box the robot had to be jammed into. |
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If FIRST decides to use a sizing box, at least it won't need to be very tall this year. It could actually be a three-faced orthogonal gauge, with a choice of two three-legged attachments to define the missing box edges, and a wand to check violation of the open faces. Much less hassle to transport and set up than the old sizing box.
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It just took your "out of the box" thinking to make it work. |
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To be fair, I would also be upset at competing 2v3 because my alliance partner didn't pass inspection. |
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Letting non-compliant teams compete, but not advance, at least lets the team get on the field for their 6-8 matches. That's about as far as 2/3rds of the teams make it anyway. Letting them on the field is Gracious Professionalism. Complaining that they may have a marginal affect on your rankings is not. |
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I don't think it's a bad thing to worry about how a team with an illegal robot will affect rankings. It doesn't all balance out in the end, as the qualifying rounds aren't nearly complete enough for such a thing to have no affect. As we've seen, a lucky schedule can propel a team to being an alliance captain, while an unlucky schedule can drop you way down in the rankings. Looking at the big picture, which is more gracious, allowing 1 team to compete with an illegal robot, or allowing the other 59 teams (at a 60 team regional) to compete on a level playing field? |
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Not to mention that winning and losing matches is a big deal in the district format, as your ranking is a crucial component of determining if you advance to the district championship and then the FRC Championship. Quote:
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This isn't the first, second, third time a rule change will result in some teams having to modify their frames at events. In FTC, I had to do this at my very first robotics event ever. It's part of the experience, and I don't think that experience should be taken away from teams. The rules should matter. A single win or loss is not a "marginal" effect on your rankings. It's the difference between the #1 seed and the number #3 seed, or the difference between #4 seed and #10 seed. It's not "un-GP" to want to play the same game under the same rules as your opponents despite differing personal goals. |
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Seriously, we need an inspection war stories thread, so I made one here |
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We need more entries!
This is a reminder that this contest is over at midnight (well, 11:59.59 pm) on Wednesday, Feb. 1st. See here for more rules. $250 of AndyMark credit is at stake! Andy B. |
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Any chance we can get an idea of current submissions so we can get an idea of how much effort we have to put in to have a chance of winning?
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Even if you don't win the $250, the teams who you educate about this rule will be the winners. The FIRST Community needs a bunch of entries! Andy B. |
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Don't want you to worry about having to put in effort for anything in the world of FRC, etc. so I went ahead and did the hard work for you, all I ask for is a 50% cut of the proceeds for my..err...your hard work ![]() |
Re: AndyMark G04 / R03 Communication Contest
I tried emailing at "contests" and "contest" (it's listed differently on the website and on Andy's original post) and got it bounced back both times.
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It should be working now. :) Apply, apply, apply! |
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https://www.facebook.com/joel.noble....58040965155532
In case the email from my students didn't get through. It was fun to watch the kids create this! |
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All the entries we received have been posted on the contest page. Look for the winner tomorrow! |
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All,
Thank you for these wonderful entries! Please pick your favorites, send them to the teams you know, post them on social media, and help get the word out for this robot size rule. Frank Merrick has agreed to be our final judge, but he wanted us at AndyMark to pick the top 3. We chose these three great submissions:
During today's Lunch with Andy video, we will announce the winner. Sincerely, Andy B. |
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I guess you guys aren't cat people :rolleyes:
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oh well, next stop is VA week 1 for these milk drinkers...see you there.... |
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Attention, attention, we have another video to check out!
For some reason, we did not see this entry from FRC 1382 until today. It's a great video, so you may enjoy it also. Unfortunately, it's not the winner, but it's still excellent. Thanks to ETEP team 1382 for this video! Sincerely, Andy B. |
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