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-   -   Pre-filling stored air (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154618)

FRCTeam2906 02-02-2017 12:53

Pre-filling stored air
 
We are looking at having alot of tanks on our bot this year. Can we fill our tanks before tbe match? We are hoping to complete this by using an external battery to power our on board compresser, then plug it back into the pcm (we are connecting it with anderson connectors). Is this legal or should we ask the q&a?

Let us know,
FRC Team 2906

Sparky3D 02-02-2017 13:03

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
You can pre-fill your tanks, but not by bypassing the control system like you proposed. Just connect your robot to your driver station via ethernet cable in your pit, enable the robot until the compressor shuts off, then put in a fresh battery. Just make sure you aren't set to run autonomous when you enable.

jSchnitz 02-02-2017 13:03

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
That definitely isn't legal by R85. You can only power the compressor through the robot control system. If you have an onboard compressor you can just enable your bot in queue, though.

Nessie 02-02-2017 13:04

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCTeam2906 (Post 1639484)
We are looking at having alot of tanks on our bot this year. Can we fill our tanks before tbe match? We are hoping to complete this by using an external battery to power our on board compresser, then plug it back into the pcm (we are connecting it with anderson connectors). Is this legal or should we ask the q&a?

Let us know,
FRC Team 2906

I don't see the need for the off-board complications. Fill your air system normally then swap in a fresh battery.

orangemoore 02-02-2017 13:06

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
You cannot bypass the control system to use the compressor like others have stated but is legal to use a different battery and pre-charge your air tanks

rich2202 02-02-2017 13:09

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
Also R84 "one and only one compressor". If you have a compressor on the robot, then that is the only compressor you can use, including pre-fill.

flemdogmillion 02-02-2017 14:40

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
What about a bike pump / foot pump and a schrader fitting? can that be used to fill the tank in queue rather than enabling the robot?

cgmv123 02-02-2017 14:44

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flemdogmillion (Post 1639550)
What about a bike pump / foot pump and a schrader fitting? can that be used to fill the tank in queue rather than enabling the robot?

That would mean the ROBOT would get compressed air from a source other than the one compressor, which violates R84.

Kevin Sevcik 02-02-2017 14:59

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
I'd also note that by "another battery" that should be another legal FRC battery, through a standard battery connector, etc.

The whole point of this portion of the pneumatics rules is to mostly limit the stored power on the robot to what's supplied by the ONE legal battery powering the ONE legal compressor. Onboard or offboard compressor, airing up your robot should be exactly like it was running an onboard compressor on the field during a match. Ask yourself if what you're doing is something that'd be legal during a match, minus size/weight constraints for an off-board compressor. If it's not legal during a match, it's not legal in your pit in prep for a match.

This means you should think about your air consumption and how well your system would work with a 6 minute field timeout between Finals matches. If you can't fill your tanks from empty or end of match level to full enough in 5 minutes, you're using too much air.

Al Skierkiewicz 02-02-2017 15:12

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
As others have stated, charging your pneumatic system with anything other than that provided by the rules could result in any decision by event Chief volunteers. If stored air is important to your strategy then do not risk it by charging your system by any method other than that provided in the robot rules.

JamesCH95 02-02-2017 16:02

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
RTM ::rtm::

Quote:

R43. Non-electrical sources of energy used by the ROBOT, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall
come only from the following sources:
A. compressed air stored in the pneumatic system that has been charged in compliance
with R84 and R85,

B. a change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity,
C. storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts,
D. closed-loop COTS pneumatic (gas) shocks, and
E. air-filled (pneumatic) wheels.
Quote:

R84. Compressed air on the ROBOT must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor
specifications must not exceed nominal 1.10 cfm (~519 cm3/s) flow rate @ 12VDC.
R85. The compressor (permitted per R84) may be located off-board the ROBOT, however the
compressor must still be controlled and powered by the ROBOT when used.
Code:

The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the
ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in storage tanks on the
ROBOT provided the additional restrictions of R90 are met.
The intent of this rule is to permit teams to take advantage of the weight
savings associated with keeping the compressor off-board. However,
using the compressor off-board of the ROBOT does NOT permit noncompliance
with any other applicable rules.


Rules are unambiguous on this topic.

DonRotolo 02-02-2017 20:00

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCH95 (Post 1639596)
Rules are unambiguous on this topic.

I think "one and only one compressor" is ambiguous and so we're going to use 3 or 4 of them. And a foot pump.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ctt956 02-02-2017 20:09

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orangemoore (Post 1639500)
You cannot bypass the control system to use the compressor like others have stated but is legal to use a different battery and pre-charge your air tanks

You can only use a different legal battery if it is the only battery in the robot, powering it as it would be during a match. As others have said, this should be done before you swap batteries.

Cory 02-02-2017 21:52

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
FIRST ought to just supply an air compressor field side at the queue which each team can use to fill their tanks. This would solve what is always a problem every year with teams misunderstanding the rules. Would cost $300 per field.

D_Price 02-02-2017 22:29

Re: Pre-filling stored air
 
I second this notion. Even though its not going to happen this year. *crosses fingers*


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1639721)
FIRST ought to just supply an air compressor field side at the queue which each team can use to fill their tanks. This would solve what is always a problem every year with teams misunderstanding the rules. Would cost $300 per field.



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