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-   -   Most Common Foul (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154789)

Darkseer54 05-02-2017 17:59

Most Common Foul
 
Every year has its fouls that get called almost every match. What foul do you expect to be called most often this year? Why do you expect teams to get called on it?

CalTran 05-02-2017 18:05

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Probably jumping off the airship, tbh.

6101 Robert 05-02-2017 18:08

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Smart teams will use the rule that you cannot manipulate 2 gears at a time to their advantage. I predict this will be a fairly common foul for unwary teams.

Cothron Theiss 05-02-2017 18:15

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 6101 Robert (Post 1640771)
Smart teams will use the rule that you cannot manipulate 2 gears at a time to their advantage. I predict this will be a fairly common foul for unwary teams.

What do you mean by this?

SenorZ 05-02-2017 18:17

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 6101 Robert (Post 1640771)
Smart teams will use the rule that you cannot manipulate 2 gears at a time to their advantage. I predict this will be a fairly common foul for unwary teams.

Smarter teams will just pick up gears their opponents leave lying around in an attempt to draw fouls.

I think retrieval zone violations will be big.

JesseK 05-02-2017 18:21

Re: Most Common Foul
 
G09 may not be the most common, but it will be called more than in prior years. Contributing factors: mostly-open field; many robots with rollers across open frames; plenty of blind spots on the field for short robots; call will depend on who 'initiates' contact.

EricH 05-02-2017 22:23

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 6101 Robert (Post 1640771)
Smart teams will use the rule that you cannot manipulate 2 gears at a time to their advantage. I predict this will be a fairly common foul for unwary teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss (Post 1640776)
What do you mean by this?

Smart teams will also realize what C08 means if they try that. They're smart because they think through their proposed strategies.

rich2202 05-02-2017 23:35

Re: Most Common Foul
 
A few years ago, there was an autonomus where a lot of robots were bashing into the Alliance Wall.

This year, I can see a lot of them bashing into the Airship. I wonder if G15-H will be extended to cover that to protect the Pilots.

pandamonium 06-02-2017 12:19

Re: Most Common Foul
 
G20 violations on both robots trying to play defense and robots trying to acquire one last gear. A robot touching the rope can pretty much block off a very large chunk of area and 55 points is a huge penalty.

pmattin5459 06-02-2017 22:39

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich2202 (Post 1640915)
A few years ago, there was an autonomus where a lot of robots were bashing into the Alliance Wall.

This year, I can see a lot of them bashing into the Airship. I wonder if G15-H will be extended to cover that to protect the Pilots.

FIRST is not putting people in the middle of the field if they're in an airship that isn't very robust. I doubt that bashing the airship will accomplish anything.

Koko Ed 07-02-2017 06:25

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1640770)
Probably jumping off the airship, tbh.

I bet the average for week one will be somewhere between 15 to 20 of them.

BBaltrusch 09-02-2017 22:44

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko Ed (Post 1641495)
I bet the average for week one will be somewhere between 15 to 20 of them.

If you get a yellow early in the event and later have a match where you earn 0 RP, should you intentionally get another yellow at the end to clear it? Seems like a valid strategy at first glance. I asked a ref about this once during the volunteer lunch and she said she'd strongly consider giving another card for a strategic foul. If you're thinking about doing this ask your head ref first.

Cothron Theiss 09-02-2017 22:53

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch (Post 1642809)
If you get a yellow early in the event and later have a match where you earn 0 RP, should you intentionally get another yellow at the end to clear it? Seems like a valid strategy at first glance. I asked a ref about this once during the volunteer lunch and she said she'd strongly consider giving another card for a strategic foul. If you're thinking about doing this ask your head ref first.

What? There is so much wrong with this. Why would you ever intentionally get a yellow card?

CalTran 09-02-2017 23:14

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch (Post 1642809)
If you get a yellow early in the event and later have a match where you earn 0 RP, should you intentionally get another yellow at the end to clear it? Seems like a valid strategy at first glance. I asked a ref about this once during the volunteer lunch and she said she'd strongly consider giving another card for a strategic foul. If you're thinking about doing this ask your head ref first.

The first yellow is probably questionable enough when looking at teams to pick. But the odds of picking a team with 2-3+ yellow cards? I'd rather not risk that, no matter what "justification" you try to tell me.

Also I don't even think a red card "clears" like you think it would; the match still counts against your average - it just counts as a zero. As in it will bring your average down no matter what.

NShep98 09-02-2017 23:15

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch (Post 1642809)
If you get a yellow early in the event and later have a match where you earn 0 RP, should you intentionally get another yellow at the end to clear it? Seems like a valid strategy at first glance. I asked a ref about this once during the volunteer lunch and she said she'd strongly consider giving another card for a strategic foul. If you're thinking about doing this ask your head ref first.

Is clearing a yellow card like that even a thing? I thought you'd kinda just keep getting red cards after that.

Besides that, Why?

CalTran 09-02-2017 23:19

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NShep98 (Post 1642824)
Is clearing a yellow card like that even a thing? I thought you'd kinda just keep getting red cards after that.

Besides that, Why?

Additional yellows do translate to red cards for the match, and I assume still a persisting yellow card. Never seen it happen though, to be honest. And I'd prefer to keep it that way too.

Cothron Theiss 09-02-2017 23:22

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1642826)
Additional yellows do translate to red cards for the match, and I assume still a persisting yellow card. Never seen it happen though, to be honest. And I'd prefer to keep it that way too.

I had to do it at an off-season this past year. One team on the Elimination Alliance got a yellow card in their first match of the Quarters, then a different team on the Alliance got another yellow during the semi's. That was not a fun conversation, telling them their whole Alliance was disqualified.

CalTran 09-02-2017 23:34

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss (Post 1642828)
I had to do it at an off-season this past year. One team on the Elimination Alliance got a yellow card in their first match of the Quarters, then a different team on the Alliance got another yellow during the semi's. That was not a fun conversation, telling them their whole Alliance was disqualified.

I meant during qualifications.

NShep98 10-02-2017 00:03

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1642826)
Additional yellows do translate to red cards for the match, and I assume still a persisting yellow card. Never seen it happen though, to be honest. And I'd prefer to keep it that way too.

I'm aware of the progression from yellow to red cards, but I don't believe getting a red card somehow "resets" you back to a blank slate, nor do I care to find out.

ollien 10-02-2017 00:05

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NShep98 (Post 1642832)
I'm aware of the progression from yellow to red cards, but I don't believe getting a red card somehow "resets" you back to a blank slate, nor do I care to find out.

They don't. Emphasis mine.

Quote:

YELLOW CARDS are additive, meaning that a second YELLOW CARD is automatically converted to a RED CARD. A Team is issued a RED CARD for any subsequent incident in which they receive an additional YELLOW CARD, including earning a second YELLOW CARD during a single MATCH.

scca229 10-02-2017 00:45

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Once you have a yellow in Quals, you will continue to start every match thereafter with a yellow through Quals. An additional yellow in a match converts to a red (Head Ref will hold both cards to show it is a conversion), and the next match will start with a yellow again.

Cards only reset when transitioning from Quals to Playoffs.

RoboChair 10-02-2017 03:12

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Dropping the Lift Handle out the port hole and then reaching after it to try and catch it will net you a yellow card. It will happen a lot. I hope I am wrong.

ollien 10-02-2017 03:47

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1642853)
Dropping the Lift Handle out the port hole and then reaching after it to try and catch it will net you a yellow card. It will happen a lot. I hope I am wrong.

I totally understand why this is a safety issue, I just wish the system was better designed such that this didn't happen. Maybe a backup rope that's tied to the lift handle, and is held in the airship by a guide, almost like those pen-chains they have at banks. That way you could just pull on this rope to get your handle back.

Sigh Such is life.

ratdude747 10-02-2017 07:10

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss (Post 1642828)
I had to do it at an off-season this past year. One team on the Elimination Alliance got a yellow card in their first match of the Quarters, then a different team on the Alliance got another yellow during the semi's. That was not a fun conversation, telling them their whole Alliance was disqualified.

I remember that :(

IIRC both were for walking/jumping over defenses... Worst part was that it was right before their tiebreaker match, which resulted in the match to be played having to be "bypassed" (FMS magic) as neither alliance wanted to play a match where the outcome was pre-determined (since red cards outside of a match apply to the next match, not the match last played). Sad situation, but the rules are the rules.

BBaltrusch 10-02-2017 19:47

Re: Most Common Foul
 
My mistake on the clearing of yellow cards. I have to admit I don't look at the card rules as much as others as we try really hard not to need them.

EricH 10-02-2017 19:59

Re: Most Common Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BBaltrusch (Post 1643148)
My mistake on the clearing of yellow cards. I have to admit I don't look at the card rules as much as others as we try really hard not to need them.

I must say that that's one of the best reasons I've ever heard for NOT reading part of the rules...

@ratdude: Had the same thing at an offseason, except it was the same team, on either end of a timeout. Same person from that team, too, I think. Though I should point out that for 2017, cards apply to the current (or just-completed) match--that is, the one that you're on the field for.


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