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-   -   What wheel to use for the flywheel (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154981)

SenorZ 09-02-2017 12:01

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Two banebots blue wheels, 3-7/8", seem to have good inertia. And they grip well. Only issue is the already talked about "film" build up on the wheels after shooting a lot of fuel.

Varying the compression even an eighth of an inch had a big impact, so make sure you're not using a narrow flywheel. The holes in the fuel will ruin all your planning.

Fusion_Clint 09-02-2017 12:32

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
This is what we are using. https://www.mcmaster.com/#2497k16/=16a565k

ShIfTiNgBoT 09-02-2017 12:44

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorZ (Post 1642489)
Varying the compression even an eighth of an inch had a big impact, so make sure you're not using a narrow flywheel. The holes in the fuel will ruin all your planning.

Or conversely, not enough compression mixed with small wheels will be ruined by the holes.

lamk 09-02-2017 15:12

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Didn't realize there are two type of 4"wheel with 50a durometer
I order the stealth wheel and then see people talking about the compliant wheel.
Does anybody know how different they are
Should I buy the compliant wheel instead

Cothron Theiss 09-02-2017 15:21

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lamk (Post 1642610)
Didn't realize there are two type of 4"wheel with 50a durometer
I order the stealth wheel and then see people talking about the compliant wheel.
Does anybody know how different they are
Should I buy the compliant wheel instead

There is a world of difference. The stealth wheels, while great for quick intakes and grippiness, have a lower moment of inertia and are not at all compliant. I would not suggest using stealth wheels as your shooter wheels.

Type 09-02-2017 15:24

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
My team actually have been using 4" x 2" Colsons, we filed the wheel down so that it wasn't crowned anymore and we have had amazing consistency so far.

Sperkowsky 09-02-2017 16:20

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss (Post 1642617)
There is a world of difference. The stealth wheels, while great for quick intakes and grippiness, have a lower moment of inertia and are not at all compliant. I would not suggest using stealth wheels as your shooter wheels.

Stealth wheels make great shooter wheels. Better than compliant wheels in our testing. We were easily able to shoot vertically upwards of 14ft vertically

waialua359 09-02-2017 16:34

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Our team has had a 90% built robot for the past 1 1/2 weeks.
We tried many things from weight of flywheel, adjustments to speed, varying the metering feeder wheels, indexing of balls, and shooter width.
We also incorporated the use of a PID using the VEXPro Versa gearbox with an integrated encoder using a 2-775 Pro setup.

The biggest factor we are finding are orientation of the balls as it enters our metering wheel and then shooter. Orient them all the same way and we will hit 29 of 30 shots. Orient them another way and we will miss practically all of them.

So how do we account for it?

Well, thats today and tomorrow's adjustment.:rolleyes:
If that doesnt work, we will live with what we have.

If we slow things down a bit, we can achieve close to 80% accuracy.
If we shoot as fast as possible, we can shoot 30 to 35 balls in less than 5 seconds, making 50-60% of the shots.

Hopefully, with our adjustments today, we can shoot fast but achieve a much higher success rate.
If we can do that, we plan to share it with all of our Hawaiian friends here. :)

Jon Stratis 09-02-2017 16:38

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1642671)
Stealth wheels make great shooter wheels. Better than compliant wheels in our testing. We were easily able to shoot vertically upwards of 14ft vertically

We hit the 19ft ceiling in our shop shooting with the compliant wheels when we first ran them (CIM motor, 1:1 chain driven) at full power. We dialed it way back for further testing :)

cadandcookies 09-02-2017 17:14

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1642671)
Stealth wheels make great shooter wheels. Better than compliant wheels in our testing. We were easily able to shoot vertically upwards of 14ft vertically

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1642682)
We hit the 19ft ceiling in our shop shooting with the compliant wheels when we first ran them (CIM motor, 1:1 chain driven) at full power. We dialed it way back for further testing :)

It's almost like there might be more factors than wheel type when it comes to shooters.

Seriously though, I'm pretty confident we'll see effective shooters using a variety of wheel types. I am not confident that there is an "in general" superior shooter wheel when it comes to COTS parts. So many factors such as compression, feeding, and style of shooter will affect what characteristics you're looking for in your shooter wheel.

gpetilli 09-02-2017 17:31

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1642680)
Our team has had a 90% built robot for the past 1 1/2 weeks.
We tried many things from weight of flywheel, adjustments to speed, varying the metering feeder wheels, indexing of balls, and shooter width.
We also incorporated the use of a PID using the VEXPro Versa gearbox with an integrated encoder using a 2-775 Pro setup.

The biggest factor we are finding are orientation of the balls as it enters our metering wheel and then shooter. Orient them all the same way and we will hit 29 of 30 shots. Orient them another way and we will miss practically all of them.

So how do we account for it?

Well, thats today and tomorrow's adjustment.:rolleyes:
If that doesnt work, we will live with what we have.

If we slow things down a bit, we can achieve close to 80% accuracy.
If we shoot as fast as possible, we can shoot 30 to 35 balls in less than 5 seconds, making 50-60% of the shots.

Hopefully, with our adjustments today, we can shoot fast but achieve a much higher success rate.
If we can do that, we plan to share it with all of our Hawaiian friends here. :)

I totally agree that you need to control how the ball enters the flywheel.

That said, I have a few specific questions:
1) what wheel are you using?
2) what compression are you targeting?
3) what exactly do you mean by a "metering" wheel? (I have a guess)

waialua359 09-02-2017 17:35

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gpetilli (Post 1642707)
I totally agree that you need to control how the ball enters the flywheel.

That said, I have a few specific questions:
1) what wheel are you using? Banebot Green wheels 2 7/8" diameter
2) what compression are you targeting? I failed to mention earlier that we have tried various compressions. We mounted our shooter wheel to the frame with aluminum blocks that allows us to easily swap out different widths adjusting the compression. We vary them by 1/8".
3) what exactly do you mean by a "metering" wheel? (I have a guess)

Similar to our flywheel that feeds balls into the shooter from the hopper.

Ty Tremblay 09-02-2017 17:54

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1642680)

The biggest factor we are finding are orientation of the balls as it enters our metering wheel and then shooter. Orient them all the same way and we will hit 29 of 30 shots. Orient them another way and we will miss practically all of them.

What do you mean by the orientation of the balls? Aren't they pretty close to spherically symmetric?

Cothron Theiss 09-02-2017 17:58

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1642671)
Stealth wheels make great shooter wheels. Better than compliant wheels in our testing. We were easily able to shoot vertically upwards of 14ft vertically

I agree. Just about any wheel can be used with success if the rest of the system is good. But if the OP is having issues with Colsons, I doubt stealth wheels will be better. Grnated, switching to compliant wheels probably won't make all their shooter problems go away either, but compliant wheels may be a better wheel for the rest of their setup than Colsons or stealth wheels.

waialua359 09-02-2017 18:21

Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay (Post 1642715)
What do you mean by the orientation of the balls? Aren't they pretty close to spherically symmetric?

For a specific set of adjustments we tried to make to optimize success rate, we find that when the seams of the ball are perpendicular to the shooter wheel, it is much more consistent than lined up horizontally.
Our shot up close can change by as much as 2ft as well as varying velocity and arc path.


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