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-   -   pic: 3641 Teaser (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155215)

SerpentEagle 12-02-2017 19:54

pic: 3641 Teaser
 

TheNerdJedi 12-02-2017 19:55

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Well I'm excited to see that 1 RP Auton for sure.
It looks like you guys have a turret that just streams out balls.

Jcarbon 12-02-2017 20:11

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Always exciting to see what the Toasters are cooking up! Looking forward to that 12 gear auton! ;)

MrRiedemanJACC 12-02-2017 20:26

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Can't wait to see this in person in Ann Arbor!!

gorrilla 12-02-2017 21:09

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
How can you get 1rp In auto?

Brian Maher 12-02-2017 21:11

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Looks neat. I'm looking forward to see it in action!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1643939)
How can you get 1rp In auto?

Score 40 fuel in the high goal after loading up at a hopper.

gorrilla 12-02-2017 21:28

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Maher (Post 1643940)


Score 40 fuel in the high goal after loading up at a hopper.

I don't think there is enough time to do that.

cad321 12-02-2017 21:34

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1643947)
I don't think there is enough time to do that.

It all depends how you've designed your robot. I'm extremely confident that it is possible. By no means will every team be able to pull it off, but if you designed with a 40kpa auto in mind, it is most definitely possible.

gorrilla 12-02-2017 21:56

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cad321 (Post 1643950)
It all depends how you've designed your robot. I'm extremely confident that it is possible. By no means will every team be able to pull it off, but if you designed with a 40kpa auto in mind, it is most definitely possible.

It's gonna take minimum 8 seconds just to count the balls. That leaves just 7 seconds to drive to the hopper and get the balls, I will be extremely surprised if anyone manages it solo

Chris is me 12-02-2017 23:23

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1643968)
It's gonna take minimum 8 seconds just to count the balls. That leaves just 7 seconds to drive to the hopper and get the balls, I will be extremely surprised if anyone manages it solo

You don't have to have scored all 40 balls for it to start counting, you just need to start scoring by second 7. There is a hopper located roughly 10 feet away from a legal starting point very close to the goal. This is clearly a possible task this year, one that I expect several top tier robots to have designed around.

Keep in mind you can also score your starting 10, then go get 30 more while those are counting...

gorrilla 12-02-2017 23:39

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1644009)
You don't have to have scored all 40 balls for it to start counting, you just need to start scoring by second 7. There is a hopper located roughly 10 feet away from a legal starting point very close to the goal. This is clearly a possible task this year, one that I expect several top tier robots to have designed around.

Like I said it will be extremely shocking to see one team do it in auto. At 90% accuracy you would need to shoot 45 balls in 15 seconds, roughly 3bps for the entire auto period, Not accounting for any drive time

If you take 5 seconds to drive, get the balls, and re-align and begin shooting you are looking at under 10 seconds to shoot 45 balls and make every single one. Which now leaves you with almost the exact time that it takes for the boiler to count all the balls.

Basel A 12-02-2017 23:41

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644017)
Like I said it will be extremely shocking to see one team do it in auto. At 90% accuracy you would need to shoot 45 balls in 15 seconds, roughly 3bps for the entire auto period, Not accounting for any drive time

If you take 5 seconds to drive, get the balls, and re-align and begin shooting you are looking at under 10 seconds to shoot 45 balls and make every single one. Which now leaves you with almost the exact time that it takes for the boiler to count all the balls.

It's possible enough that great teams will make it happen.

gorrilla 12-02-2017 23:46

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basel A (Post 1644020)
It's possible enough that great teams will make it happen.

I'll believe it when I see it. I still stand by that a solo robot won't be able to pull it off

Harshizzle 12-02-2017 23:48

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
I would say that the 40 fuel auton is slightly easier than the 2 ball auto was last year, and we saw more than a few teams get that done.

ollien 12-02-2017 23:50

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harshizzle (Post 1644023)
I would say that the 40 fuel auton is slightly easier than the 2 ball auto was last year, and we saw more than a few teams get that done.

I would argue that the difference between 40 fuel auton and 2 ball is that 2 ball could be done without any major mechanical design changes. This might require that, depending on how your robot is already setup.

jdunston94 13-02-2017 00:12

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644017)
Like I said it will be extremely shocking to see one team do it in auto. At 90% accuracy you would need to shoot 45 balls in 15 seconds, roughly 3bps for the entire auto period, Not accounting for any drive time

If you take 5 seconds to drive, get the balls, and re-align and begin shooting you are looking at under 10 seconds to shoot 45 balls and make every single one. Which now leaves you with almost the exact time that it takes for the boiler to count all the balls.

who said you ever have to realign?

TDav540 13-02-2017 01:00

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
To be fair, there's also something to be said for score 30-35 kPA, even if you don't get all forty. The benefit of the auton gear is 20 points. If you can beat that with balls, especially if your alliance can't get the third auton gear, then I think you come out ahead.

I also think that, at some of the speeds teams will be shooting, firing 40+ balls in the required timeframe will not be much of a challenge.

Jetweb 13-02-2017 01:58

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644022)
I'll believe it when I see it. I still stand by that a solo robot won't be able to pull it off

40 kph autos will be done many times this season by many teams, I'd bet you'll see it done week one. The real trick is being efficient enough to score a gear as well....

waialua359 13-02-2017 02:44

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetweb (Post 1644045)
40 kph autos will be done many times this season by many teams, I'd bet you'll see it done week one. The real trick is being efficient enough to score a gear as well....

Week 1 maybe for an alliance but solo? I think it'll be a rare occurrence. I hope I'm wrong.

apm4242 13-02-2017 09:00

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
video or it didn't happen :)

Siri 13-02-2017 09:53

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ollien (Post 1644024)
I would argue that the difference between 40 fuel auton and 2 ball is that 2 ball could be done without any major mechanical design changes. This might require that, depending on how your robot is already setup.

The vast majority of teams who consistently pull off complex autos in any year start the second week or so of build season knowing that they'll try to design that way. Some years pick up a few more or a few less on the fringes later on based on redesign difficultly, but that isn't the main driver behind the numbers. The task in any year is high-level enough that the pool of teams who can accomplish it consistently and the pool that can predict it early will naturally overlap quite heavily.

gorrilla 13-02-2017 10:49

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetweb (Post 1644045)
40 kph autos will be done many times this season by many teams, I'd bet you'll see it done week one. The real trick is being efficient enough to score a gear as well....

Ill believe it when I see it

Camren 13-02-2017 14:37

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
flashbacks to 2012.

EricLeifermann 13-02-2017 14:53

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1643968)
It's gonna take minimum 8 seconds just to count the balls. That leaves just 7 seconds to drive to the hopper and get the balls, I will be extremely surprised if anyone manages it solo


The manual says it averages 5 ball/sec scoring. That means that it has so be faster than that. So an average of 8 seconds to count 40 balls, but if the boiler is full and the counter is operating at max output I bet its a few seconds faster.

gorrilla 13-02-2017 14:56

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1644319)
The manual says it averages 5 ball/sec scoring. That means that it has so be faster than that. So an average of 8 seconds to count 40 balls, but if the boiler is full and the counter is operating at max output I bet its a few seconds faster.

Possibly, but I just don't see it happening

EricLeifermann 13-02-2017 14:59

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644321)
Possibly, but I just don't see it happening

One of our prototype shooters emptied 50 balls in about 3 seconds.... Our final prototype was seeing 80% accuracy. If a team combined those 2 that's 40 balls in the high boiler in 3 seconds..... Seems pretty achievable to me.

Chris is me 13-02-2017 15:01

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644321)
Possibly, but I just don't see it happening

You've made it quite clear that you don't think this is going to happen.Why do you think people are responding with reasonable confidence that this will be a part of the game? It's not just a gut feeling. Of the people that have posted reasons for a response, do you have anything to respond to them with other than stating your disagreement?

You don't need to repeatedly post with variants of "I don't think this will happen", with nothing else added to the post. You've made that post already; we're aware that's what you think.

Peyton Yeung 13-02-2017 15:03

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1644322)
One of our prototype shooters emptied 50 balls in about 3 seconds.... Our final prototype was seeing 80% accuracy. If a team combined those 2 that's 40 balls in the high boiler in 3 seconds..... Seems pretty achievable to me.

And this is coming from a team that had a three tote and three can auto. The moment you think something isn't achievable a team like Wave will show up and do it.

Brian Maher 13-02-2017 15:18

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
I threw together a simple spreadsheet calculator to estimate timing of auto scoring so people can get a sense for how feasible complex auto modes are.

If arriving at the hopper and loading can be done sufficiently quickly, with a high-volume shooter, a 40 high goal auto is possible but difficult.

EricLeifermann 13-02-2017 15:24

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Maher (Post 1644330)
I threw together a simple spreadsheet calculator to estimate timing of auto scoring so people can get a sense for how feasible complex auto modes are.

If arriving at the hopper and loading can be done sufficiently quickly, with a high-volume shooter, a 40 high goal auto is possible but difficult.

Thanks for posting the spreadsheet.

Even if the 40 don't get counted if 30 fuel get counted it is a wash with scoring a gear, as you've scored 20 more points in fuel than you would in tele, just like starting a rotor in auto scores 20 more points that it does in tele. Plus you're also 10 KPA closer to that RP and 10 KPA should easily be 1 robots worth of fuel.

gorrilla 13-02-2017 15:33

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1644324)

You don't need to repeatedly post with variants of "I don't think this will happen", with nothing else added to the post. You've made that post already; we're aware that's what you think.

Why the attitude? I wasn't aware that CD had a Police force lol

Peyton Yeung 13-02-2017 15:41

Re: pic: 3641 Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 1644340)
Why the attitude? I wasn't aware that CD had a Police force lol

I think he is just getting flustered because this is a discussion board and repeating a comment like yours doesn't add to the discussion as the information in your post has already been shared in this thread.


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