robot touching a stack of bins
 

say there are 3 stacks of 7 bins on YOUR carpet, and YOUR robot is touching one of the bins in one of the stacks...does the entire stack not count (7 bins) or does only the one bin that the robot is touching not count (and the other 6 do)?

the stack does not count, all of it

The whole stack is worth zero. Here is the rule:

SC8 When determining the base score for the alliance, the referees will evaluate the containers
with the following criteria:

A container “in” a Scoring Zone is worth one point. A container will be determined
to be “in” a scoring zone if at least some part of the container is touching the colored
carpet that defines a scoring zone or is supported exclusively by:
· Other containers in that zone;
· An opponent’s robot.

All containers in the tallest stack located in the scoring zone (the “multiplier stack”)
are worth zero points. Containers in additional stacks of the same height will be
scored normally;

!!!!!!!If ANY part of your own alliance’s robots are in contact with ANY container in a
stack (alone or in a multi-container stack), ALL containers in that stack will be worth
zero points;

Opponent robots in contact with containers in the alliance scoring zone will not affect
the determination of the base score;

A container may touch the field border.

thank you Bduggan04 that was a very good answer.

so say if you had the 3 different stacks each 7 tubs high and say one of the robot is touching one of the stacks, that stack would not qualify as the multiplier, but can it be counted as the base scoring?

No, thats what the rules above say. Read the rule that starts with the multiple !s.

If you are touching it AT ALL then it counts fornothing

Cory

alright thanks ;)

What if..
 

Going to stir things up with this one,

What if you have two stacks of 6 with another box on top of box and the robot is only touching the highest box? Do both stacks of 6 count or only 1? :-)

Here's a situation that follows along the the lines of this discussion.

According to SC8, a container is in the scoring zone if it meets these criteria:
So, if an opponent is holding a crate, it can count as a scorable crate. Note that it doesn't differentiate where the box is held, or where the robot is, but the fact that it is entirely supported by the opponent robot makes it worth points.

According to SC9,
The way that I read it, because a crate being held by the opponent robot can be counted as being in the scoring zone, it can also be counted as a stack. So, if an opponent, anywhere on the field, is carrying a crate 20' in the air at the end of the game, that's a 20' stack for your alliance (15.74 SHU=16x multiplier)!

Ahhh! Loopholes! I feel sorry for FIRST...

I would think the opposing robot holding it would only count if they were in your scoring zone.

I would have thought it only counted if the opponent robot is in your scoring zone, or if the box was in the "volume" of your scoring zone. The first few times I read it, that's what I assumed. However, the rule only says that it is entirely supported by the opponent robot for it to count.

I think it's just if the opponent is holding it inside your scoring zone. Otherwise, that would be a huge loophole. Say someone was trying to get one extra bin before ending on the top of their 13 stack. But time runs out, they're not touching their bins, and it's being held at a height of 15 bins. Suddenly you get that multiplier of 15? I don't know, but that seems weird.

Maybe they just forgot to retype "in that zone" after the opponents thing

See Team Update #1. This question is answered in the clarified version of Rule SC8.

-dave

The updated SC8 and SC9 still allows a opponent carried crate to be counted as a stack.

However, the update does mean that the opponent must be "in" your scoring zone. I think this means they are touching your colored carpet.

It would make a very interresting opportunity for pushing up scores if two tall-arm robots are on opposing sides and decide to team up to make huge points for each other. Of course, one side will receive more benefit than the other, but a huge multiplier might to push up your average might be worth it.

JTH, I am not sure if lifting a crate in your opponent's zone rases the stack height. I asked FIRST this question, and basically got back snide comments about my questions being convoluted and me abusing the forums. I asked FIRST:

and they replied via email: This lead me to believe that stacks would be measured form the lowest bin, not from the ground, but nowhere in the rules does it say where stacks are measured from. I replied to the email they sent me asking if the height was measured from the bottom container, and they replied:Has anyone managed to get a real answer on this issue?

When I read "Opponent robot contact with a stack will not affect multiplier stack eligibility." in SC9, it means that the fact that an opponent is holding a crate while it is "in" the scoring zone does not make it ineligible to be a stack. So, a "crate supported exclusively" by an opponent robot in your scoring zone is eligible to be counted as either 1 point (per SC8) or as a stack (per first bullet of SC9).

The example crate 20' in the air supported entirely by the opponent robot also can be counted either as 1 point or as a stack. More than likely, it would be the tallest stack, regardless of the fact that it's only 1 crate. Therefore, it should be measured to find the whole SHU to determine your mulitplier.

At least, that's the way that I interpret the rules as written right now. In my pre-Update1 note on the forums, I specifically suggested that the wording of SC9 to be changed to not allow that. While Update 1 did take on my suggestion to change SC8 (the opponent anywhere on the field), it still did not change SC9 in terms of this matter.

Of course, I'm also assuming the use of the SHU measuring device will be from the floor, not from a particular part of the crate, as you seem to imply.

That is how I read the rule as well, but FIRST's flippant answer implied otherwise.

Have you seen the new SC8 in update 3?

I think this confirms my concern...

Yup. It looks like that is a definate loophole. I wonder how many teams will design around that?

Definitely not a loophole. No no definitely not. Definitely well thought through. See this thread, message 15. Definitely thought through. Wapner comes on at 3:30. Definitely. 494 toothpicks...

-dave