Team Update #1 is out
 

Re: Team Update #1 is out
 

All 22 beautiful pages:D .

Great! It explains many of the common questions asked on CD.. and the confusions with some of the rules should be cleared up.

That was probably the most useless team update ever.
When can we expect the 100+ questions on the official forums to be answered?

What???? :confused: SHUs are rounded down now? That means turning a bin upside-down does nothing!

It possibly hinders a team from stacking on top of that. That is, if they have a stacking bot that is incapable of either picking something up upside-down or turning something upside-down.

I did think it funny when he said that they were rounded up... 'He' being the funny skinny guy who did mostly all the talking at the unveiling. His name escapes me at the moment.

I don't think they ever said the SHU's were rounded up. If I remember correctly, they said that by turning a box upside down, it is enough to raise the stack height into the next unit on the measuring pole.

You mean Woodie Flowers. Here's a bio: http://www.usfirst.org/about/bio_flowers.htm

At the kickoff, I assumed that it was rounded up, considering that Woody went through that whole deal with the measuring stick.

Now that it is rounded down, teams can't get a free 2x multiplier by flipping a crate.


Darn. :(

Well they had an upside-down on top in the 4mb video they put out, it didn't round up. If they rounded up, that also means a single bin (15-3/4) would be worth 2 SHUs (which are 14-3/4).

Unfortunately, they didn't answer many of the questions that we wanted them to answer. All we can do is wait then for the next update... :/

i remember that during the kickoff with woodie and the measure stick and what not... that he said specifically that any bin that crossed into the scoring height of the next bin counts as achieving the height into which it crossed. Therefore 1 box flipped on its side= 2x multiplier. we were kinda counting on that as a free way to double our score but guess its out of the picture now...:mad:

Didn't it always round down?

That is, assuming that you can't have a stack of zero whilst there are bins in your scoring zone.

<14.75" = 1
14.75"-29.50" = 2
29.50"-44.25" = 3
etc.

So, a bin tipped on its short side is >14.75" tall; potentially 2.148578379 SHUs tall. Rounded down, that's 2.

I don't see this as being a change.

Krass, thats the problem. a box tipped on its side doesnt count as two anymore. its rounded DOWN to 1. therefore one box (no matter how u tip it) is one box, one "stack" high NO.MATTER.WHAT.

1 SHU = 14 3/4 inches. 1 bin in standard position by itself is 15 3/4 high. So according to the SHU stick starting with 1, a bin would be above the 2 mark already.

Will someone clarify all of this really simply please?

Basically, a bin all by itself, in any rotation, is counted as a multiplier of one. Basically, a stack will essentially be counted by the number of bins in it, no matter if they are nested or not.

So, if you have a bin that is like 1.1 SHUs, it is just counted as 1 for a multiplier. Same if the bin is 1.9 SHUs.

saying that

<14.75" = 0
14.75"-29.50" = 1
29.50"-44.25" = 2
etc.

also means that you can't have a stack of 0, becasue there is no orientation of a box (except broken) that is less then 14.75"

:D I never knew broken was a kind of orientation.

Down to business here, all we really need confirmed is if the SHU measuring stick starts with 0 SHU or 1 SHU

Simply out, Joe must be right. If a box in normal upright orientation was two SHUs, the whole system would collapse...

and my head would explode and the world would end... well maybe not that last part. :p

I think what originally was said during the kickoff that it is like this

||
||
||
=2
||
||
||
=1 |==== |<<-Bin on side extends into the 2 scoring ||\=====/ | | zone, hence it counts for 2
|| \ / | |
|| \___/ |_____|

However, now the rules have changed so it rounds DOWN. in the team update this is underlined in bold. its my own intuition, so i would say that it indicates an important change. who knows, sanddrag may be right

I think what originally was said during the kickoff that it is like this

||
||
||
=2
||
||
||
=1 |==== |<<-Bin on side extends into the 2 scoring
||\=====/ |--------| zone, hence it counts for 2
|| \-------/ |--------|
|| \___/ |_____|

However, now the rules have changed so it rounds DOWN. in the team update this is underlined in bold. its my own intuition, so i would say that it indicates an important change. who knows, sanddrag may be right

SOrry.. other one was messed up

Unless they had a total about-face, the bottom of the stick starts at 1.
That way, a normal right side up bin reaches to just below the "2" line, a tipped bin scores 2.2, rounded to 2 as per Team Update #1, and everthing is as Woody said.

Otherwise they're nuts

obviously here, the debate is over whether or not the measuring stick starts at zero or one. im not sure, and i dont have a tape of the kickoff with me :( . in the team update, it was underlined in bold (signifying a change?), so i donno :/

Here's how it works as Woody said it. The stick starts out at 0'. When u put the first bin in the normal position it counts as one. If the second bin (or any number higher than that) is place upside down, that would go over the next line and what would've been a multiplier of 2 (using this example. could be any amount of boxes) is now a multiplier of 3. In the update, it states that if a box is placed upside down it wont affect the multiplier because it has been rounded down. So 2 boxes (1 face up, 1 face down) counts as a multiplier of 2, not 3. Woody's way was to round up if any part of the box was above the nearest hash mark on the measuring stick. I hope this clears things up. All the update does is make the scoring the opposite way that Woody said. No more is there the strategy of placing the boxes upside down and getting a 1 higher multiplier. Teams, rethink your strategies!

You keep saying you are unsure if there was a change to the rule...

There Was!

Read the original rules, then read the update. The SHU height has been lowered by 1" and the system now rounds down.


5
------------------------
4
------------------------
3
------------------------
2
------------------------
1
------------------------

Gadget, you left out the zero level. It should look like this

5------
4------
3------
2------
1------
0------ <<floor level

The height of one bin in standard position would be one inch above 1 SHU.

Like everyone else, I thought I heard Woody say that a turned up crate got you an extra SHU....

But now that I think about it, did he ever actually say that it scored the extra SHU? Or, was it more like "Notice that a crate on its side moves you into the next SHU".

Maybe his point was that if you stack enough crates on their sides (or ends), then you can eventually gain an extra SHU (I'm not bothing to do any calculation right now, so I don't know the right number)...

Just seems like the kind of challenge Woody would tend to throw out there.

Just my two cents...

Aidan
:)

That is correct according to the stick starting at 0 SHUs at floor level and rounding down. I believe Woody's explanation was wrong. (note 1 SHU =14.75" and 1 bin in standard position is 15.75" tall. 1 SHU = the height of a nested bin)

Here's my midnight math...
1 bin = 1 SHU = cannot extend into 2nd SHU
1 bin turned on end = does extend into 2nd SHU = 2 SHU's = 2.25 bins high
2 bins stacked neatly = 2 SHU's = Does not extend into 3rd SHU
2 bins top to bottom or WHATEVER = extends into 3rd SHU = 3.145 bins high = 3 SHU's
PLEASE Round 3.145 down..... I get 3 not 2

A glass even marginally, filled is a glass.

This is the way woodie explained at kickoff

NOW... (direct from the update)
Its height is measured in whole Stack Height Units (SHU) as described previously in Section 7.6. WHOLE SHU's. Sounds like you have to fill the SHU.

ONLY a full glass, is a glass.

We took something that made sense to all of us & made it confusing.

I don't think you're helping with the glasses.:D

Anywhoo, you talk about the SHU as if it were a space when I think it is only a mark, like on a ruler. :confused:

I think the glasses helped, but what ever. Heres the way its looking TO ME (I'm not saying its right).

1 box in normal position=~1.08 SHU=multiplier is rounded down to one
1 box at the tallest it can get=~1.2 SHU=multiplier is again 1
2 boxes nested=~2.08 SHU=multiplier is 2
2 boxes at the tallest you can make them=~2.4 SHU=multiplier is still two

Basically, (again this is just my opinion) youd have to have some intense stacking skills to have your multiplier not be the number of bins in the stack.

EDIT: Fixed the typo pointed out below.

Your midnight math seems to work. That looks right to me. But you mean to say 2.4 SHU=multiplier is still two right?

Folks,

Check out Dave Lavery's reply in this thread (note that he has two posts in the thread):

Dave Lavery Response

It confirms that one box is one box is one box.

Aidan
:)

P.S. -- If this wasn't the case, y=ax^2 + bx + c wouldn't hold true anymore!