Thoughts...King of the Hill
 

Hi Everyone,

I am curious, and not behalf on any one team, what people's analysis of the king of the hill strategy is. What does it gain you? Would you need to control the ramp the entire time? I'm curious what people think, if they have the time to comment on such a strategy. My own personal feelings it that it ties you to the ramp the entire match and severely limits offensive potnetial.

-Justin

I'd agree with your assesment overall. A Hing of the Hill doesn't necessarly have to sit there for the entire match... I certainly wouldn't suggest buidling a bully-bot incapable of dealing with scoring situations and adapting. That being said, it could thwart a lot of opponents if you can really stay there for the entire match. Don't expect a ton of QPs, and be prepared for some serious stress if you do it.

My personal favorite is the King of the Hill strategy. However, it does have some obvious flaws, such as the fact that your opponents are trapped on your side and your allies are trapped on your opponents side, assuming you lack a gate mechanism.

I believe that it can be made to work, but the question is, is the trade off worth it? That remains to be seen, probably until the matches.

--Petey

I agree with you, but I also believe that the 25 points will motivate many teams to try for it - some may take the entire 2 minutes to do it, while others will play the field and then do the mad dash at the end technique. In my humble opinion - the match es will be decided in the first 15 seconds and the last 15 seconds. But - what do i know I haven't witnessed a single match yet.

the king of the hill part will get interesting. the polycarbonate ground has zero friction, so sliding will happen. The only way to stay up is to keep moving. Wither that or use suction cups and afixiate your bot to the floor. I have an basic out line if you would like it about the suction cup idea. i want to know what strats you guys have for surviving the chaos!

First nothing has zero friction, second diffrent hardness of rubber comes diffrent amounts of slippage, with the hard wheelchair wheels on the top of the HDPE they slide like mad, but with a softer rubber and alot of surface area, I belive that you could some how lift your bot on it and never be pushed around, ever. Thats the type of bot that is going to win king of the hill

There's more to it than friction...
(and I'm not talking about suction cups - they slide too easily)

-Joel

not nessacarily, when supported correctly, they take alot of effort to slide.

With large extensions, a robot could potentially block the whole ramp, not limited by the 36x30 starting size.
Also, although the traction on top will be bad, the traction on the ramp is bad as well, and may be worse, as there is much less surface area.

yes, bullying the ramp will be crucial, i mean, how do u win if u are not a "low rider"?


Bad

Suction Cups = bad
 

suction cups, if done properly, could almost garentee an immovable robot.

However, this stuff is very easy to scratch, and it WILL be scrateched and all it takes is one shallow scratch and your cups don't seal...muhahahahaha

Traction has about zero to do with surface area. This is even more true when on a completely flat and smooth surface. Remember, that traction is gained by friction. And, the formula for friction is F=uN where u is the frictional constant which is determined by the materials involved and N is the normal force. There's nothing in there about surface area. You do not need a lot of surface area to have good traction. In fact, it may actually be harmful (see one of the whitepapers about it).

Matt

uh oh i can smell the whole wheel width vs traction debate coming

Re: Suction Cups = bad
 

Yep, I just tested that about an hour ago.

Suction cups + *tiny* scratch on surface = no suction
Suction cups + tiny scratch + vacuum = barely any suction

Do as you will. :)

- Katie

just F.Y.I.

The rules strictly state that there is NO use of any kind of vacume on the robot for any purpose. Also, you can't get a rubber that is too soft or otherwise it will get destroyed going up the mesh ramp.

Not true.

http://www.creationsandkeepsakes.com...php?ruleid=162
Please double-check your information before posting something like this.

- Katie

maybe...it comes down to traction like last year if you get into a pushing match. But if any of you were around for the 2000 competition....the ramp will be equally nasty if not even worse like last year. Fast robots may end up flying across and over the ramp. It 14 degrees just like the Ski-Jump Ramps on the Royal Navy's Invincible -class aircraft carriers.

I concur 100%. The first 15 seconds will determine who wins for the round, and the last 15 seconds will determine, by how much.

yeah, the mad dash for the ramp in the end like in 2000 and whoever knocks the most bins over has a better chance of winning. You'll probably have at least a stack height unit of 2.

whoa whoa- a lot of you are forgetting the bars... Gatekeepers would be very ineffective if they didn't block the ramp and both bars-

Yeah, I'll pass that along to the people that use them to move heavy glass :rolleyes: .

Touche...

Re: Re: Suction Cups = bad
 

If that isn't farther from the truth. If you use the right stuff, you will be golden. We have been testing, and found something that can hold w/ a very rough piece of stock plastic. Just use the right surrondings, and the right thickness, and you are golden!! :]

usually those people holding up the heavy glass are not being rammed by 130 pound robots bent on being on the hill

This is where a limbo bot would become handy

not if a few bins are in the way....you have to spend time moving them....

Drill Motors
 

Every year they give us drill motors but don't let us screw into anything....Rats!!

No two persons ever read the same book. -Edmund Wilson, critic (1895-1972)

King of the hill? good tv show, not such a good idea
 

I don't think that king of the hill is the best idea. only if you have the perfect suction system, or bracing system would you be able to defend your position on top of the plastic. however, i think that the time and weight of the robot devoted to getting that extra 25 points is better spent stacking bins or stopping opponent robots from knocking down your stacks. i think that FIRST threw in the bonus 25 as a distraction from 4 bots all simultaneously running around and playing what i consider the better part of the game, where real "strategy" is needed- knocking down your opponent's stack vs. building your own. if the game is played correctly, the highest stack only needsto be around 7 high, regardless of the number of opponent bots on top of the hill. that is why i feel that the hill strategies are pointless.

how can you complain about the drill motors? o the torque, excellent for transmissions......

hey, the drills are giving us roughly 30% more power than last years!

exactly

No No No !!
 

What I ment was they give us these drill motors and won't let us screw into a surface to stay put !

IT'S A JOKE!!!

In this age, which believes that there is a short cut to everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest."
-Henry Miller, The Books in My Life

yeah i know. first is anti-destroy stuff so i never would expect such a thing.