Why can't teams retain students??
 

Every year our team hosts a few callout meetings to get students interested in joining. The turnout for these meetings are usually great for us, with about 60+ kids, but by the time the championship rolls around about 25 kids are left on the team.

So, your questions:

1. Why do the students quit throughout the year?

2. What can you do to help influence and keep students with the team?

1.) Most kids quit due to lacking interest of the program (ie they don't battle), they can't go on trips, they are kicked out for just hanging around, or they have to drop out for grades or such. Grades are more important than anything to us. We don't want their grades to drop.

2.) If kids don't want to be a part of it, they we let them go. No use having dead weight and making them do something they don't want to do.

One big reason for kids to stop coming is that you just can't possibly have all 60 students work on the robot, no matter how complicated it is. Sooner or later, some of the students will take charge, and work harder on the robot and others will feel that they don't have a place on the team.

That is why a lot of teams have a lot more groups doing things other than working on the robot, such as the web team, animation team, chairman award team, fund raising team, PR team, photographers, etc. That way, you can attract a lot of people who aren't interested in just engineerings, and expose them to the competition even though they don't really like to work on the robot.

Ken is right. Everyone wants (and needs) a job to do, to feel like they are a part of the team.

60 people watching 5-10 others do all the work isn't any fun. The meetings you have to generate interest should make a huge note that there is a lot of work to do BESIDES design and build the robot. In fact, the robot is the LEAST amount of work for many teams!

DJ--the main problem at Kokomo is the fact that everyone looks at the TKats as dorks...Most of the freshmen that come to the callout in the fall tell their friends about it, who then make fun of them. To a lot of freshmen, that's good enough reason for them to not ever go again. That's going to be the main reason at Kokomo...I still think the school needs to promote it more..if you guys had even 1/4 the amount of support that the sports teams have...I think you wouldn't lose as many people as you are now.

just my 2 cents! :p

The time commitment is also too much for some kids to handle. I've seen several leave for this reason.

Robotics isn't for everyone
 

Giving up six weeks of your life to go and build a robot is not for everyone and it take dedication and sleepless nights to truly respect and apprecaite robotics. Passion, which comes from the French word for suffering, recquires that a person gives up their sanity for six weeks, and for some people that is a hard thing to want to do. So in other words don't worry that kids are quitting because not everyone has a passion for what we do.

During my freshman and sophomore year, when RAMTECH 59 had been looking for members a good 60+ kids did show up. In total about 40 kids finally joined the team. Yet throughout the period of 6 weeks they were dropping like fly's. Came in and out as they pleased. When it got to the last 2 weeks or so, only about 10 kids and our Engineers (veterans of 59) were really working on the robot. It takes a lot of time and dedication and not everyone can put out that much....why they joined the team in the first place...I dont know....
I would have to say..the most interesting thing was watching the kids that joined the team sit around, empty trash, play cards and stuff....
I can't really think of a way to get people motivated. Other then the fact that you give them something to work on and do, so they feel like they did contribute in some way...now im on a team with about 10 kids....(Team 1077) and we still have problems getting people working. I guess on every team there are going to be kids that do not work. Everyone has their days.

It is my experience that there are basically three types of people when it comes to after school activities. The first doesn't do any, either because they don't want to or can't because of other responsibilities. The 2nd tries to be part of everything, but not because they really are interested in it, but want it for posterity or colege applications. These rarely stick around when the real work begins. The 3rd finds what they like and does it. Their dedication can vary. The first two are probably a hopeless cause. The third is just a problem of keeping them interested and fired up. Make lots of opportunities for people with different talents to get involved. Try to work with them to deal with transportation and schedule issues. If they still lose interest theres not much you can do. Not everyone is cut out for FIRST.

We have been pretty good at keeping students here. Our software team is a bunch of slackers, but other than that... Most everyone on our team works hard every night, off hand i can only think of 1 girl who doersnt activly help us inPit/Fab crew, but she DOES help elsewhere.

Keeping students
 

In order to keep students, you need to find the right ones. I, having exactly ZERO life, am the perfect candidate for a FIRST team. Throughout the school year, I'd talk about it in class rather loudly, and anyone interested usually came up to me and inquired about it. Flat out I'd tell them the commitment level. Robotics is more than just a sport or after school activity, it is a dedication for six weeks of your life. If they actually show up to more than one meeting, you generally have them hooked. Also, freshmen are extremely bad candidates on the most part. Of course, every once in a while a freshman space monkey that is truely a great person to have on the team (We are lucky enough to have such a freshman, who is almost as dedicated as I am) and these are the team captains of later on. Sophomores are a little better, but I've found that Juniors are the best. They still have another year, so they can still feel like they are learning something the first year and then contribute the next year, which is completely fine. I'm just taking the everyone likes to be important a little farther: If your students believe that in their time left at whatever high school they are in they can contribute to the team, they would be more than happy just learning the first year they are in the program. Last year was my first year, and though I actually contributed little, I am a team captain this year. Also, when someone new makes an excellent point, compliment them. If they have a good idea, make sure they know they are being credited with it. Veterans are notorious for stealing ideas from the new people, and this will drive away a good 50% of excellent students that would really enjoy the program. Just my thoughts on the subject. BTW, my AIM is therealaval so feel free to contact me.

We normally put everyone to use. We have lots of extra jobs that need to be done but no one is assigned to. Who is going to make the thousands of buttons we distribute at comps? Anyone who is bored :) We also collect 5c cans....so someone needs to sort/wash those.

We don't keep the same people doing those...we always have other jobs. We also let the freshies file the burs off the aluminum :D

Right now, we have the kids playing around with the edurobotics kit, they're rebuilding our Chuck cart, some are helping us build our field, designing parts of the bot, designing shirts, buttons...etc. They always have something to do.

I would say that the people who quit are the ones that wouldn't be very helpful if they did stay. Usually the more dedicated ones will stay in the team and will contribute a lot.

1. They quit because they are too lazy, too busy, not interested anymore, or have an attitude problem and got really mad at another team member.

2. Recruit the kind of people who will not quit :) Try to keep it interesting. Building a robot,lloking through new parts, discussing strategy, etc. is much more fun than cleaning storerooms or doing fundraising.

I've said it so many times before.


FIRST, is not only a team at BHS, it's a class.

In the class, we don't really learn, it's more of a....do the assignment type situation. We recently had to build a bridge out of spaghetti. I've been with the class for 3 years, the last two years were great, but this year has been really boring. We haven't had a chance to actually learn much of anything, and that's what classes are for, right?

See, since the 6 weeks happen to fall during 2nd semester at BHS, by the time the first semester is over, kids who have taken the class and have found themselves dissatified with the class, make the assumption, and think that FIRST is the same way, and drop the class, and as a result of that...leave the team.

Is there any other kind? :D

Anyway, we really don't have a problem with retention, we just have a problem with recruitment. Each year, we only end up with approx. 20 people interested in the team, sometimes less. From a school of over 2000, it's a very poor turnout.

we have about 17 people, in a school of about 4500. no idea why no one in the school knows about us...the district loves us, but the students don't know we exist

You wanna start something, Jimbo? :D :p


Anyway, I think our retention rate may have been a bit higher this year because we did well last season, and because we took a bunch of the rookies to an off season competition at the beginning of this year. I suppose that hyped them up. :)

We've organized the team better this year too, so all the rookies know their purpose on the team.

We are a school of approximately 1200 people

Our team started off with about 100 members at the beginning of the year. Considering the school population, it was an excellent turnout. However, as expected, this number has slowly dwindled. It rests at around 30 or so "members" and around 20 active members.

I don't know how to solve this problem...maybe it's inevitable? It is afterall impractical to have a 100 member robotics team and still expect it to function effectively. The nature of the demands from robotics requires small group teamwork.

That's not too bad...we went from 50 students down to 3 active. And 3 isnt really a team.. One of the problems is that its the last year for most of our students and a couple of them have to take a fiscal exam this friday....if you dont know what a fiscal exam is...here's a hint....the exam is 12 hours long

I am on a rookie team with 10, or 11 member, I'm not always sure. We aproached around 10 other people but they all expressed general disinterest. When we tried to recruit them we didn't know what the program involved. We hope to be able to recruit more people after we have a successful season, and some recruiting material, ex. working robot, grasp on what the program involves. I am dissapointed that I am a senior and would have very much loved to be involved in a program like this my freshman year.

Last year as a rookie team we had 10 members that worked very hard. Nobody quit. It was pretty much a group that knew everyone else in it, and was very motivated. This year, we started with 3 veterans and now have a team of about 15. You always have those that don't really seem to do much, but those that are genuinely interested can do a lot more the next year.

The key is recruiting the right people. Only a few are really going to be interested in what you are doing. As soon as being a member of the robotics team becomes a "social" thing, you get the people that talk all the time and don't show up consistently.

The "smart kids" are generally some of the best. Our team has no problem with grades. Grades are typically a reflection of motivation. If somebody is interested, and has good grades, I expect they will be a solid member of the team. Choose your team wisely. Use your core people to build the robot and fundraise, and your flaky people to do everything not as important like website, etc.

I think a team of 60, or even 40, is far too large to be managable. You just have a few people working, and the rest sitting around as already mentioned.

If you don't want people to drop out, get the right people to start with.

Our team has 7 members. Anyone whining about having 20 should feel lucky.

We are a second year team who did pretty well at our regional last year. How do we recruit new members? Anyone have good ideas?

A problem at our school is the lack of motivation, especially when they have nothing to do. Also, robotics isn't an official class here, so the students have no motivation to show up, and they eventually just leave.

The two teachers on the X-Cats ( one who is my wife ) do a FIRST recruitment drive at the beginning of the school year to get the word out to the kids about the X-Cats. We do an interview process to what kids qualify for the team. We try to get 40 kids a year and only end up losing a few due to time constraints or poor grades (if you don't keep your grades up, help with the fundraising, put in at least two hours of extra time outside of the regularly scheduled meetings, do a community service and other mandated activities you will not be able to travel and you could be asked to leave if you truly have neglected your duties). We have a chart that marks clearly how the kids are doing and kids are given a pretty good idea where they stand.
Last year out of 40 kids only 28 could travel to Florida, many because APs were so close to the Nationals. That won't be a problem this year it seems.

Retaining students
 

Though an application process is fine and all, I don't personally believe in one. We have probably about 15 really dedicated members this year, with only about 3 of us being real technical. What I've found is a democracy, though the best way to go to NOT step on anyone's toes, is NOT the best way to go. Fortunately for time's sake, unfortunately for my sake, I seem to be the only student that makes executive decisions on the team. This makes things go a lot smoother overall, but it does limit the flow of good ideas a little bit. I personally think having a "chain of command" where the most dedicated students generally make final decisions, and the other team members input to them, and the junk eventually gets sorted out and things go more smoothly. Of course, one bad decision from the dedicated students may turn into a huge problem, but that is the risk we take. Last year, when I was just a space monkey, our team spent 4 weeks designing, another week and a half building and breaking our own robot, an hour to completely mess it up, and the last three days before shipping completely rebuilding the 'bot. We ended up finishing 23rd in Regionals, and had we been a little more efficient, we could have placed a LOT higher. My point is, just generally make it known around your area and in your school. That way, the interested people who have the time will get themselves involved. There is no real way to control the amount of people on the team, because it is kind of like fate. There are a certain amount of students in your school that will get involved and be a good member of the team, and that is an uncontrollable amount. The only thing you can do is make your team known in your area so you can get as many of those people involved as possible.

our team has never really had a problem with numbers of people so far as i know, except for the animation team. i am a junior, and last year was my rookie year. last year i was the only one on the animation "team" and i spent all of my time playing around with 3DSMax. i never actually submitted anything because my laptop, which was running windows ME (bad bad bad bad bad bad bad idea :yikes: ) crashed. so this year there's at least three of us. i think the main reason that so many people left our team was because everyone came in (mostly freshmen) assuming they would be driving the robot. when they found out that there would be only 2 or 3 drivers, a handful of them quit. i suppose they were just looking for some fun without working for it. of course, the 12 people and 2 human players who want to be part of our drive team have been informed that there are four practices a week, involving setting up and tearing down the playing field every time. i suppose this was a turn-off enough to those people who just wanted a free ride. to tell youi the truth, our teacher was mad at the fact that we had 40 people at our first meeting. but freshmen will be freshmen and now we have around 30 or so, which cis good because all areas of our production have had an increase in members from last year (especially animation---yay! :D )
i think that if teams are having trouble with a lack of retention, they should be telling members even before they come to the meetings, how much work is involved. i think that videos of the team competing from the previous year (s) are a good way of showing members that, despite the work that they know they will have to be doing, it actually does result in some fun and friendly competition, even if you're not the driver. i know i've screamed myself hoarse at several competitions.....
good luck with recruiting next year, since it's kinda too late this year. but know that if people quit, it's no use trying to bring them back as they will only be counter-productive.

Thanks guys. I agree that projects designed to raise awareness are a good idea. At our first meeting this year, we had about 12 people show up. Our coach let everyone know what kind of time they'd have to put in and that turned off a lot of people (frosh mostly). Thanks for the suggestions.

I believe that FIRST is a huge time commitment. Some people don't have the time in their lives for such an event, or some are just unwilling to give up the time. During the last season, I went from working 30 hours a week at a local grocery store to working 5 - 10 hours. I guess sometimes it just depends on availability of time in your life and how you are willing to schedule it.

Some people appreciate some time away from of this- and for some, this is their hobby, their get-away-from-it-all.

Each season we "call out" about 100. Then we do several months of intense fund raising- sales, car washes, events. That means lots of work to do to support the team.

By the end of that we are down to half.

Right now we are looking at 45. Everyone has some committee they are working for and the responsibilities are delegated out there. We even have a group of active alumni who still haven't left- (like the Volcano Man)- who are integral members of the group.

Frankly, as team advisor, I don't want 100 kids hanging around and being a behavioral situation who are only there because they expect a free trip. There is more to being on a team than just showing up at a meeting. I do want responsible, active kids who want to participate enough to do the fund raising and such without being a burden to the group.

I wouldn't be too concerned that some of your kids leave. Check out WHY they leave and ask yourself- "do I really misss those particular individuals?". Building your team is far more important than building any robot. Only you can determine what you want your team to be.

WC:cool:

Here at brazil , we have a few students that quit , but the motivation that first competition gave us make almost all students stay to work.