Kidnapping Opponent's Robot
 

Is it just me, or do other folks feel it is not in the spirit of FIRST to allow robots to be dragged, pulled or otherwise kidnapped. I called FIRST to try to convince them that the matches will be too much like Battlebots if this is allowed. They said they MAY change the rule because a few teams have also complained. An updated is coming out tonight.

I know I can come up with a robot design that will let me grab an opponents robot pull them into the endzone and watch my partner just grab one more goal to almost insure us a win. But I think I would make a lot of enemies in the FIRST community.

Just my opinion. I'm sure others disagree -so let's hear it.

Raul

Raul the Magnificent is right, AGAIN!
 

I totally agree with Raul on this one.

I can see allowing PUSHING of robots but pulling or hoisting or forklifting or etc. should be beyond the pale.

I really hope that FIRST changes its mind on this one.


Joe J.

I'm in on this one too ....
 

I say get the flame thrower out and toast this rule .......

Potentially damaging other robot... not good...
 

I think any extra brain power teams have to put into thinking about dealing with other robot potentially damaging their robot when lifting is just a waste... It don't really add any education value to this project, and it's starting to get to the bad side of human nature.

The pushing and the heavy goals in the game already call for a robust robot design already, so why have another thing to add more head to head competition between robots?

Pushing robots away imply defense and de-scoring, which is fine in a competition. But pulling or hoisting or fork lifting seems to imply that stronger robots can bully yours around, and can take advantage of a weaker robot, just because they aren't designed to be a bully robot... So defense¡K Or demonstration of power wins more... You can do the math ;)

And, especially with this year's shipping rule, you cannot take home your robot after the regionals to do repairs... You really want to prevent as much damages as possible.

And, I don't think rookie teams or 2nd year teams will be prepared for this kind of physics interaction between robots this year, especially with last year's competition.

What do you think?

Pick up or dragging another's robot is just like pinning. I think the pinng rule should apply. The end result would be like a cat and mouse game, somewhat entertaining.

FIRST should change the rule NOW
 

If FIRST is going to change the pull/kidnapping rule, they should do it NOW so that is is fair to everyone designing the robots.

Flame on. Incidental contacts such as pushing are OK. Pulling and kidnapping really make the game a robot battle. Every robots will be speding all two minutes pulling and pushing each other.

we complain, FIRST listens
 

Here's the update:

>Q: Can one robot lift another robot up using a fort lift type device?
If so for how long? Does the pinning rule apply to that?

>A: Yes, and yes the pinning rule does apply. Please read the Entanglement Clarification post and the rules on pinning.


It looks like they're getting more strict on the kidnapping rule. This ruling relates directly to lifting, but I'd argue that it can be extended to grabbing as well.

Mike

I'm In
 

I agree with all of you! The rule should be changed or made stricter. No matter what, you can be sure that 217 will not be designed to lift or pull another robot.

Disclaimer:

If you are pulling on a goal and we are pulling on a goal, then we apologize for pulling you our way.

-Paul

no good
 

Everyone was so excited when they found out that it was going to be on 2 vs 2... but I disagree. Kamens reasoning is obviously for publicity, but robotics is shown best when it BENIFITS rather than harms- and that is what is seen when you see robots FIGHTING- which leads to Battlebots! You might as well have a chainsaw and spikes on your robot!!

Just my two cents

-AA

Before I get flamed let me apologise (sp?) - We complain when they create a game with zero contact (that would be last years game) and we complain when they allow contact, even though FIRST clearly states to build your robots robust as there may be incidental contact - and now we complain when they go even further towards the robot gladiator thinking and allow pulling. Is it me or do just like to complain? Or, is it FIRST that simply over reacts from year to year and justifies it by changing this rule to drive us nuts? I have no idea what they were thinking! How is a referee ever gonna be able to establish what the allowable standard will be regarding this rule and be able to share it among all of the referees at 17 regionals so to establish a consistant approach ? Hey FIRST, if you are listening - I'm not whining - I'm just telling you that you are not going to be able to have consistancy if this rule is allowed to stand. Get real, and revise this to pushing only, as it will reduce the number of really ticked off unprofessional reactions when accidentally or purpose destruction occurs. Otherwise, be prepared to see really ugly people and that would be even worse that simply allowing total destruction (Battlebots mentality). I also am sure it could reduce the entanglement issues that will be increased if you don't change the rule. Keep the faith gang - I believe FIRST will clarify this rule and eliminate "pulling". Thats just my 2 cents worth.

WHAT??? CHANGE KIDNAPPING RULE!?!??!? NOOOOOO!
 

We've put all 12 motors on our drive train!!! Our main strategy is to drag 2 robots and 3 goals with us!

I say kidnap-happy everyone! "Build sturdy bots." Though I wonder how a robot will kidnap us if they cant keep up with us.

-anton

Pushing "Good" - Pulling "Bad"
 

Anton - Great design using all 12 motors on your drive train - changing the rule to only pushing shouldn't bother you at all - Now your robot would be the supreme pusher bot !!!

btw, i was kidding with the 12 motor idea on drive train idea. though we do have a design to make it happen :).

-anton

12 motors... Anton, your making me drool...

I believe that the kidnapping (if it happens) wont be as violent as everyone says it will be. If you grab a robot and lift it off of the ground so it cannot drive away that is impressive, so why not allow it? It adds a whole different dimension. Like stealing a harvester before it starts to harvest or a goal controller before it get's a goal. (oops did i say that)