I'm not sure whether Zion actually fell or not, I can't remember.. I think it was just attacked. Remember when they said something happened which triggered the EMP blast early?? yeah.. that's the imposter Agent Smith guy that's behind all that I'm 99.23% sure of it... or wait were they talking about them attacking the ships??

So, I don't think Zion fell... Neo's still got 24 hours before the Sentinals reach Zion..

I went and saw it again tonight. The dialouge was a little easier to swallow but I still am not buying everything they're selling. One thing this movie certainly did, it made me appreciate Minority Report a whole lot more. It got into "the nature of things" discussions without applying the brakes to the movie. Here's to hoping Revolutions makes it all worthwhile.
November 5, 2003.
Be there.
Grade upgraded to a B.

er, yeah, it did b/c that last ship only found one survivor when they say that it was a slaughter

or was that the defense they were talking about?
i thought it was Zion
b/c they also said that the sent. s kept digging after they killed everyone

[NOTE: Some may consider the information in this post a spoiler. However, I really shouldn't have to add this bit of information, because **SPOILERS** dominates the title of this thread.]

Just saw the Matrix Reloaded. And while I am not going to read the 7 pages of discussion that is this thread, I will say what I think of the movie.

It appears as though the majority of this movie was nothing but a "filler." Filler not in the sense that it is worthless, but background information; information necessary to create a setting for the real movie (chapter one of Hamlet). With that little said, it appears as though the real movie will be The Matrix: Revolutions.

We learn about the prior 5 Zions that has existed. We also learn that the Matrix is version 5. Tying these two pieces of information together and the fact that The Architect says Zion will once again be destroyed, we can conclude that in order for the Matrix to be.. reloaded.. the 1% probability of disaster that is factored out (Zion) has to be destroyed. What does that mean? A little of nothing.

However, I do have a slight problem, as some others do, believing everything the architect had to say. Whenever Neo too quickly believes what he is told, the belief is usually incorrect: the supposed death of Trinity, the fact that he isn't "the one;" etc.. all of which Neo has believed, but has turned out to be partial truth. Therefore, I can only assume the architect is, to some degree, playing with Neo's mind; catalyzing some sort of reaction.

Also, the choice the architect gives Neo parallels the choice he is given in the original Matrix by Morpheus. In addition, a similar path is chosen by Neo. In the original, Neo is told by the Oracle that he is not The One. Neo believes, but later discovers that he is.. that the oracle just said what he wanted to hear. In Reloaded Neo is told by the Oracle that there is nothing he can do to stop Trinity's death. And while she didn't die, we all know that humans do eventually die. Is this what The Architect is referring to, or is he simply saying what Neo expects to hear, thus catalyzing some sort of reaction?

The Architect states that the purpose of The One is to now return to the source to.. refresh the code? huh? I am slightly confused by this directive. However, it does make sense: Neo, all of a sudden, weilds a power over the sentinels, seemingly real machines, not part of a.. fiction. Is he really outside the Matrix, or was the door to his left a gateway to some sort of.. test?

I do have another question. Who is the "mother" of the matrix? Have we met her? The Architect, due to his response to Neo's question, asserts that it is not the Oracle. Therefore, who could it be? A new character, or one we have already come to know.

I have many more questions, but I am beginning to realize how large (relatively, of course) this post is becoming; therefore I will bring it to a close.

Neo's choices litters him with self doubt. And while he seems to be constantly shown that his doubt is.. incorrect, he continues to doubt.. interesting.

I have heard of mixed reviews of The Matrix: Reloaded. I am willing to concede that the story was a bit lacking; however, until I see Revolutions, I will cling to the belief that this movie was nothing more than a setup, a presentation of important information. After all, Reloaded and Revolutions are basically, together, a whole script seperated into two parts: A beginning and an.. end. I could be wrong, I could be right; I am just reflecting what I think.

Sorry for repeating myself in some cases, but in order for me to really have a question to which I can accept an answer to, I must have more than one way of arriving at it.

Oh, btw: The Matrix has you.. [lol]

I'm not an official screenwriter, but I can give you a better response than most because I have a pretty good grasp on the story...

From what I understand, the architect said that the matrix has a flaw. 99.9% of the population accepts the matrix as it is, a realistic representation of the world. However, due to a genetic anomaly, 0.1% of the population will realize how superficial the matrix is. What they do is allow this 0.1% to be extracted and put into Zion. Then, periodically, they destroy Zion so that it doesn't exceed their control. He said this has happened 6 times already.

They let the people of Zion do this because it gives them the illusion of choice. In reality, their fate has already been determined.

I do not believe there is a "matrix inside a matrix" because as said by the architect, the anomaly prevents them from doing so. Although how Neo stoped 4 Sentinels with just his hand is a mystery. Probabaly a new anomaly the machines haven't discovered. Kinda like a wireless connection to the central matrix.

My guessing is that once you are 'The One' with the Matrix world you become one with the real world. Since Morph and everyone have never seen the other 'One's' before they wouldn't know this.

But you have to wonder, what if this is a dream? Remeber all those Alice in Wonderland refrences? :yikes:

Just an interesting quick check of numbers...

According to U.S. Bureau of the Census, the population of the world is currently some 6.294 billion people. If .1% of those don't accept the Matrix as a reality, then that means about 6.294 million people are going to get ejected from it, hopefully migrating to Zion. Very generously assuming that about half the people ejected from the Matrix are fortunate enough to be rescued and rehabilitated by the Resistance or otherwise survive the dangers of being in a barren wasteland with extreme atrophy caused by never using any of their muscles before and still somehow manage to find their way to Zion, that places the population of Zion at just over 3 million people. Comparatively, the population of New York City is around 8 million people. That makes Zion a relatively small city... kinda depressing for the last of the human race.

Of course if the Machines know all this, why the Machine don't just take the easy way out and put some shredders on the other end of the ejection chutes so that if a person WAS ejected from the Matrix, he wouldn't even have a chance to be rescued by the Resistance and instead would be just fed back into the system, I don't know....

They already said in the movie that Zion is 250,000 people.

There you go with that logic thing again. Hollywood never touches the stuff!

I sure missed that one.

Even so, it's still interesting to know that if you are one of the 6.294 million people to get ejected, and if only 250,000 make it to Zion, your chances of survival are just under 4%.

Moral of the story: if you see Agent Smith coming at you to take you out of the Matrix, try and convince him that you actually do really really like it in there.

Dan: You're making the assumption that the "crop," at any given time, consists of the entire population of the Earth, which isn't necessarilly true.

The machines could keep only 2.5million humans in power plants, in which case, 250,000 is a huge portion (relatively). 250,000 is 0.1% of 250,000,000. And that's still under the assumption that the population of Zion came from the Matrix, when, in fact, not all of it did. You know that both Tank and Dozer, from the first movie, were born and raised in Zion, and have never, in their lives, been in the Matrix.

Well, the first one was supposed to be around the year 2000 - it's supposed to be a simulation identical to that (this) time. Therefore it can be said that the people of the matrix consider the population of the world (or for them, the Matrix) to be 6.whatever billion people. The real question is if this statistic is accurate for the Matrix - does the Matrix consist of 6 billion people, or are the people TOLD that their population consists of 6 billion people. If it is the latter, well, that opens up a whole new set of doors. The 6 billion statistic comes from multiple civilian organizations. If, however, the Machines WANT the people of the matrix to believe in that number, then they must be in control of those organizations to spread that number. So the question is, what other major global organizations do the Machines secretely run in order to keep control of the Matrix and feed the rest of the unsuspecting population the information that keeps them being nice happy batteries?

I hate to complicate things, but there's always the possibility that some of the people in the matrix are merely programs, and are part of the matrix. Indeed, we know this to be true for the Oracle, the "frenchie", the keymaker, etc. What I'm suggesting is that it might be possible that some everyday, "normal" people are programs designed to keep people in line, or to feed them information, etc. This would inflate the population of the Matrix beyond how many humans are connected to it.

Of course ... considering all the issues in the Matrix, I don't think believability was a prime concern for the movie ;)

Stephen

all i have to say is wow.

i am a big movie person and am very good at perdicting things that are going to happen...specially sci-fi. it took me one time watching the first matrix to understand it. all you have to do is go to the theater with a blank and very open mind. then you take in the data, process it, and take it exactly how they present it. you can stay up all night thinking and trying to make sense of it, or you can take what they give you and accept it. or maybe i just have a special ability...i don't know...all i know is that i feel much more satisfied by doing what i said above. only much later do i reflect on what i have seen and then i will just rewatch the movie to refresh my memeory. i guess my point is that these guys started thinking of the matrix as a comic book series....so think of watching the movie as reading the book. i have yet to see the second movie and i will prob. wait until it goes to the $2 theater to see it. just relax guys and take it with that clear mind and enjoy it for what it is......entertainment.

plus...they did make it so that you would be confused and have questions so that you would go see the other movies.....ah yes human nature is exploited again...