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-   -   Image Discuss: TechnoKat Trick Wheel (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18238)

CD47-Bot 19-02-2003 18:39

Image Discuss: TechnoKat Trick Wheel
 

Clark Gilbert 19-02-2003 18:41

WOW!
 
Where did that come from!?!?!?!?! :ahh: :yikes:

Beast314 19-02-2003 20:06

Sure looks like those are in the wings. My guess is they run on two motors though, the Window and Fisher. Maybe they even threw the two together like the Drill and Fisher from the last two years. Why else would they have two speed controllers? There's my $.02

KyleGilbert45 19-02-2003 20:34

uhmmmm.....hmmmmmmm....
 
let me think.......hmmmmmm........

uhmmmm..........nope......sorry :(

Beast314 19-02-2003 20:43

Maybe they're just hiding in the back of the bot. I think I've spotted them in the full bot pic from the side. I guess I'm up to my $.04 now.

KyleGilbert45 19-02-2003 20:50

that may be the case..... but you might wanna look a little closer

the secret will be revealed all in good time :D

David Kelly 19-02-2003 21:25

Quote:

Originally posted by KyleGilbert45
that may be the case..... but you might wanna look a little closer

the secret will be revealed all in good time :D


/me knows what it's from ;) i received some information about the's omni wheels and where they are from a few VERY good inside sources... hrm, i wonder who they could be?? :]

D.J. Fluck 19-02-2003 21:54

Quote:

Originally posted by David Kelly
/me knows what it's from ;) i received some information about the's omni wheels and where they are from a few VERY good inside sources... hrm, i wonder who they could be?? :]
hrm I think we have a spy in our midsts :p


Its not me, honest!

Josh Hambright 20-02-2003 12:14

i think i get it now!

Wow good luck guys...
Everyone here in lafayette is looking forward to meeting up with you in competition.

:]

KyleGilbert45 20-02-2003 12:17

Quote:

i think i get it now!

Well then please explain....it should be fun to see what ya have to say since its probably not right..... :D

Greg Perkins 20-02-2003 12:47

i think it is a drive system for the ends of your wings


Bad

D.J. Fluck 20-02-2003 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by badjokeguy
i think it is a drive system for the ends of your wings


Bad

heh that was one of the first guesses by Beast314, and like Kyle said, its wrong...

:D

You will find out soon enough.

We're havin' too much fun this year :D

Jnadke 20-02-2003 13:06

It looks like it's used for turning. Those treads have an aweful lot of traction so they need to lower the omni wheels to turn the robot better. My guess is this is for running the robot in high-gear. Low gear should have enough torque to turn the treads.

jalee1011 20-02-2003 13:36

it looks to me like it is for keeping the bot up. if it is hit from the side then instead fo getting a lot of impact and possibly tipping it moves sideways some and reduces damage...not to mention the good traction for moving foreward.

Clark Gilbert 20-02-2003 22:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Jnadke
It looks like it's used for turning. Those treads have an aweful lot of traction so they need to lower the omni wheels to turn the robot better. My guess is this is for running the robot in high-gear. Low gear should have enough torque to turn the treads.
Uhhh...nope....we have this really cool thing this year that is called the "puck". The newest version doesnt look much like a puck (but the 1st version did).

WernerNYK 20-02-2003 23:36

These wheels drop down perpendicular to the treads for a translational drive to get to the ramp quicker; but they could also remain down and spin if at the right height so that the treads could drive forward at the same time.

Or they may not "drop down" at all but always be there.

That's my opinion. ;)

157#1Driver 20-02-2003 23:58

I've seen this design before with many other teams. WPI is one I can think of off the top of my head in the 2001 competition.

WernerNYK 21-02-2003 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by 157#1Driver
I've seen this design before with many other teams. WPI is one I can think of off the top of my head in the 2001 competition.
If you're talking about "wonder-wheels," yes WPI was one of the first teams to build and implement such a system in 2001; they were also used on Gompei 2k2.

If you're talking about drop-down wheels, well.... WPI also had those in 2001, but not in the same way as I think 45 is using this year.

Clark Gilbert 21-02-2003 09:37

Wrong

Keep the guesses coming.

:D

Think of our 2000 robot :D

KyleGilbert45 24-02-2003 11:12

well...
 
Well i guess everyone got bored with trying to guess what the trick wheels went to...looks like everyone is going to have to wait till St. Louis to see them...I dont know if any more pics will be released before then.....I expect a few threads to come up after St. Louis though.... :yikes: :ahh:

Curt Henderson 24-02-2003 12:31

Wonder Wheels
 
My educated(?) guess is that they are mounted out at the tip of the wings with the wheel axis perpendicular to the tracks. Then wheels are then going to be used to scoot their robot under the side rails with the wings down.

That's my quarters worth!

KyleGilbert45 24-02-2003 18:34

Unfortunately i think someone already had a similar idea, which would make it wrong... :( I'm not really sure that anyone will get a right answer... oh well.... still fun to hear what ya have to say...:p

Gadget470 24-02-2003 19:01

Someone from 45 said think of 2000's bot:


I'm still clueless :mad:

WakeZero 24-02-2003 19:14

Bah Hum Bug... I hate guessing games :rolleyes:

Beast314 24-02-2003 19:23

So here is guess number three. This is a bit of a far out there, but I'm thinking this bot can make in under the bar. Not in that they would slide under with wings down, but rather the wing assembly would kinda flop towards the front or the back and once on the other side pull itself back up. Why else would there be Teflon tape on the edge of the wing ends? At the same time it dosen't really deal with the omni wheels in this guess, but I'm sure they're in there. I only think of this because as I recall the ball device from 2000 could go under the bar.

Like I said this is a way out there idea.

KyleGilbert45 24-02-2003 19:31

Wow... thats a good idea... wonder why we didnt think of that... but its wrong...:( Teflon tape? Where? :confused:


Oh this is fun.....:D

kacz100 24-02-2003 19:52

I am almost 100% sure they are inside the "main" portion of the robot. However, this is where it gets complicated. Since it seems that they aren't deployable they would have to be in contact with the ground all the time. so in order for the tracks to work they would have to placed perpendicular to the tracks. But to me that can only give you one thing....that would be better mobility on the carpet. Yet somehow with a miracle when the arms fold out they lift up leaving your on your tracks for better grip. Seem reasonable? Otherwise I am lost!

Mr.T 24-02-2003 20:10

TechnoKats wheels?
 
Hi guys, now it's time for my guess. Just hope if somebody guesses correctly, theyre up front enough to tell us. We think the wheels are designed to go both frontwards and backwards, plus being able to go SIDEWAYS! Take a good look! Well, how's that guess guys? If it is so, great feat of engineering, would love to see her run.

Travis Covington 24-02-2003 20:18

I bet they are on the base (the main one, not the wings)

and they are used as the primary drivetrain.

Just not on the robot with treads ;)

*shhhhh*

Austin 24-02-2003 20:27

You guys will NEVER guess, nor have ANY idea whatsoever what these trickwheels are for.
Haha, boy oh boy, isn't this great!

Travis Covington 24-02-2003 20:29

stop mocking us :( haha

They are on the 2003 bot!! okay, that means they aren't in the picture that we have seen of the robot with wings.


am i right??? ;)

David Kelly 24-02-2003 20:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Austin
You guys will NEVER guess, nor have ANY idea whatsoever what these trickwheels are for.
Haha, boy oh boy, isn't this great!


i have info from some VERY CLOSE "inside" sources...

mouhahahahahaha :D /me tries to think back to that conversation he had with Andy Baker on my phone... ah HA! I remember what it was about now. :p

Jnadke 24-02-2003 20:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Austin
You guys will NEVER guess, nor have ANY idea whatsoever what these trickwheels are for.
Haha, boy oh boy, isn't this great!


Do I hear a condescending tone from a TechnoKat?


I bet Baker could break your back like a toothpick :D

D. Gregory 24-02-2003 20:43

Those are omniwheels. They are designed to eliminate side friction when swerve/tank driving. The rings rotate sideways so that when the robot turns, the wheels don't have any resistance to teh ground.

Willum 24-02-2003 20:45

Well i'm out of ideas what they may be really used for, but wow. think of the traction that will get in forward motion, but the maneuverability in 360's. ....wow...

I'm jealous.

Yan Wang 24-02-2003 20:51

I'm ruling them out as any important drive wheel due to the fact there's no proper pillow block to mount them... or is the fault of the design? :)

But after looking briefly at your robot this year, my guess is that they are somehow related to the arms... perhaps they are for driving when the arms are raised in some way? I dunno, but I'm just using my wildest guesses.

Clark Gilbert 24-02-2003 20:55

Quote:

But after looking briefly at your robot this year, my guess is that they are somehow related to the arms... perhaps they are for driving when the arms are raised in some way? I dunno, but I'm just using my wildest guesses.
He's the closest one yet!! He's getting warm......

Travis Covington 24-02-2003 21:03

K i gotta get in on this...

if they are for driving in some way with the arms up...

maybe it has to do with the outrageous gear ratio you guys have

it looks to be 6:1 !!!

meaning that thing is scary fast in high, and scary powerful in low...

but when i look carefully at the base of your robot this year i cannot see where they could possibly be!!

gimme some time...I need to analyze the pics

Cory 24-02-2003 21:16

ummm they may not have pillow blocks because the wheel itself has bearings. They arent driving the shaft, they are driving the wheel itself. Based on the fact that those wheels seem to be mounted to your base, and the fact that you have no real drive motors left, Im gonna guess the tracks and omnis are interchangeable.

Cory

Don 24-02-2003 22:58

2 guesses for me. Both guesses involve the wheels being on the ends of the arm and they are driven in the direction perpendicular to the belts drivetrain.

My first guess is that the wheels are used to extend and retract the arms by driving them into and out of the robot. Not too realistic, but hey, its just a guess right?

My other guess is that the arms are pushed down so that the drive base is lifted up and the wheels are used for some side to side driving.

Just a few wild guesses for the fun of it.

Gadget470 24-02-2003 23:40

An answer was already given, and your guesses negated.

Read the thread first. :)

They are part of a modular system. Omni's OR Treads, The Kat's choose before matches what they are gonna go with.

Josh Hambright 25-02-2003 08:54

dwarfs newest guesse:

maybe its for driving on top of totes... you lift the arm to the right height then you drive up on top of them with the winged parts...you could either still keep your robots main part on the ground or maybe you would be planning on actualy hoisting your robot up using the boxes as stilts...

just another crazy idea.

maybe we can just send some interigators to kokomo to get it out of them...we have ways of making you talk! its only 45 mins away!
Just kidding:)

Jnadke 25-02-2003 11:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget470
An answer was already given, and your guesses negated.

Read the thread first. :)

They are part of a modular system. Omni's OR Treads, The Kat's choose before matches what they are gonna go with.


I never saw any official answer...

But that's the most logical guess, as the omniwheel part is modular. You can see the bolts on the frame meaning that it is meant to be taken off easily. It's not welded together like most of the TechnoKats robot.

The only thing I can't figure out is what's driving it. The coupling on their primary gearbox is meant for easy release (and to absorb shock), but I don't understand why they would waste all that power on these omniwheels...

Gadget470 25-02-2003 11:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Cory
Based on the fact that those wheels seem to be mounted to your base, and the fact that you have no real drive motors left, Im gonna guess the tracks and omnis are interchangeable.

.. followed by ..
Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Carmain
Yep

Josh Hambright 25-02-2003 12:09



yep definately look modularish...

thats what i was thinking origionaly when i saw all the images together and made a post on the first page of this thread but then it seemed like other people were saying things like that and being told they were wrong so i changed my mind...
shoulda gone with my gut instincts....

why do i have a feeling that they still have more suprises instore for us?

Clark Gilbert 25-02-2003 12:15

More Surprises
 
More surprises?! [sarcastic]No....Never[/sarcastic]

There will be lots of pictures after St. Louis :D

KyleGilbert45 25-02-2003 12:15

Of course the gear boxes are modular..they have to be easy to take out to repair if we strip gears..and the "mounting brackets" on the end only hold the gear box to the frame at an angle so that the motor and the gear box doesnt drag on the ground....

Josh Hambright 25-02-2003 12:27

weee its like christmas...who knows what we'll get next!

Amanda Morrison 25-02-2003 12:34

Well, whatever surprises in store, a great robot nonetheless!

LizJJury 25-02-2003 13:22

if it is used to move then won't there be a problem with the tiny wheel thingy's going past the mesh on the ramp???? I hope not cause that is not good and will get you disqualified. unless you just made that so that it looks pretty and keeps the chain from falling off. anyways......Go Team 902!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D.J. Fluck 25-02-2003 13:32

Quote:

Originally posted by LizJJury
if it is used to move then won't there be a problem with the tiny wheel thingy's going past the mesh on the ramp???? I hope not cause that is not good and will get you disqualified. unless you just made that so that it looks pretty and keeps the chain from falling off. anyways......Go Team 902!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I assure you even with a full 130 pound load, the timing belts or any other part of the robot DO NOT pass through the mesh

Clark Gilbert 25-02-2003 16:45

No more games....well....partly
 
It looks like Gadget and Cory get a cookie for being correct, while Travis gets 1/2 of a cookie.

We have a second drive base. It is simply our backup plan. If the primary drive base gives us major problems, then we may use the backup.

More details will follow. Both drive bases are in the crate and will be in St. Louis. The secondary base is a ball to drive!


:D

As of now, no more questions will be answered and hopefully no other TechnoKats will post. This thread is ending now and the true secrets will be revealed after St. Louis.

Have a nice day. :)

Madison 25-02-2003 17:03

Re: No more games....well....partly
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Clark Gilbert
It looks like Gadget and Cory get a cookie for being correct, while Travis gets 1/2 of a cookie.

We have a second drive base. It is simply our backup plan. If the primary drive base gives us major problems, then we may use the backup.

More details will follow. Both drive bases are in the crate and will be in St. Louis. The secondary base is a ball to drive!

Didn't I tell you that sometime last week? :P

...maybe it was DJ. I don't remember, but I thought their ability to switch out was entirely obvious. I mean...Lovejoy coupling, hi. :)

D.J. Fluck 25-02-2003 17:06

Re: Re: No more games....well....partly
 
Quote:

Originally posted by M. Krass
Didn't I tell you that sometime last week? :P

...maybe it was DJ. I don't remember, but I thought their ability to switch out was entirely obvious. I mean...Lovejoy coupling, hi. :)

Um no, it wasn't me


Anyway, we used the Lovejoy couplings last year, just a bigger bulkier version of them

Travis Covington 25-02-2003 18:16

which coupling did you guys use this year?

Clark Gilbert 25-02-2003 19:01

It's a LoveJoy type coupling (not sure if it's LoveJoy brand). I found it in the MSC book when we were looking during the season and it's some type of plastic (not derlin, i think)... If you looked you could find it. I remember the description saying something about how they would be good to use in an environment where food was being processed or something.

JVN 25-02-2003 19:19

I can't wait.
Andy told me a little bit about it, and I'm drooling already.
It's been so hard to keep my mouth shut in this thread... :D ;)

See you in Houston!

Austin 25-02-2003 20:32

Apology
 
Quote:

You guys will NEVER guess, nor have ANY idea whatsoever what these trickwheels are for.
I just wanted to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by my last post. I did not mean to sound condescending, and I am sorry if I did. I'll try to be more polite, and less arrogant next time. :)

Travis Covington 25-02-2003 22:44

hey clark, were those couplings the CEC composite jaw couplings?

found here?

MSC Page 3558

We have been looking for something to replace the couplings we have now, and these look pretty light and would help us alot.

Clark Gilbert 26-02-2003 08:34

Yah, I think those are the ones we got (99% sure)

Rickertsen2 19-04-2003 20:20

Ok so what were they for?

Adam Y. 19-04-2003 20:22

Quote:

Ok so what were they for?
Errrr omnidirectional steering. You can go in any direction you want to with at least three of those wheels that are powered.

Rickertsen2 19-04-2003 20:29

Quote:

Originally posted by wysiswyg
Errrr omnidirectional steering. You can go in any direction you want to with at least three of those wheels that are powered.
I know that but why was such a big deal made about them? is there anything special about how they were used?

Daniel Brim 19-04-2003 20:34

It was used as a part of this revolutionary drive system

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pi...&quiet=verbose

It is so important because it shows the Engineering Inspiration that FIRST is all about. It is something more then a tank or a box on wheels.

ChewyMasterFlex 19-04-2003 22:11

So what was up about the striking similarity between the Da Bears drive system and the secondary Technokats drive system?

Does my post belong in another thread?

Gadget470 19-04-2003 22:42

Chewy: 'da Bears, team 247, did not have anything similar to Team 45's Ball Drive robot.

247 had 3 wheels (much like last year), and used 3 motors. The drills and a chiaphua with matched speed. Also, in each of the 3 they had an on-the-fly shifter. A fourth motor, which I believe was a globe, drove the rotation mechanism.

Basically put, on 247's bot, the wheels and motors all spun around to provide "omnidirectional" movement. In 45's secondary bot, everything stays stationary and the direction the ball is spun dictates it's movement. As probably stated in the other thread, the movement of the ball is based on how the two motors are moving. If you look at the ball picture, you can see how it has to axes of movement giving it omnidirectional movement from a standstill.

PM me if you would like a further explination of either system.

You can see two of 247's wheels (along with their suction system) in this picture:

Alex Cormier 24-01-2004 17:40

Re: Image Discuss: TechnoKat Trick Wheel
 
are those Omni wheels?? would those actually work this year on the 6in steps?

Wetzel 26-01-2004 03:14

Re: Image Discuss: TechnoKat Trick Wheel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElDiablo872
are those Omni wheels?? would those actually work this year on the 6in steps?

1. This thread is from last year.
2. Many times in this thread it was said that they indeed omni wheels.


Please read before you post, thank you.

Wetzel


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