Should Countries Such as India and China Attempt Manned Moon Missions?
 

I was just wondering what everybody thought of countries such as China and India attempting Manned Moon Missions?

Cipher X

What do you mean by "such as India and China?"
Do you mean Asian countries with large populations? Do you mean countries with only sporadic industrialization?

I thought that he meant countries with names that end in the letter "a"

(like "Russia" and "America"...)

-dave

that comment seems a little hostile. Or bitter.

But I don't even think India even has a space program of any sort. China's been preparing to put a man in space but I don't see them putting a human on the moon for the next decade or two. They wanted to buy a Russian Soyuz capsule for study but they russians put a really high price on it so the chinese have decided just to build their own. They've launched a few test dummies into space. And they DO plan to put a man on the moon. But like I said.......not for a while it looks like.

No bitterness or hostility, just confusion as to what you meant. Your two examples were not enough to extrapolate a general rule from, so I asked.
Did you just mean countries who haven't yet?

Maybe a better way to say it is: "countries with existing space program who haven't done it".

i say that the U.S. and or Russia should try and go to the moon on a joint space effort like the international space station

They both did already.

K K let me explain myself seeing that i caused a lot of confusion.. the whole reason i posted was to just kinda get a general idea of the opinions of people. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_p...es/2632477.stm i got the inspiration after reading that article and seeing some of the comments made. I am in no way hostile seeing that i am very much in support of any country that is willing to try to do someting ambitious. i basically wanted to know if everyone thought it was like good or bad or just a stunt or if it will serve any purpose plus any kinda opinion.... that is all

Cipher X

P.S i hope i made myself non confusing this time lol

Indian Space Research Organization www.isro.org

I would *love* to see Chinese presence in space. And India too, along with any other countries, but the Chinese are closer in that regards. And with the Chinese in space, who knows, NASA might just get a lot more funding.

Our country works best when there's a challenge. Look at the 60s, with the Russians launching of the Sputnik, and Yuri Gagaran, it lit a collective fire under our rear ends. Moonshot would not have been possible if not for another country challenging us, and out of the space program came innovations that people take for granted. Printed circuit boards, cyrogenic treating of metals (used now extensively in tools), advance aluminum fabrication techniques (used everywhere from soda cans to new cars), etc... all came out of the space program.

When you look at NASA - and what it used to be... think about it. NASA once upon a time are staffed by some of the best engineers, who strived to built the best they ever can. Look at the Pioneer probe - designed for an 18 month mission, that thing was responding to pings for *30 YEARS*. Now NASA's budget is slashed to just a shell of its former glory. Instead, we sink money into million-dollar a pop Tomahawk missiles, and build nuclear submarines with the firepower to destroy the entire friggin' world... at what point do we say, "Gee whiz, maybe we have enough, let's spend our money wisely?"

I say, go for it. It could give NASA (and Congress) the kick in the butt they need to get moving. Without a challenge, the manned space program seems cast adrift.

Well, with a name like Cipher, no wonder you are hard to understand! ;)

Seriously, though, I think it would be great to start a new space race amoung a few countries to stimulate technological advances. Not many people are aware of how much techanology was advanced due to the space race with Russia in the 60's and the USA's determination to put a man on the moon before 1970.

I think a new space race wouldnt be very productive. Although youa re right that it stimulates advances, if both sides work together more can be achieved.

Look at the ISS, its far too expensive for one country to build alone, however with international cooperation it can be built, with scientific advances being made because of it.

At this point I would mention the million dollar gas-propelled pen designed by Nasa to write in space. I would also mention the pencil the Russians took :) Its probably urban myth but its a nice story...
Perhaps cooperation would have pervented Nasa spending millions on producing it. Millions that they could then donate to FIRST teams... well maybe not.

Getting vaguely back to the orignal point of the thread, i think that there is a possibility of a non-governmental manned space flight within the next few years. Look at the starchaser team (www.starchaser.co.uk), they along with several other private teams are competing for the X-prize - a multimillion dollar prize for the first private manned spaceflight.
I'm not sure if they'll beat China or India to it, but the X Prize certainly has the potential to open up space to NGOs.

Actually, that *is* a urban myth - kinda. The story goes, the Americans spent millions designing the space pen, and hey, it's a nifty toy. The Russians took up a pencil. Moral - there's always more than one way to do things. I even had that little story in my lecture slides for our HS members.

The *real* story is:
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm

NASA never asked Paul C. Fisher to produce a pen. When the astronauts began to fly, like the Russians, they used pencils, but the leads sometimes broke and became a hazard by floating in the [capsule's] atmosphere where there was no gravity. They could float into an eye or nose or cause a short in an electrical device. In addition, both the lead and the wood of the pencil could burn rapidly in the pure oxygen atmosphere. Paul Fisher realized the astronauts needed a safer and more dependable writing instrument, so in July 1965 he developed the pressurized ball pen, with its ink enclosed in a sealed, pressurized ink cartridge. Fisher sent the first samples to Dr. Robert Gilruth, Director of the Houston Space Center. The pens were all metal except for the ink, which had a flash point above 200°C. The sample Space Pens were thoroughly tested by NASA. They passed all the tests and have been used ever since on all manned space flights, American and Russian. All research and developement costs were paid by Paul Fisher. No development costs have ever been charged to the government.
Because of the fire in Apollo 1, in which three Astronauts died, NASA required a writing instrument that would not burn in a 100% oxygen atmosphere. It also had to work in the extreme conditions of outer space:


In a vacuum.
With no gravity.
In hot temperatures of +150°C in sunlight and also in the cold shadows of space where the temperatures drop to -120°C
(NASA tested the pressurized Space Pens at -50°C, but because of the residential [sic] heat in the pen it also writes for many minutes in the cold shadows.)
Fisher spent over one million dollars in trying to perfect the ball point pen before he made his first successful pressurized pens in 1965. Samples were immediately sent to Dr. Robert Gilruth, Manager of the Houston Space Center, where they were thoroughly tested and approved for use in Space in September 1965. In December 1967 he sold 400 Fisher Space Pens to NASA for $2.95 each.

Lead pencils were used on all Mercury and Gemini space flights and all Russian space flights prior to 1968. Fisher Space Pens are more dependable than lead pencils and cannot create the hazard of a broken piece of lead floating through the gravity-less atmosphere.


:-)

-=- Terence

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993452

Well... China's already planning and doing as we speak.

The US is a world power, and there is not a lot of competition. There should be more money put into the space program. I hate to mention as an example about the shuttle Columbia, but NASA does not have enough money to maintain these vehicles at the best conditions.

Living in the space coast is awesome, and I enjoy watching the shuttle launch, or a rocket. Unfortunately some people take it for granted.

Apparently a lot of people living here are dependent on the Space Program for jobs and tourism. Cape Canaveral has its beaches (Ron Jon Surf Co.), the Space Center Visitor Center, and the Cruise Line Industry (Disney has two boats out there). With this war on terrorism going into effect, it may hinder other countries from joining the community of space and exploration.

Being Chinese meself, I of course have to support China in this. Everyone should have a nice space program...and like someone above me said, it'll give a little pressure on the US to give some more funding to NASA....

Sure, they've got the right to try, but America *ought* to go back there and reclaim the Moon and pick out the most useful/tactically advantageous positions first for our own use... Actually, we should be on Mars by now, building up bases there, but eh well.

I personally think that its very good for other countries to advance their space technology. Whether ppl like it or not the world is inevitably getting more and more globalized by the day. Talking about Space the United States and Russia are no longer the only contenders. In the past few decades many other countries have come up, i praise this advancement. The most important part of this is that as more and more nations have a well developed and technologically advanced space program, the more nations that can contribute towards a global space agenda. And being and Indian myself, i am a 100% in support of the ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization) and its wishes for moon and manned missions.

-Cipher X

Hell yeah India!! [I'm Indian, that's why I'm saying this]

India has an awesome space program (though it's not in the media as much as NASA or the Russian Space Program) that includes satellites, rockets, and parts for the ISS. (I have heard that India is giving a few parts to the ISS) As far as satellites go, I'm pretty sure that India has put up more satellites than any other developing nation (I'm not sure about China's statistics).

However, the U.S. lunar landing took a HUMONGOUS SUM OF MONEY!
Take the total transactions in the whole FIRST program (that includes the central administration, NATIONALS, Regionals, As well as ALL 1100 OR SO TEAMS in THE WHOLE 12 YEARS) and multiply it by 1000. Yes. it took multiple billions of dollars (i'm not sure exactly how much, but I think it's in the 100s of billions). The U.S. could afford to do that because of its strong, stable economy, and because many of its more dire problems (illness, infrastructure) were solved. Basically, it was a developed nation.

If a developING nation tried to do the same, it would produce catastrophic results. For example, instead of building a probe to go to the moon, China should try and stop some of its more dire problems (SARS and pollution) and India should build its infrastructure while reducing its pollution. For either country to go to the moon, it would take a lot of money, and by taking money away from solving these problems, would cause disaster.

The best option for the two countries right now is just to go up in space and help build the I.S.S.

Note the US could single handedly build the ISS. It will probably end up costing $30 Billion. Originally it was projected @ 18 Billion and last time I saw Estimates it was 24 - 26 Billion. Maybe 10 Billion to run for its expected life time. Our Gov wastes more money than that on trillion $$ tax cuts (which dont do anything I consider a waste) and other things that basically end up in it getting wasted or lost. Also if we didn't waste and lose money and have 1 billion here and there vanish we could have a far better medical system and a buch of other stuff that were behind in.

I pay more attention to these thing b/c I am a space fanatic. The longer it takes to build the ISS the more it will cost. B/c you will end up paying ppl to do nothing while their waiting to be able to send up parts. NASA is deeply under funded as well are most space agencies around the world. Originally before NASA there were plans to go to Mars in the 70's.

One reason is its under funded is that a congressional panel oversee's its funding. People who aren't scientist and who don't work for NASA or are even related to the space field oversee NASA's funding. Recently they have decided that NASA doesn't need the OSP (Orbital Space Plane) which is/was going to be use to ferry austronauts to ISS (After ISS is completed) instead of the Shuttle.http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...e_0305212.html. This will/would have enabled the ISS to operate at full staff (instead of its 3 now, 2 people). In addition, the shuttles, which were going to originally be retired in 2010ish, are now slated for 2020.

The ISS and the Shuttle Program makes a majority of NASA's budget thats the reason we aren't going to the Moon/Mars anytime soon unless some country tries to initiate a new Space Race with us to the Moon/Mars.

If the shuttles were to be replaced. I think they should be replaced by either modernized RSA Burans or some other type of system (I do prefer a modernized RSA Buran unless that syustem involed sum kind of "mothership" that would be used to go to other planets use a OSP to board it and "the mothership" would never land. All suplies could be ferried up to it. In a nutshell a more complex ISS capable of more movement rather than small boosters).

Another note. Should other countries go to the moon or beyond. Yes, why? B/c its awwinspiring and magically beautifully. Space is not just for the US, Russia, and China (soon any ways) (in ability to launch people in to space). Its for all life in the universe....