I don't think you've seen enough bots to make this conclusion. Some teams are effective with their extensions outside of the 30x36 down/out or up/in, possibly more effective with them up/in depending on configuration.

Most KOH's have something that slides out to knock bins, or plops down and holds the HDPE. The effectiveness of the wings when out/in/down/up really depends on how they are deployed. i.e. Something like the Kat's bot could hold off a weak opponent with just their wings while something such as the RoboCards can't stay out past hitting the bins.

A few more weeks and we'll all know what the best strategy really is.

*** Why is KOH not so successfull? I think the strategy does not yield enough QP.***

I would have to disagree with you there. We were plagued with mechanical/electrical/programing problems at UTC, but when we got our bot working, it work phenomenal. Out auton mode wasn't working, so we didnt get to the top until driver mode. That said, the boxes were already scattered around on both sides of the field. Maneuvering wasn't easy, but it wasn't extremely difficult, either (i dont know, however, talk to our driver about that one :)) After we got to the top, we finished lower our wings and we stayed there! nothing moved us; the one bot that tried bottomed out on us. Hmm, thats 25 points for us, then 25*2 for the other robot......not counting all the boxes mind you! To finish the match, we raised our other wing and let our alliance partner onto the ramp beside us, another 25 points! we ended up getting 228 points, 3rd highest in utc i believe. it rocketed us from below 30 to above 20! Now try telling me again KOH doesnt get qps and doesnt win matches. Oh yah, if you think that was just a fluke, we did it again and got 191 points. In part because of these matches, we won the delphi driving tomorrow's technology award for our wings.

I will try to get videos from that match so you can all see a KOH in action!

I just have to say that huge suction cups are awsome!

Granted I do see the flaws behind the KOH bots. Honestly, I tried to fight the idea for our KOH bot. In fact, I was probably the only one who didn't like the idea of not being able to score points. However, as the robot developed, I warmed up to the idea of our KOH bot. I'm still not completely comfortable with the idea of not being able to score points, but it looks soo cool when you can sit on the ramp for approx 2 min and get hit from both sides. Its a ballsy strategy, but if it works, it wokrs.

However, I'm a big fan of the bots that can stack if they feel like it. I'm practically in love with the TechnoTicks' bot and robots from teams 571 and 173. Hell, I remember the ticks grabbing a four stack and dropping it out of play in one of their matches, and 571 doing a 6 stack and the end of the day. Those matches blew me away.

I think that in the debate over a KOH strategy not yielding enough points, you have to decide how you want to play the game. Our team this year decided to play for the finals. In many aspects, a win is a win, and if a team can offer a reliable (and winning) performance they are likely to be tough contenders in the finals. After all, two wins in the finals guarantees advancing regardless of the number of qualifying points.

Yeah, winning in both elim matches will guarantee advancement, but it doesn't make the game fun to watch. The idea behind this game somewhat was making it more spectator friendly. Which means action. Last year, MOEHawk grabbed all 3 goals in about 5 second, locked down, and was beaten on for 1min 55sec (when everything worked). When everything worked, the match was really boring. But it was always a crowd pleaser when the wings bent backward. I think it is the same way this year with the KotH bots. It makes for a really boring match when everything works (unless the other alliance manages to build a stack of 6 and have the bins on their side to negate the KotH points) - but whenever a KotH bot fails.. it will be a crowd pleaser. That's just the way the world spins.

Gravity rules
 

Just use gravity it's the best way to control the ramp. All 130 lbs. of our weight is under 14" which makes for a dense robot. All I had to do as a driver was meet people on the ramp and then let gravity take over. Heck, in one match I hit a robot with treads, and way more power and didn't even have to throttle our robot, our wieght alone held them there. Good driving on the ramp will be the best advantage, NOT some kind of brake.

(ANYONE CAN BE DE-THRONED FROM THE RAMP.)

I don't think everyone is working under the same definition of koth or rampdom. A KoTH or rampdoms only purpose is to own the ramp, a normal bot or exstacker that drives back and forth to defend the ramp is not koth. Take a look at bots from 45(not the mouse), 179, and most notable 229. Each of them have hard-core-rampdom bots. There bots a solely designed to own the ramp, nothing more nothing else. Its self-explanitory that they could also use those large wings to push a lot of boxes.

Further I don't see many KoTHs out there, so far I've seen about 7 teams who have them. Stackers that can push other bots off the ramp aren't KoTH because any bot can push up there.

Don't think being low will save you from tipping, there are a bunch of pictures of bots on there backs. Many tips occur when bots push on both side of a crate and eventually there fronts come off the ground and then they fall over backwards.

We play king of the hill just by pushing off everyone else. And it has worked well so far. We do have arms that open to a total of 8 feet wide to block but it is easier to spin us that way. We have suction cups that work great however the ramp gets so heavily gouged that they are now worthless so they are coming off. At the Arizona regional, Kingman Team 60 was the definite KOH. It looked like 330 did something similar too.

Your absoulutly right. To be even a semmi-ramp bot, the ability to handle being flipped is very important. And moving around on the ramp has everything to do with KOH points. Robots that don't move better NOT MOVE or bad things happen. EX. suction cups getting torn up, robots tipping, or even getting partially knocked off the top and not being able to move back cause your suction cups are holding you in place. Standing still just isn't a good idea to me.

I was watching some of the Fla webcast today to see how swampthing did (179). The bot is nicely designed and can definitely sweep the ramp, but I did see them get stalled and stuck in several matches. Overall, their QP scores were fairly low.

Of course, this insn't a comprehensive evaluation, but it is more data. Also, in the three matches I saw, they didn't have anyone really try to push them off the top, but then, they only got to the top in one of the three matches I saw.

FYI

The top being torn up has not been a problem for our suction cup:D

You are cool.