Chief Delphi - Non - GP-ism at SVR

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- - Non - GP-ism at SVR (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19644)

well..368 did flip a few robots..

and damage a couple

it was not intentional,

and as they said before, it is part of the game

i think that the silicon valley regional had a lot of gracious professionalism compared to other regionals

there was no agreements, and we all had fun <-main point in first rite??

i did however witness a beginning of a fight, between two teams..who shall remain nameless...

the team that got flipped was extremely mad, and confronted another team.

the confrontation was brief, and was only verbal, but it did happen and i hope it wont happen again.

Re: Non - GP-ism at SVR

Quote:

Originally posted by CaseyG668

This year, though, seems to be a little different. Maybe it's just the game that's got me jaded; it doesn't seem to inspire as much goodwill between teams as the past two games have, and I don't really like that there's so little strategizing you can really do ahead of time - the rule of thumb for this game seems to be whoever can knock the most boxes from the ramp onto their side generally wins. Maybe it's all the stuff that happened during the six weeks, with the motor specs coming so terribly late, trying to create a whole new drive train, not to mention normal team dynamics. But my own little theory is that over the years, the fundamental ideals of FIRST, the teamwork and gracous professionalism, the learning, wonder and excitement of this opportunity, they've lessened to a degree where it's stopped being fun for some people.

I disagree with the no strategy thing. If anything, this game has much more strategy than last year, although probably not as much as 2001. Our team strategizes with other teams for as much time as we can before a match(qualifying or elimination). We scout the robots of our opponents and we decided on a suitable strategy. We ended up top seed because of this. If you take a look at our robot you would probably ask "how the heck did that robot get top seed out of 73 teams!?". Basically, it was all through our versatility and the ease with which we were able to work with our partners IMO, although obviously luck was a part of it(watch the last match on galileo, we won by one point, and we would have dropped a LOT if we would have lost). But honestly, I only remember two matches where I walked away without really feeling that we had worked well with our partners.

In my opinion, most teams think strategy is optional this year, and the key to winning is their bot. IMO, that is waaaay wrong. It is optional in the way that it is not nearly as necessary as it was in 2001, but it is an essential part of the game this year, if you wanted to win.

Re: Non - GP-ism at SVR

Quote:

Originally posted by CaseyG668
I've been in FIRST for three years, since the start of my team in 2001. I won't say I've seen it all, I don't think anyone can. The past two years, our team went to SVR and Nationals last year (which was absolutely fantastic!), and I've always had a wonderful time, and come back to this "reality" thing grinning and cheerful.

This year, though, seems to be a little different. Maybe it's just the game that's got me jaded; it doesn't seem to inspire as much goodwill between teams as the past two games have, and I don't really like that there's so little strategizing you can really do ahead of time - the rule of thumb for this game seems to be whoever can knock the most boxes from the ramp onto their side generally wins. Maybe it's all the stuff that happened during the six weeks, with the motor specs coming so terribly late, trying to create a whole new drive train, not to mention normal team dynamics. But my own little theory is that over the years, the fundamental ideals of FIRST, the teamwork and gracous professionalism, the learning, wonder and excitement of this opportunity, they've lessened to a degree where it's stopped being fun for some people.

Today at SVR, I was watching a match that my team was playing in. A robot on the other alliance flipped our partner, and while our two team's spectators gasped and tried to make sure the robot was alright, the team who's robot had flipped our partners' started yelling and cheering even louder. Now, I don't know *why* they were cheering, maybe it was for something their partner had done. But I was completely disgusted with their behavior.

I've heard from other people their stories of the loss of gracious professionalism, horror stories that make you wonder how they could have happened in a place like this. Others have spoken of the "gentlemen's agreements" that have been going on this year, their experiences with the lack of GP. Guess I've added myself to their ranks. I just wish I could say I was the last one.

- Casey Greene
<Casey668>

I agree 100%. The entire tone seemed different this year, and last year as well.

I think FIRST is being "geared down" to rookies, and the average person - as a result, it's losing a lot of the inventiveness and professionalism that made it great.

The emphasis is now definitely on "Gracious" and not "Professionalism."

This was all predicted in 2001: "The End of Elegance" in FIRST

I think FIRST has hit or is beginning to hit its apogee, and will slowly burn itself down to a managable level.

FIRST doesn't need to recruit more teams. FIRST needs to keep teams around for 2+ years, and let teams become more experianced. I'd rather see 30 good teams with innovative robots at a regional, than 60 teams that are clueless.

I also have an inclination to believe that some of the people in the upper echelons of FIRST might have lost sight of what this program was about.

It's not about including everyone: inclusion will be the death of this program.

It's about setting us apart in a good way.

Mayb the robot that was tipped was a serious threat to the opposing teams, and they *knew* they couldnt beat it, so they did what was wrong and tipped it. Thats one way of controlling a game. I disagree with it, and would rather have seen the match been played out by all four robots. Ohh well...

In the last 30 seconds of one of our matches, both of our robots were on the ramp, one of theirs, and a ton of bins on our side of the field. Their other alliance robot was stuck - high centered on a bin. So i went and unstuck them, and then they headed for the ramp. They get up there and wouldnt let us up. I pushed and shooved until all robots ended on the ramp. You shoulda heard the gasp from the audience when i drove our robot off the ramp.

Most things that happen in a match are for stratagy, you dont go tipping other robots just to prove you can. I tipped a robot once. They were able to get up, and I'll tell you, they showen no mercy after that.!