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Gui Cavalcanti 03-04-2003 17:12

Complete Shipping Failure
 
We got our robot back from the Philadelphia Alliance Regional today. We didn't get the crate back.

The robot's currently sitting outside of the robotics lab, strapped to it's pallet. The other 5 sides of our crate are completely gone, and the robot is covered in clear shrink wrap *we didn't put there*. Our red light dome has been shattered, a side panel has been ripped off and put back on top of the robot. Who knows what other damage is lurking under the shrink wrap.

I'm a little ticked off. Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else, and how was the situation resolved??

Harrison 03-04-2003 17:17

That really sucks, I don't know what else to say.

I would suggest contacting FIRST and FedEx and talking to them, because obviously this shouldn't happen.

Jeff Waegelin 03-04-2003 17:19

Oh my... I don't know what to say. How could that happen? I hope nothing too terrible happened to your robot.

Joe Matt 03-04-2003 17:22

Oh my Gui, that's awful! Report this directly to the shipping company and FIRST. Talk to who delivered this crate and then keep going up the latter untill you get to Philly. If you need any help, remeber Tucker is here. Just talk to Clarke.

Amanda Morrison 03-04-2003 17:25

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=19516

Josh Hambright 03-04-2003 17:40

Our crate had a 4 inch by 2 inch hole in it...and some other major damage...

Seems like we should start putting "FRAGILE" on the side or getting some of those shipping sensors that change color and such if the package is handled incorrectly in transit...these bots dont come cheap and the shipping companies should be more careful!

Kyle Fenton 03-04-2003 17:58

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gui Cavalcanti
We got our robot back from the Philadelphia Alliance Regional today. We didn't get the crate back.

The robot's currently sitting outside of the robotics lab, strapped to it's pallet. The other 5 sides of our crate are completely gone, and the robot is covered in clear shrink wrap *we didn't put there*. Our red light dome has been shattered, a side panel has been ripped off and put back on top of the robot. Who knows what other damage is lurking under the shrink wrap.

I'm a little ticked off. Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else, and how was the situation resolved??

Oh wow, I really can't believe that. Based on your descriptions what I am thinking is that the whoever was handling your crate improperly forked it, and it went over. Then they probably try to fix it quick by wrapping it in a bunch of bubble wrap. It is not unheard of, but still inexcusable. You should make a bill and give it to the dryage company for their careless mistake.

David Kelly 03-04-2003 18:01

im not surprised that this happened. my brother works at the FedEx hub here in Indy and they could care less about the stuff that they ship. I have heard horror stories about some of the stuff that goes on. If something falls it's "oops" or just just break stuff on purpose. They dont care if it says Fragile on it or not. They usually dont even look at that. I guess you can try calling FedEx to get their take on it, but I'm not sure how much luck you will have. They will make up some excuse that it was customers fault.

codeoftherobot 03-04-2003 19:34

That is really bad of your shipping company. Gross negligence on their part and what they should have done is sent a formal letter of apology for that damage and sent some form of reimbursement for damage. If you have documented reports that when the crate was taken from your pit area to the loading area for all crates in perfect condition you can go all you want on them.

camtunkpa 03-04-2003 19:55

Shipping or breaking?
 
Is this a shipping company or a breaking company....our robot arrived late at Rutgers from Philly with the crate smashed. Our batteries had fallen out and our control board got smashed along with the machine being broken. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After much duct tape for the controller and much time from our pitcrew, the robot is up and working properly again. We've been through two tough competitions and not even a thing broke on the machine....til now!!!!!!

Rich Kressly 03-04-2003 20:12

Kudos to 222
 
222 handled their shipping fiasco in true FIRST fashion today. We've got another joystick packed and ready for you tomorrow. Now, if we all could do something to "fix" these ongoing and unnecessary shipping difficulties.

camtunkpa 03-04-2003 20:19

Thank you!!!
 
Thank you to team 103!!!!!! Your team is great and thanks a million. C-ya there tomorrow.

Joe Matt 03-04-2003 21:07

I agree, 222, you guys handeled it well. I just think it's a shame that we have huge crates that get constantly broken. Good luck and if you are at Champs, give any of us a ring and we will help you!

/Pyro 03-04-2003 22:13

When I started to open our crate at the Midwest Regiional I noticed that our door was more than half broken off. Our "door" is just one side that is screwed on that we take off. I am the one that opens and closes the crate. I closed it at GLR and I made sure to put plenty of screws in the door. I think over all we had 18-20 screws in the door. At Chicago, there were only 3 screws on the left side that were not broken off, the rest had all snapped in half. It did make it faster to get the robot out.
Because of this, when I closed it up to ship to Houston, I put close to 30 screws in it. If it comes open again, I'm gonna get upset.

Ok..thanks for letting me rant.

sevisehda 03-04-2003 22:19

4 or 5 years ago when I was walking to my teams pit first thing thursday morning I noticed the crate didn't look very true. As the team and I got closer we noticed the bottom was virtually shattered. Needless to say as we inspected the bot we noticed the corners weren't square and the drive shafts were all bent. After some calling we found out it was dropped about 4ft, some how. Every year theres always shipping horror stories. I'm not surprised to hear another.

Crating the bot is a subtle but important thing. Some teams put a fair amount of padding around and under there bot.

ZACH P. 03-04-2003 23:04

so far my team has not had any real problems with damage *crosses fingers* but the price that we have to pay for that is an overweight crate. it is really not a win-win situation.

AJ Quick 04-04-2003 00:54

These things are absurd. It is apparent that Fedex only does the shipping for FIRST because they can do things to make them money, like magically say that it was overweight and you have to pay, or actually causing problems that make them have to pay.

The storys about teams having to pay $700 dollars just to ship isn't quite right, it sounds like fedex is extorting money from these teams, and FIRST should do something about it.

Amanda Morrison 04-04-2003 01:04

I spoke too soon about my team's damage.

While running the robot for the first time the day before yesterday, one of our drills is completely wrecked (it does nothing) and our whole frame is bent.

I'm about thisclose to calling FedEx and really giving it to them. They aren't a monopoly, and if they get away with this, all teams are going to be paying thousands to ship their crates next year, which will come back as pieces of wire and some plywood.

Josh Hambright 04-04-2003 11:38

Right before we shipped our robot from chicago...it was put on the scale an weighed in at 615 (Overweight, but we wanted to ship alot of our tools and stuff so we didn't have to take them on the plane) And magicly when our teacher spoke with fedex about the charges the crate had gained nearly 40 pounds... He told them he had seen it on the scale and that they might want to check theirs out and they kinda forgot about the extra weight all of a sudden... silly fed ex trying to rip us off!

mpking 06-04-2003 11:47

We ship our robot in a crate designed for medical implements. It's surrounded by 5 inches of foam on all sides, and it's water proof.

It's also Yellow.

So far we know this crate has saved us twice. (it's going into it's 3th year) Nationals last year, alot of crates (including ours) were left outside in the rain. And again, last year, the crate was dropped (had to be at least 4 feet) upside down. We had a tower on our robot that was bent inhalf. Thankfully it was only cheap angle iron, and was only there to support something in the first few seconds. IT was easily replaced.

In the attach picture, that piece of metal is supposed to be a triangle.
http://www.tj2.org/2002/imagepages/p4250187.html

Gui Cavalcanti 06-04-2003 12:34

Fully unpacked
 
Well, after taking many pictures we finished... unwrapping... the robot. We have some rather comical damages.

- The light was ripped from the top of the robot, leaving two of it's mounting posts inside the robot. Both domes were shattered, and the reflector lens was ripped off. Ironically, both the normal and replacement lightbulbs are fine :)

- A forklift tong went straight through a 40 amp fuse. We got to see inside! Those things are awesome... The 40 amp was about 4 inches from the RC, though, so we're kind of worried... we're going to test the robot as soon as possible.

- Our frame is bent, but we can't tell if that was our driving at Philly or the forklift. I'm thinking half and half :)

- Our autonomous control panel on the robot was ripped to pieces. The left/right switch has been torn up, and the rotary switch that controlled the autonomous program settings had it's output dial sheared right off.

- There were pistachio shells all over our robot! They rammed our crate and then ate lunch over it!

Anyway, the incident has actually made me happy. Since we have to go to the Maryland State Fair and the Duel on the Delaware still, we're going to build Phoenix, a new robot based off of the drive train and pieces of Functional Decoration that embodies all that we've learned about this game. Woohoo!

Anyone have a replacement light dome set or extra suction cups they'd be willing to give us? Will trade for Fisher-Price motors...

sanddrag 06-04-2003 13:50

At the Phoenix regional we noticed someone had taken the "door" side off our crate but then put it back almost the same way with the same screws. Hrrrmmm. No damage or anything missing though. At LA all was well. We still have to wait for it to show up back at home so we'll see how that goes.

burkey_turkey 15-04-2006 23:17

Re: Fully unpacked
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gui Cavalcanti
Well, after taking many pictures we finished... unwrapping... the robot. We have some rather comical damages.

- The light was ripped from the top of the robot, leaving two of it's mounting posts inside the robot. Both domes were shattered, and the reflector lens was ripped off. Ironically, both the normal and replacement lightbulbs are fine :)

- A forklift tong went straight through a 40 amp fuse. We got to see inside! Those things are awesome... The 40 amp was about 4 inches from the RC, though, so we're kind of worried... we're going to test the robot as soon as possible.

- Our frame is bent, but we can't tell if that was our driving at Philly or the forklift. I'm thinking half and half :)

- Our autonomous control panel on the robot was ripped to pieces. The left/right switch has been torn up, and the rotary switch that controlled the autonomous program settings had it's output dial sheared right off.

- There were pistachio shells all over our robot! They rammed our crate and then ate lunch over it!

Anyway, the incident has actually made me happy. Since we have to go to the Maryland State Fair and the Duel on the Delaware still, we're going to build Phoenix, a new robot based off of the drive train and pieces of Functional Decoration that embodies all that we've learned about this game. Woohoo!

Anyone have a replacement light dome set or extra suction cups they'd be willing to give us? Will trade for Fisher-Price motors...


ok so its been a few years, but i just thought this was worth reviving the thread for:

in 2005 team 422 (now, unfortunently without gui as a fulltime* team member, though he helps tons) we got forklifted AGAIN

not to bad this time though. for the 2005 challenge we had used our leftover weight to put curved 1/8 steel sideshields on the two sides of the robot. we thought if anyone tried to ram us theyd be flipped. that never worked. fortuenntly however, when we saw we had been forklifted yet again, we rushed to discover that one of our sidesheilds had ben hit! they saved the life of TryForce, because the way the dents looked, it might have gone right into the electronics board. so what are the odds that in 2003 and 2005 the same team got beaten down by a forklift?

and gui, if you are reading this, i just want you to know that we still have a huge box full of unused fisher price motors!

Cody Carey 16-04-2006 00:06

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
This sounds absolutely atrocious.... We pay the shipping companies good money, and I for one don't expect to be jerked around!
If any teams don't get results from talking to Higher-ups in the shipping company, go to the authorities! lawsuits aren't half bad either.

hallk 16-04-2006 00:13

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
We recently redsigned our crate. There is additional support on the bottom area. More room was given to be picked up by the fork trucks. To combat being stacked or left in the rain during competitions, the craate is part of the pit design. This was all down because a few years ago we had a forklight go through the crate as well.
Yes, none of this should happen but perhaps we should consider that techincally you can ship the robot for free.

Jay H 237 16-04-2006 00:42

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
There is nothing you can do about having scuffs and scrapes on the outside of the crates and it will happen in shipping. 237's own crate is finished nicely on the outside and it has some marks on it. When the crates are put on trucks, planes, loading docks they will rub up against other objects. They can even get scuffed with the bulkhead on the forklift. Expecting to always have a pristine exterior on a crate is unrealistic.

Now, having large gouges, punctures and holes in the create is unacceptable. The problem lies in trying to figure out WHO did it. While FedEx shipped it they might have had nothing to do with the damage. The people at the venue may have damaged it during loading or unloading. FedEx doesn't load/unload the trucks at the venues, that's where the shipping/recieving department at each venue comes in. They could damage something then shrink wrap it and then load it on the truck when FedEx shows up.

At times I've had to fill in at the shipping and recieving department where I work. I can also tell you that don't be surprised if settling a claim takes weeks or even months. If you do notice damage to your crate photograph it BEFORE you open it. Take pictures of all sides. Then take more photos as you open it then finally of the contents. Also when you get the paperwork/bill of landing from the truck/shipper make a note of the damage at time of delivery when you sign for it.

Nuttyman54 16-04-2006 03:07

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Our crate magically gained at least 45 pounds. They charged us for 55 lbs over. It's the same crate we've used since our rookie year (2002), and we've never had overage charges before. The robot was 10 lbs overweight, but we can't acount for the other 45. This is all assuming that the crate weighs 280 lb crate with a 120 lb robot in it and no batteries or extras.

Adam Richards 16-04-2006 03:11

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody C
lawsuits aren't half bad either.

Because every team has the resources to hire a lawyer to work on them getting back money that won't even cover court and legal costs, right?

Nuttyman54 16-04-2006 03:17

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody C
go to the authorities! lawsuits aren't half bad either.

I'd actually recommend sending complaints to FIRST as well as the shipping company, since they're the organization that is contracting the shipping, not the teams. Not to mention they've probably got more pull with the shipping company.

Cory 16-04-2006 04:00

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54
Our crate magically gained at least 45 pounds. They charged us for 55 lbs over. It's the same crate we've used since our rookie year (2002), and we've never had overage charges before. The robot was 10 lbs overweight, but we can't acount for the other 45. This is all assuming that the crate weighs 280 lb crate with a 120 lb robot in it and no batteries or extras.

The drayage company did this to 100 at least two times while I was on the team, and possibly more since.

In my senior year, FedEx weighed our crate at 280 lbs. All we shipped in it was the robot, and the controls.

We arrived at our first regional, and drayage was saying that we had to pay around $100 in overweight fees.

So apparently on the way to Sacramento, the crate jumped from ~280 lbs to ~500 lbs.

RoboMom 16-04-2006 08:53

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54
I'd actually recommend sending complaints to FIRST as well as the shipping company, since they're the organization that is contracting the shipping, not the teams. Not to mention they've probably got more pull with the shipping company.

My suggestion would be to write a concise explanation of what you see as the problem. Have your mentor(s) attend your local team forum (should be held during the last two weeks of May) to hand this in. If your mentor(s) cannot attend, send this explanation to FIRST, Attn: team support. That way FIRST can try to address these issues, see if there is a pattern.

There are many layers and parties involved in shipping. Teams, FedEx, local drayage, SES.

If you have a Senior Mentor, also send to them.

wsansewjs 16-04-2006 09:24

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
After reading all this and learned the horror stories of the crates being damaged, I have to say that Fedex and the drayage company is the only one who is NOT executing Gracious and Professionalism.

I am proud of you guys dealt & pick up the stree and fix your own robot and do the right thing by contacting FIRST. Its really common sense for the guys at drayage company to think that there are over 500 robots built by students that cost $$$ flying all over the places need to be handled VERY careful unfortunately they aren't. This is why you come in here and tell us about so the entire FIRST community can help you guys the best we can. We are not the families of competiting robot teams, but we are a family of Gracious and Professionalism, because we know it better than anyone in the world.

-WJS :D
Team Resistance #86
Webmaster/Mentor

Kevin Sevcik 16-04-2006 10:08

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I can beat you all. After LSR, 57's crate just disappeared for about a week. Yellow Freight said they'd given it to Fed Ex. Fed Ex said they never got it, and it was nowhere to be found at the arena. Then it just magically appeared at Fed Ex and got to our shop, also in Houston, shortly after. Granted we've ended up with a crate, eventually, but I was pretty worried about the large amount of expensive tools we had packed in that crate.

StephLee 16-04-2006 21:01

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Here's an interesting story to which I STILL don't know the exact details:

Last season, our robot was supposed to be shipped home after Chesapeake. We're west of Annapolis. SOMEHOW, our robot and crate wound up (together, thankfully!!) in NEW JERSEY, the opposite direction. This wouldn't have been incredibly odd, but the 'bot STAYED there for several weeks, with no explanation that I ever heard. A few members of the team experienced some painful "seperation anxiety" while Meshach took a detour...

JaneYoung 16-04-2006 21:08

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
A few members of the team experienced some painful "seperation anxiety" while Meshach took a detour...[/quote]


AWWWW -

Rickertsen2 16-04-2006 21:37

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I have worked in a shipping and receiving department before and have seen some pretty incredible damage. On one occasion fedex actually managed to break a solid steel control arm that belonged to a Ford Explorer. I don't see how that is possible short of running it over with something. Another time, we received a shippment of rusted sheet metal brackets, in a waterfilled bag with an appology note taped to it. Other times packages would simply disappear or come in with boxes mangled beyond belief.

Cody Carey 16-04-2006 22:27

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Richards
Because every team has the resources to hire a lawyer to work on them getting back money that won't even cover court and legal costs, right?

http://powerstandards.com/FedExVerdict/
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/fedexpays.htm

Nope, wouldn't even come close to covering court costs, right adam?


Every team has a right to be treated fairly, and if it takes one team taking legal action to show FedEx that we are paying customers, then so be-it.
I have no doubt hat FIRST tries to stamp out the damage caused by deliveries every time it happens and somebody complains to them, but what they do obviously isn't showing FedEx anything, because it keeps on happening.

Note to adam: Next time, please don't respond to something that I've posted in a rude/demeaning way, because I am not trying to argue... Only to have my opinion be known.

UlTiMaTeP 16-04-2006 22:30

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I recommend not shipping batteries in the crate it has caused our crate to be overweight twice. Take the batteries to comp via someone driving, it is a lot cheaper than having to pay overweight charges. We made a lighter crate this year, we were over 400 because our crate alone was weighing in close to 250. Also they do make composite skids and crates that can come apart and are very light, it is a good investment. Normal wear and tear and objects that protrude are obviously gonna be hit, scraped or broken. Remember FIRST and FedEx sometimes stack crates, you must design your crate with the ability to withstand 1000 pounds on top of it.

Tristan Lall 16-04-2006 22:38

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP
Remember FIRST and FedEx sometimes stack crates, you must design your crate with the ability to withstand 1000 pounds on top of it.

Which is as good a reason as any to mark the crate "Do not stack", "This side up" (with an arrow), etc..

UlTiMaTeP 16-04-2006 22:40

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
Which is as good a reason as any to mark the crate "Do not stack", "This side up" (with an arrow), etc..

They will still be stacked

yodameister 16-04-2006 22:48

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP
I recommend not shipping batteries in the crate it has caused our crate to be overweight twice. Take the batteries to comp via someone driving, it is a lot cheaper than having to pay overweight charges. We made a lighter crate this year, we were over 400 because our crate alone was weighing in close to 250. Also they do make composite skids and crates that can come apart and are very light, it is a good investment. Normal wear and tear and objects that protrude are obviously gonna be hit, scraped or broken. Remember FIRST and FedEx sometimes stack crates, you must design your crate with the ability to withstand 1000 pounds on top of it.

Unfortunately, some teams cannot drive. For us to go to Nationals it is a 1720 mile drive one way...not big savings of $$$. The thought has crossed my mind to drive there anyway so we can have all of our tools, extra batteries, extra raw materials, etc.

Mr. Freeman 16-04-2006 23:03

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
Which is as good a reason as any to mark the crate "Do not stack", "This side up" (with an arrow), etc..

Quote:

6.3.2 Crate Specifications
All Crates must:
• NEW: Comply with the Wood Materials Regulations above if the crate ships into the U.S.
• Weigh 400 pounds or less in order to avoid drayage overage charges
• Be sturdily built to prevent damage to your equipment
• Have plywood construction to ensure stacking capability during transport
• "Sit" on 2 pieces of 4" by 4" lumber, spaced at least 28" apart so it can be moved by a forklift.
• Have a footprint no greater than 4' by 4' and be no taller than 5'10" (70") high. This maximum
includes the 4" by 4" lumber mentioned above.
• Be capable of being moved by a forklift
...

UlTiMaTeP 16-04-2006 23:07

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
While most of my team(s) fly, We always designate one person to drive to tow the trailer(s)

AV_guy007 17-04-2006 00:07

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
i personally have not had very good luck with FedEx about a year ago i ordered about $800 of audio equipment from 2 separate places. the arrived on separate days. the first shipment was a rack amp that was very sturdy and very well packed. when i received it there was a large dent in it as well as striped and broken screws. luckily it was covered by the warranty. the second shipment came a few days later from a completely different direction. in the boxes were 2 very large speakers. the first i opened did not strike me as damaged(i later discovered some damage to the casters on the base). the second had a hole that i could stick my hand through going through several layers of cardboard a plywood base that the speakers were siting on and the actual speaker. the grate and woofer had been completely ripped out of the speaker cabinet and internal parts were lose inside the speaker. what shocked me even more was the fact that the casters were almost completely flattened (they are very Hevay duty, the speaker weighs like 80 pounds.) the metal was bent and the plastic wheels were crushed to me this meant that they must have been dropped from fairly high and wee also impaled by something.

i found it strange that 2 packages from 2 different states that were delivered on 2 separate dates could both be damaged so badly.i eventually got a refund on shipping and to my surprise made the store i ordered them from pay for the speakers!claming they were already broken. :eek:

UlTiMaTeP 17-04-2006 00:52

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Big companies ship from multiple places. The damage sounds more like improper packing than anything.

sanddrag 17-04-2006 01:17

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I've never had anything too large shipped (15" monitor was the largest I think) but I can tell you this. About half my packages that come through UPS appear to have been dropped.

Tristan Lall 17-04-2006 01:30

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP
They will still be stacked

Freight is regularly packaged in non-stackable forms. Consider goods shipped on pallets and shrinkwrapped, for example. Or cardboard shipping containers on skids. Or 300 gallon tanks. These things might be able to handle another object being placed on top of them, but the material handlers will use their judgment in deciding whether or not to actually do so, because they, like the rest of us, want to avoid damage (and corresponding liability).

I realize that FIRST says that crates should be stackable, but if you violate 6.3.2, it's an issue between you and FIRST (and FIRST doesn't really enforce this, or especially care). Your carrier is still obligated to take care of your freight, provided that it meets their own requirements for transport and storage. If your container meets their specifications, and they stack it, or invert it, and it's marked in such a way as to clearly state that these actions are unacceptable, then you should easily be able to file a claim with them for the damage incurred. (For example, FedEx's requirements for freight are here, and here.)

This isn't to say that a strong crate is a bad idea—because even normal handling is often hard on packaging. Just give the carrier some credit for being able to read and understand simple instructions. They're not generally in the business of breaking their customers' wares.

Wolf103FM 17-04-2006 13:07

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
If you think FedEX is bad about handling things, be glad that UPS is in no way involved, When I worked in a Shipping dept, sometimes boxes would come in that were so beaten up that they just fell apart, were completely crushed, sometimes soaking wet, even got an empty box with a hole in it once, contents nowhere to be found.
Our crate has faired pretty well, just a small tear in the vinyl U on the door so far, after 2 years, and a few splinters on the edges here and there

UlTiMaTeP 17-04-2006 13:48

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Of course our crate has came back with marks and scrapes on it, and a few splinters, but we have never seen these horrible things people talk of. While an occasional accident does occur, it might be the dryage company's fault more than FedEx. Most of the problems I see relate to very weak crates that had no framing. Remember most of the unloading, loading is done by the contractor from the warehouse to the site, not fedex.

379Robocat 17-04-2006 14:24

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
When we arrived to our pit in Philly this year our robot crate was damaged. It looked like the person on the fork life didn't have it low enough and the lift went right through the wood. The bottom part of the other side of our robot was ripped open and our battery box inside was ripped apart with just batteries laying there. They took off all the locks on our crate and left some other minor damages that didn't need to be worried about. We had a crate since 2001 that had been modified to fir the robot and this year we built a brand new crate and it got damaged. As soon as we seen this we went up to pit admin and they said to write down everything that was wrong and damaged and that they would handle it from there. As far as I know nothing has been done about it. Thankfully our robot was not damaged. I hope that nothing will happen to anyone Else's robot like I had heard. Hope you get everything resolved.

UlTiMaTeP 17-04-2006 15:47

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
The bottom of the crate and bottom 12 inches or of each side need to be reinforced for forklift pickups. When the fork lifts pick up the crates out of a truck they slide them back and forth using only the lip so they can slide them in.

KenWittlief 17-04-2006 17:18

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
If your crate has been damaged in transit then you need to get assistance from someone who builds crates as part of their job.

A crate needs to be very solid to endure normal handling enroute. If the crate slips off a forklift then it needs to be even more robust to survive.

If your robot is tie-wrapped or strapped to the bottom of the crate then it is going to take a pounding.

Dillon Compton 17-04-2006 21:47

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
If your robot is tie-wrapped or strapped to the bottom of the crate then it is going to take a pounding.

We always use bungee cords; they keep the robot in place but have enough stretch that the robot can move a bit and not completly absorb all the shock.

bhweezer 19-04-2006 00:35

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
I can beat you all. After LSR, 57's crate just disappeared for about a week. Yellow Freight said they'd given it to Fed Ex. Fed Ex said they never got it, and it was nowhere to be found at the arena. Then it just magically appeared at Fed Ex and got to our shop, also in Houston, shortly after. Granted we've ended up with a crate, eventually, but I was pretty worried about the large amount of expensive tools we had packed in that crate.

The same thing happened to us after Lonestar. We spent like four hours on the phone for Fed Ex to finally say, 'OH! Your robot is still in Houston!' The robot was shipped back to the school a few days later.

UlTiMaTeP 19-04-2006 00:48

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
Freight is regularly packaged in non-stackable forms. Consider goods shipped on pallets and shrinkwrapped, for example. Or cardboard shipping containers on skids. Or 300 gallon tanks. These things might be able to handle another object being placed on top of them, but the material handlers will use their judgment in deciding whether or not to actually do so, because they, like the rest of us, want to avoid damage (and corresponding liability).

I realize that FIRST says that crates should be stackable, but if you violate 6.3.2, it's an issue between you and FIRST (and FIRST doesn't really enforce this, or especially care). Your carrier is still obligated to take care of your freight, provided that it meets their own requirements for transport and storage. If your container meets their specifications, and they stack it, or invert it, and it's marked in such a way as to clearly state that these actions are unacceptable, then you should easily be able to file a claim with them for the damage incurred. (For example, FedEx's requirements for freight are here, and here.)

This isn't to say that a strong crate is a bad idea—because even normal handling is often hard on packaging. Just give the carrier some credit for being able to read and understand simple instructions. They're not generally in the business of breaking their customers' wares.

The contractors stack crates during storage while you are at the event. The tunnel access to the dome last year at Nationals, if you remember correctly, had all the crates lined up stacked on each other. Crates will be stacked and we have to accept that.

Bill_Hancoc 19-04-2006 00:49

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
This probably isnt as bad but still should be added to the list of complaints


When i was sitting in the stands of WMR during the finals i happened to be looking over at the are by where the dj was and i saw our crate going by and then i saw them almost drop ot right there and tip it on its side. By random chance of pure luck my dad just happened to be standing under it as he was walking to the stands and he caught it.

i dont know if this is a fedex failure or a somebody else failurs but these people need to be more careful

UlTiMaTeP 19-04-2006 00:51

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillon Compton
We always use bungee cords; they keep the robot in place but have enough stretch that the robot can move a bit and not completly absorb all the shock.

We put a 4'x4'x6" piece of styrofoam with multiple ties to hold it down, and we build a special frame for it to sit on the styrofoam, but cant move around.

KenWittlief 19-04-2006 10:49

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UlTiMaTeP
We put a 4'x4'x6" piece of styrofoam with multiple ties to hold it down, and we build a special frame for it to sit on the styrofoam, but cant move around.

yes, if your bot it fastened to the floor of the crate then any shock or impact to the crate is transferred directly into the frame of your robot.

The best solution is padding UNDER your robot, all four sides and the top.

Imagine your crate going over Niagara Falls => pack it accordingly (esp if you are attending the Toronto Regional :^)

dtengineering 24-04-2006 00:08

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I agree that the damage to your crate and robot is unacceptable. I would like to take a moment, however, to stress my appreciation not only for the free shipping that FedEx donates, but also the extra assistance they have given me with regards to crossing the border. No, it's not that hard, but I always seem to need a little bit of help from the shipping and brokerage companies and it is always there.

As we have competed at both Portland and Toronto the past two years, we're probably pretty high up there in the "robot miles logged" category, and I have been very, very pleased with the service we have received. In fact this year, a piece of coroplast (about 2 sq ft) that was forgotten lying on the top of our crate on ship day, not only made it to Portland, then to Toronto, but also back to Vancouver.

In fact, the one time we did have damage to our crate (last year) it was because we didn't build it well enough.

Yes, shipping problems happen (ask team #4!) and need to be dealt with, but with over 1,000 teams and 30 events, perhaps we should recognize them for the rare occurance that they are.

I haven't searched to see if there is a white paper on crate building. We all assume, I think, that it is a simple thing, but certainly having examples of how to build durable, reasonably lightweight crates might be a big help to rookie teams who probably havent really even thought of a crate until the week before ship!

Jason

P.S. When not using the donated FedEx shipping (FedEx freight won't go East-West within Canada for some strange reason) we have had excellent service from Vince at http://www.arrowtranz.com/ It was $350 to get our 400 lb+ crate back to Vancouver from Toronto. It took about a week. He also got us across the border to Portland with no problems, too... took about two days and $250.

sanddrag 24-04-2006 00:23

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dtengineering
Yes, shipping problems happen (ask team #4!) and need to be dealt with, but with over 1,000 teams and 30 events, perhaps we should recognize them for the rare occurance that they are.

And I suppose we should give credit to Firestone tires for blowing out and killing only a couple dozen people out of millions that drove on them? Saying that screwups are okay as long as they are doing things right more than they are doing things wrong is not a logic I like to live by.

John Gutmann 24-04-2006 02:21

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
I think the bigger problem is not us saying 1 team's crate got damaged. but it is to make FedEx or and the dryage companies More aware, because 1 robot out of every team in FIRST is a big deal. but with all the shipping FedEx does for FIRST they see it on a small scale. If there are at least 1000 teams attending regionals that means shipping 2000 things right there. (to regional and back to the school) So if one robot gets damaged out of the 2000+ to FedEx they are doing good with only damaging .05% of the good they shipped for FIRST. What FIRST should do is try to make FedEx more aware of the robots and crates or have somebody that does this professionally provide plans for a solid crate with padding and the whole works. This way your robot may be protected by more then 3/8" or 1/2" of chip board or plywood. Because that will be no contest for a forklift. I think we all know that when it is crate vs. forklift the forklift always wins. period.

John Gutmann 24-04-2006 02:25

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sanddrag
And I suppose we should give credit to Firestone tires for blowing out and killing only a couple dozen people out of millions that drove on them? Saying that screwups are okay as long as they are doing things right more than they are doing things wrong is not a logic I like to live by.

I believe that he is saying that since shipping occurrences like with team #4 happen so rarely that we need to make sure that problems that happen like that are known with FIRST. He isn't saying lets have a party on Friday night too in Atlanta because we only had one shipping problem.

Ricky Q. 24-04-2006 14:01

Re: Complete Shipping Failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparksandtabs
I believe that he is saying that since shipping occurrences like with team #4 happen so rarely that we need to make sure that problems that happen like that are known with FIRST. He isn't saying lets have a party on Friday night too in Atlanta because we only had one shipping problem.

Yes, and #4's problem was more of a customs problem than a shipping problem.


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