Fair fight for curie
 

I would like to start a code of honor for the Curie group that if you reply to this message you will not fix a match. It will be hard enough in this elite group to be in the top eight with out fixing being in the mix.

And i start this with team 25

don't even ask us

We will do anything we can to help any other team, but don't ask Kingman to fix a match

With Pleasure
 

Team 103 officially signs the code of honor. We will gladly help you fix your machine and offer advice and support, but we will not be part of collusion/match fixing/artificial score boosting. Thank you Team 25.

The fix is not in
 

I can assure you that team 71 will play every match in the best interest of our alliance and the ONLY reason the opposing alliance's stack will stand is if it is in our alliance's best interest.
So please, don't ask.

Sincerely,

Brian Beatty

Re: The fix is not in
 

What Brian said.

Boy, is this a good division, or what? The only thing is that I'm getting tired of playing against Beatty when all the marbles are on the line (just kidding). Here's hoping that it doesn't happen.

-Chris

Team 188 also finds that it is better to play your best and let the teams decide the outcome. We also are against setting up matches so don't ask. Can't wait to get there and see how we fair. To team 71, thanks for the great final matches in Western Michigan. We were proud to be on the same field as you and the rest of your great alliance.

cyberblue signs the code.

Team 322 has not and will not fix any matches.

395 Signs the Code
 

Team 395, 2TrainRobotics signs the code. We're looking forward to competing fairly with you all. Curie is truly an all star alliance. Let's give it our best and see how things play out.

Wayne

i do not sign it
 

For some of the people signing this you don't seem to realize what happens if both stacks are taken out. Both sides get hardly any elimination points and then lose the chance of getting in the top eight. Team 386 will ask to keep both stacks up and will not sign this code of honor because we have had this happen before and the score was 6-1 with us winning but only getting 8 QP's. it is not fair to the teams in the top eight who worked hard to get there and end up getting 1-3 matches like this and end up losing their spot and even if possible lose their chance in the finals. I could see not fixing matches in the quarters,semis, and finals but during regular competition I see where it is needed. I would think twice if I was the teams signing this if I were you.

TEAM VOLTAGE

Re: i do not sign it
 

Fixing matches, means:

Someone approaches you and offers to let you get a high score if you agree to not knock their stacks down and not interfere, basically it's 4 robots working together, wiht only 2 getting an awesomely high score. It's kinda like cheating allthough there is no rule against it. Now everyone wants to get a high score, but it should be done fairly and without collaboration from your opponents. Every team that has signed this says that it is quite obvious that you wouldn't want to knock over stacks in qualifying rounds, unless you had to in order to win. Obviously if you're winning by 100 points with a minute to go, you'll stay away from their stacks for the extra multiplier. Team 74, allthough not in curie will not make any agreements, because we don't think it's a fair way to play the game. Had we made agreements we might not have lost our last 2 qualifying matches, and would have stayed at the #3 seed, instead of dropping to #6. So, even though we lost a better seed, we were happy that the outcomes of the matches reflected the ability of our robot, and that is was done fairly. And if a top 8 team is worried about losing their spot, they should work with their alliance partner to win, othrewise they don't deserve to be a top 8 seed.

Re: i do not sign it
 

What is not fair is the 9th seed team that played the game honorably and fairly being denied a chance at the elims because higher seeded teams fixed their matches.

Everybody has a bad round. To quote Kamen "the game isn't fair". Get over it. Winning isn't the whole world.

This is a Code of Honor- a term you used. I agree with your closing- I would think twice about this- and what the term honor means

WC
:(

If all teams play on the same field and same rules then the best teams will be the best teams. By giving yourseves high scores to elevate your ranking does not mean you are the best team, just the most maniplative. I watched the Florida matches and was turned off by the colaberation. I did notice that the winning alliance was one that was not a picker to start out with and only moved up after all of the other teams picked each other. If you can't play the game to the intent of the game then you do lose out in the long run.

In the Florida regional(which 386 was at) the matches were being played where the 2 alliances made an agreement to leave each other stacks alone that way win or lose you both get hugh qualifying points, the game is still 2 against 2 not what others said where we had 4 working together. If you don't make this agreement you go in to the game and the score is like 40-20 and win or lose the match you points are low, we are not trying to get the high score to go in the record books we are just trying to help both sides get good qualifying points because with the agreement the score is like 85-60 and then both teams get real good qualifying points win or lose. As I stated above we won a match 6-1 with only 8 QP's and ended up dropping from 8th to like 15th even though we won. So if you call it fixing matches go ahead but I don't think it is wrong......first off in FIRST isn't it true that you help each other out....I think it is something called gracious professionalism...... matter on or off the playing field we are helping the other teams out.

TEAM VOLTAGE 386

You can put the Baxter Bomb Squad on the list.

on behalf of team 48 Delphi ELITE, i sign this code of honor... no match fixing here...

Not only has FIRST come right out and publicly said that any "rigging of the game" is not in the spirit of the COMPETITION (see the forums), but any team which benefits from this non-competitive attitude would necessarily have their ranking legitimacy questioned.

Also, if my team were picking alliance partners, we would be looking for a proven track record and/or special features that fit well with our robot and strategy to win. Any match where a team fails to knock over a stack that would have resulted in that alliance winning will have their strategical capability questioned, and may be passed over for this reason alone.

Needless to say, my team will not participate in any rigging of the game, in any way, shape, or form. Do not attempt to legitimize it when speaking to my team, for you will be wasting both your time and ours.

Playing smart
 

I think the thing that you need to realize is that just because a team does not make an agreement does not mean that they will attack the multiplier stacks. Most of us figured out a long time ago that is not the smart way to play this game. The priorities in any match need to be as follows:
1.) Win the match
2.) Leave the opponents with as many points as possible
It is important to keep the priorities above in the correct order.

MattB
Coach
Team 902 - The Delphi Robohawks

Well said !!

Go Paco!
 

As an adult member of Team 48, let me echo Paco's statement - Delphi E.L.I.T.E. is proud to add our name to this code of honor.

Our last competition, the Canadian Regional, was free of any prearranged agreements, and what resulted was a very intense, highly competitive, immensely exciting competition. I'm looking forward to the challenge of competing in the Curie Division with so many highly respected, high quality teams. I fully expect that I will look back upon this upcoming Championship as the most exciting event I've experienced in my three years as a member of the FIRST community.

We on 229 always play it smart. We will go into each match and do what is best to achieve the win.

Those that have worked with us in the past, know we would never agree to somethign like this, simply because it lowers the amount of strategic options we have.

For every move, there is a counter move. Why agree to not use certain counter-moves? We'll let other stacks stand, if it's in our best interest to do so. Otherwise.... timmmmmmmmmmber.

Why would we make our opponents agree to leave our stacks alone? If we need them up, we will defend them. If we get beaten... at least we tried our hardest, and lost fair and square.

We play to win, not to seed.
Sorry to all those who disagree with this philosophy, but I believe that if your not at least playing to win, your not really playing.

MVRT 115 Will play FARE!

Re: Playing smart
 

Well stated.

I think there was some question as to whether we fixed the match where we achieved our High Score of 383 QPs. But we did not. The match was in favor of us because on of the oppositions robots had flipped over, and I believe that the team thought it was in it's best interest to leave our stack alone so they would recieve more points. Not to mention we were well prepared to defend our stack had the robot attempted to knock down our stack. So refering to what MattB said above I think both of the alliances had our priorities in order. But there was no pre-match agreement made. And if we could have afforded to go to Nationals this year/we were in Curie. I would sign this honor code on behalf of my team.

-Thanks
Jonathan

Team 470, just as at Great Lakes Regional, will not aide our opponent because they ask us to, nor will we ask that of our opponents.

Team 610
 

We definitely won't be getting up to any of those deeds. I am happy that a lot of teams have replied to this post and have given their word of honour.

Deciding, during the game, not to attack your opponents if they are not attacking you is one thing. Deciding upon this before the round, is dishonourable.

I urge all teams to seriously consider what this agreement entails.

And props to woburn for qualifying. Well done. See you in Houston

Now, those of you here who are saying that fixing matches is okay, your reasoning for this is fairness, right? What about the teams that spent weeks upon weeks building a stacking mechanism, to achieve great stacks. They built a robot that could accomplish this task. They wanted to stack, so they thought of a solution. Now, this fixing matches thing is a solution, but is it in the interests of grasious professionalism? Personally, I dont think so.

Now, I'm no where near the decision making end of Team 108. I've talked to some members of our team about it, and its usually the same result... "Well....its not right to do.."

So I don't speak for Team 108, but I know I wouldn't be caught fixing a match..

::shrugs:: theres my two cents

I guess you just don't get it. Thats too bad. Fixing matches is not gracious professionalism. Giving your opponents a fair chance and playing your best is. This premade arrangement cheats anyone not a part of that round by artificially inflating the scores. You think that is fair or gracious?

Good luck in the competition. I hope you can succeed without making these deals and eventually see the light.

WC

consider it signed
 

some of my greatest friends are a part of this division. may we all play fair and all succeed. see you in a few days.

Their are alot of Excellent Teams in the curie division this year.

Most of you Regional Winners and Finalists. You got that position because you played fair. By not fixing Matches and helping your alliance partners repair their robots before there next match even though it just rolled around doing nothing. That My friends is sportsmanship. I guess that would be my definition of G.P. (Gracious Professionalism) Helping other teams repair their robots so that they may also enjoy the competition is GP.

But to ask Teams to not go after each others stacks or to simply be nice to your opponents points is unfair and makes the match boring. Spectators like to watch things being knocked over and the beating and banging for KOTH thats why this game is called Stack Attack. Whats there to watch if u take knocking the stacks away. 1 m 20s worth of fighting for KOTH?

I see that you guys want to help each other to seed with the Highest QP's and all but it takes away the competition.


May all the teams Travel safely to Houston TX and return home safely. And May all teams participating this year in the Nationals play FAIRLY by the RULES and play with GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM!

It is interesting, that it is difficult to find definitive proof, based on objective reason, as to why match fixing is either right or wrong. I can't provide any of these proofs.

All I can say, is that this debate also exists in the world of sports, and their take on it is quite relevant. I am certain that the officials in sport have contemplated this situation numerous times, and their decision is clear, it is wrong. Professional athletes often destroy their careers by believing that what they are doing (fixing matches) can either; not be proven, or is not wrong.

And if you still think you won't get caught, or you think that there is nothing wrong with it, try it, and you see what happens, because this topic makes it clear that the majority of FIRST has decided that such dealings are illegal.

Please comply with the wishes FIRST and remember that winning is nice, but not essential.

I would love to sign this, but I can't speak for my whole team. 818 has not been part of any collusion so far, and we've made sure that everyone on the team knows what the collusion entails. 818 will almost definitely not be part of any collusion at Nationals.

If the whole point of FIRST was to get into a dog-eat-dog competition, every man for themselves, getting to the top by any means possible, then sure, I'd say match fixing was fine.

If everyone did match fixing to get to the top the same way, that would be fine. But sadly, this is an attempt to circumvent the way that we SHOULD be playing the game.

I see this as a way to one-up HONEST teams who work hard to play the game as it was meant to be played.

The last time I checked, FIRST did not stand for "Fraudulently Improving Rankings by Staging a Truce", or "Flagrantly Inconsiderate Rigging of Score Tabulation". Perhaps you should re-examine what you're doing, and how it meshes with the FIRST mission.

If winning is the only thing you care about, then you need to reconsider why you're a part of FIRST.

If fixing matches is the only way you think you can win, then I personally believe that you need to work on developing your own self-confidence, as well as perhaps considering a more versatile design for future competition.

We're a rookie team this year. We attended only one regional, the J&J. Being one of only five rookie teams at the regional, and knowing a lot about team 25's bot, we were quite intimidated by what we were up against. We did our best to fit in with the big boys, though, and although we had our losses, we persevered and did well without any "scoring aides". We showed our stuff, and many were impressed.

The game is a lot more fun when everyone plays by the same rules. That's why J&J was SO great! As someone else said, 44 great teams, all playing the same game. It was a fantastic time, especially for our first regional!

But hey, if you want to play the game by your own rules, far be it from me to tell you otherwise... but what I personally feel is that instead of showing everyone that your team has a sense of gracious professionalism, you're showing them that you're more interested in just getting ahead of the others the easy way.

Well, as for me and Team Mercury, we would never "butt in the lunch line".

Excellent Excellent point. Now thats one of the many teams who understands the meaning of Gracious Professionalism & FIRST and honor the rules and regulations with respect and dignity.



Bravo!