2004 Nats??
 

I know I am jumping REALLY far ahead but I was wondering how many of you think next years Nationals will be back in Orlando.?

I hope it will be...so I dont have a 18 hour bus ride next year

I liked nats in Florida. It was a fairly good venue, with fairly good stuff to do after the competition. Not only that, airfare was fairly cheap. The only problem was that Diseny over charged by like 150% for their packages. Oh yeah, then I could also see all my friends on teams from Florida.

Cory

I don't know
 

I wouldn't know because I'm not in Houston for nationals this year. I'm an alumni from an Orlando team and I LOVED Nationals at Disney.

What do you guys think? Is Houston better than Orlando, or is Orlando better than Houston? I know I wish soooo bad it was back in Orlando but Disney did overcharge. It had something to do with them loosing money though because they usually charge for parking and I guess those days they had to give out the parking for free. Still though, Orlando in my oppinion seems like the natural choice for nationals. I miss it :(

The Reliant complex is an amazing place for the Championship event. Granted, I live in Houston, and might be a little biased, but it is incredible to be in the Astrodome and to see the pits laid out in front of you. 118's pit is a stone's throw from the home bullpen, which is cool, but the whole building is amazing, historically and architecturally. And if you like orange, are you in luck! The biggest difference is the size of the pit area themselves

Even though the individual pits themselves aren't any bigger, there is tons of room for people to spread out and test their robot. I love it. And if we come back next year (the big test will be tomorrow afternoon), I'd like to see nationals opened back up to all teams. We have the space for it, and the more the merrier.

I really don't like this whole qualifying deal. I mean it just hurts the students feelings. I am VERY lucky that I was an even numbered team on my last year of FIRST. That was the first year they initiated the qualifying. I think it was probably an issue of money and not being able to support so many teams. With as many teams as they have now, if all were able to go to nationals then they'd probably need 1 or 2 more fields.

Though I hope first comes back to Orlando (my hometown), if it means that they were to get rid of qualifying, Houston would be a much better place to hold it.

And the discussion begins...

I think that Nats will probably be somewhere entirely different next year. The Reliant complex was decent, but the pits and fields were way too far apart. You don't realize how far it is until you have to lug a robot there and back about 5 or 6 times in one day.

As for qualifying, I'm afraid it's probably here to stay. The criteria will only get tougher as time goes on. FIRST is just too big to have an open national event. It's disappointing, but there's just no way to make it so that 800+ teams can get an open invitation to Nationals.

Qualifying makes sense. Nationals has to be a little exclusive to be special. And FIRST isn't about an annual vacation.......attending TWICE in a high school carreer is fair.

There was MUCH walking at Houston.......but I liked it.

It would be unfair to odd teams return to Disney next year.

Random cities around the country would be cool.......like those BALL-CENTERED sports do for championships! lol

Lisa T =)

well...
 

Ok now that Nationals are over, for those of you that did attend ....would you say Houston or Orlando??

While qualifying is probably here to stay, FIRST needs to move the Nationals further back for next year. I don't think its fair for teams to have 15 minutes to decide if they'll be shipping the robot. 3 days is not much time to prepare a trip like this.

i'm still wondering if nationals could be held after APs. i know that many schools (silly floridans, for example :p) get out right after APs, but that time of year is much better, as teachers can't kill us poor students for missing school :).

i'd love to have it back at disney next year, as when i went last year, it was definitly one of the coolest things i've ever done. my team was prety liberal, and walking around the parks/competition with friends and everything, was just amazing. i know the same thing probably happened at houston, but i dunno, disney world is sort of magic, in a way :p. either that, or i've seen too many of those commercials...

:) Some ideas

Houston Better for:

Lots of pit space, you could walk around. Space to sit in the stands to eat a meal. The view of the pits from up in the stands was awesome. Lighting was good. 4 fields separated enough that the sound did not interfere from one field to the other.

Epcot Better for:
The excitement that the closeness of pits and playing fields brings. You got absolutely absorbed by the event. It was easier to watch other divisions events. Easier to move from pits to playing field for quick repairs.

Ideas to improve at Houston -
An easier way to move between the buildings.
Video on a screen behind the playing field -timers were tough to see from the stands.
Standings displayed near the playing fields.


I think both locations have good and bad points.
I like the idea of a new location each year - Lots of big cities have Domes and Convention Centers linked - like INDIANAPOLIS!

Although I agree with this statement, I do think that not just any location be considered. Similar to the Super Bowl, the nationals should be kept in the southern states such that it is a warmer climate, making it more enjoyable. This is more than likely why Houston was chosen. No offense to those who live farther north (I used to live in Calgary myself), but a colder climate would just be more difficult to work with.

Re: well...
 

I wasn't at nationals but...

1

2

Personally, I think Houston. Before I get chewed out, consider this:


Epcot is becoming too small... I remember last year, trying to find seats in the small bleachers behind any divisional field (besides Einstein, which was sweltering hot anyway). I remember a space only the size of the pits to contain the pits. While some would call it "cozy," I think it limits the growth potential of the largest competition FIRST currently has. I feel with a venue as large and spacious as Reliant Park, there is much more room for growth. With that much space avaliable, maybe next year there could be 5 divisions, with 400 teams able to qualify. At the rate FIRST is growing, there will be well over 1000+ teams very soon, and if only 300 are allowed to advance, it becomes farther and farther away for teams. Inside Reliant Stadium, many more fields can easily be built with room to spare, and in the Astrodome, the pits can be expanded exponentially. Just because a shoe doesn't fit now does not mean it won't be grown into. I think it just needs a chance to find out what FIRST is and what it's about before spirit can develop. The walk from pits to fields can be overcome in many different ways, from splitting the fields and pits (2 divisions with associated pits in one place, the other 2 in the other), or signing waivers allowing golf carts to move teams around. All in all I enjoyed Houston a lot more this year than Epcot last year. I am curious to see what others think though, so we'll see what happens.

The only gripe I had with EPCOT is size- but that's fixable..


Houston, on the other hand, kinda dissapointed me.. I felt trapped in the stadiums- in EPCOT you could just go in the park for lunch, at any restaraunt you liked.. And the food prices were actually better- I never thought I'd see that day

The walks back and forth really bothered me.. I never understood why they just didn't open up the big black gates so that you didn't have to walk all the way around all of the time... This killed us when 111 flipped us in the semis and we had to run back to the pits to get a 10 tooth sprocket (which had been sheared)- first time all year we didn't use our arm to self-right ourselves...

And when I tried to go up to the top to get a cool 360 degree effect with my camera, the security lady said that FIRST didn't rent the top three levels.. I offered to rent it for 30 seconds, but she wouldn't let me do so.


Disney already has everything set up for its tourists, and in my opinion it's the best place for the Championship Event.. Hopefully they'll drop down their prices.

I heard some rumors that Disney was considering building a permanent area for FIRST. It will also be used for concerts and other things as well. I wasn't at Housin but having to walk 5-6 minuts to get to a field seems excessive, thats 10 minuts per trip and with 6 matches. An entire hour wasted just moving the bot. Plus during finals when time is crucial teams can't go to there pits to repair/resuply as easy.

Epcot has almost unlimited room and setup options because it all tents. They can enlarge stands and pit sizes to match the amount of teams. Also being able to go from competition to the park in 2 minuts is a great perk. My last year in HIgh School we stayed at the Bayou, on of Disneys hotels and I didn't leave the park all week. The buses come every few minuts inside the park compared to the hourly shuttles to go outside. Plus the fact that in 2000 they launched a rocket to Mars during Nats. Florida has a ton of perks and I hope Nats return ther next year.

I agree with the superbowl idea.

There should be a raffle for cities that will hold nationals. Why not have them in the Staples Center or Dodger stadium? (Don't ask me where pits would be :-) ) Its not very hot here in April

Disney
 

Every year over memorial day weekend I play in a roller hockey tournament in Wide World of Sports. In addition, there is a baseball and soccer tournament going on at the same time. I think that this would be a great place to have the nationals. They could set up the pits in the arena they use for hockey, have the fields under tents out on the soccer fields, and have Einstein in the baseball stadium. The walk from teh soccer field to the statdium takes less than two minutes. Plus, you can take the buses to the parks to eat, or eat at the all-star cafe that is on site.

no offense, but why would the cities want to hold nationals? and why would it be good for FIRST? i believe that FIRST sent letters asking if they could hold the event there. All in all, if a city was dependent on tourism then FIRST would not be good 4 them because we clog up all the hotels and such. plus it must be fairly cheap, because FIRST is not for-profit, but it still wont exist if its nothing but a huge hole economicaly.

While giving his founders award speech, Dean told the Texas governer that he couldnt get the award for holding the event for one year, but that they'd have to see about it next year. I understand this is part of Dean's sense of humor, but doesn't that hint pretty strongly that we will be back for at least one more season? Also, changing from Disney to Houston was hard this year, why would FIRST want to make another venue change this season?

I was told by our mentors that this year we'd really see who is in FIRST for the learning aspect. For many years, many students tried to join the team for the "free ride to florida." I go to a FIRST event to participate in the FIRST event. Last year I didn't even go to the team party (the competition itself is party enough). I think by holding events in places other than Disney, it sort of weeds out those who are in it for a cheap vacation, and is a push forward for those who are actually involved for the inspiration and recognition of science and technology.

There's something to be said for luring people in with the promise of a trip to Walt Disney World, then inspiring them to go onto to greater things.

It's certainly more interesting to think about, and probably more worthwhile than assembling a group who's already tech-savvy and excited to participate.

The Army doesn't find new recruits on its bases, y'know.

Amen!

BTW, our trip to Phoenix regional we wanted to follow Chatsworth' example and take a few from each rookie to the trip and our 8th graders. In addition, I couldn't find a videographer from our 2 schools willing to take the trip, so my daughter's friend, a student "pro" videographer from another local high school without a robotics' team, volunteered to go.

School officials suddenly stepped in (hadn't been to meetings for months, altho kept up-to-date with team emails) and said no on any "outsiders" going. They said the jr hi would never approve the students' absence, another high school would never approvee their student's absence to attend our trip, and each "outsiders" student would have to have an accompanying parent cuz of liability.

I got the school's approval of their absences and outsiders' parents joined them on the trip.

Our videographer and his father were wonderful. In Phoenix, inspired by all going on, they bought a vcr to donate to the team and get the "feed". Our high school students said that father videographer was "cool". I let him know they said that.

Back home after Phoenix the student videographer was so impressed with the whole experience he asked to join our team and is editing a variety of videotapes for us (corporate sponsor, recruit new members, californiaconnected.org, ...)

Weeks after Phoenix, guess what I learned.

That father videographer is VP of Northrop Credit Union. *hits hand to head* It never occurred to me to ask what he does for a living. I was appreciating the favor they were doing for us. I didn't want to impose more on them than they were willing to give.

Now a father, a son, a Northrop VP, has been inspired by the FIRST experience.

ps. those 8th graders parents were very inspired too and one especially began to brainstorm about all his connections that could help.

Our students are talking about how Phoenix changed (bonded, inspired) our team hugely for the better.

Thank you Phoenix!

If the problem is that FIRST is getting too big for Disney, maybe they will end up remving the even/odd rule for next year. Now that its been 2 years, it would be fair to do so. Perhaps the move from disney was only until they thought it was fair to restrict more teams from going to nationals. I wish everyone could go to nats, its much more fun than any regional, and much more inspiring IMO. However, I think they are at least going to keep the current restrictions unless they make more than 1 national tournament, which isnt really a national tournament.(Oops, keep saying nationals, I guess technically its called the championship).

Houston was a good place. The walk back and forth wasnt so bad in my opinion. As good as disney though? Heck no...but thats partly cuz I'm a fan of the whole atmosphere Disney has going, which seems very lacking in the astrodome and Six Flags. I would prefer Disney, they are better equipped and probably the only place which can hold us.

I heard this too...a new convention center being built in Orlando, with FIRST in mind. That would be AWESOME...I was at Houston, but I really didn't like the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium as the site for the nats...seemed kind of weird that an event like FIRST would be held in stadiums for baseball and football ^_^' Maybe when FIRST has enough money, we'll get our own arena! Anyway, I'm looking forward to nationals in two years, and I *really* hope that it'll be back in Orlando...

2004 Nats
 

Nationals should be in Phoenix next year!! Right now it is 75 degrees here with a nice breeze. Plus, there is so much to do here!!

If you haven't been keeping up on events, then here's a brief overview:
Disney did not like FIRST. They just didn't want them there anymore. That's one of the reasons FIRST left them.
Secondly, it was biased toward the east coast, so it made travel more tedious for west-coast teams.
Reliant stadium actually does want to host the event, and can gain a good chunk of public attention. It is also centered in the country, so everyone (just about) makes the same amount of travel.
More than likely, FIRST will stick w/ the Reliant stadium.

It cost less for a cross-country flight then it does for a flight to Houston.

Where'd you get that gem from?

HA! That's a laugh. FIRST was a god send for WDW. It filled hotels with 15,000 kids durring the slow period and inflated attendence figures for Wall Street. FIRST will go back to Disney. Simple as that.

Go and look at the polls out there now, Epcot is winning by over 50%.

From what I know from some engineers that I know that have talked to some of the people from FIRST, 2 reason as to why FIRST left Disney this year where
a: because of cost
and
b: because the could not find a date that both FIRST and Disney would agree on....
I dunno, just what I heard!

Here is the real scoop
 

The location of nationals for next year has not been decided, but among the possibilities are Epcot, the City of Orlando, Reliant, and several others. Dave Brown of FIRST told me the competiton was put out for bid. The FIRST competiton was not held at Epcot this year because of scheduling conflicts, not because Disney hates FIRST. (Greg Hale of Disney is on the FIRST BoD!)

Honestly I don't know where that garbage comes from,
but don't state as fact things that are mere speculation.

There are problems at any venue - Texas this year was great - but if the weather hadn't cooperated, it wouldn't have been quite as much fun. The FIRST events have become so large that accommodating them is a big job, that very few venues can handle. (The Team Hammond mentors were suggesting Vegas, but I don't think that will happen!)

Just chill, and feel the thrill.

I think that the rose bowl would be a great place for nationals...there is plenty of room, it's california so the wether is always mild (tho the tropical climate of floria is REALLY nice) and if they use tents they will be able to adjust to accomadate more teams. The only problem with that would be the lack of outside activities(ie:disneyworld, six flaggs)

Re: Here is the real scoop
 

Greg Hale's a really nice guy. It sucks, somewhat, that they made him Chief Safety Officer of the Walt Disney Company.

Anyway, might I suggest y'all look into the Anaheim Convention Center? It's a large, indoor facility, it's located in a tourist-driven economy with plenty of hotel rooms and convenient transportation, and it's across the street from both Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure. :)

To me, that seems like the perfect shift away from Epcot.

ok one question... at epcot the pits and fields were all out in the parking lots in tents right?

we have got engineers here right?

why wouldnt they just make the tents bigger?

even better! :D

Re: Re: Here is the real scoop
 

I'd happily settle for that!

yeah, why dont we all get there a week early and build nationals with all the engineers we have? I'm sure if you have that many creative minds collaborating you would end up with some pretty genius and efficient ways to save space. j/k, this probably wouldnt be practical.

I'm afraid the saying...great minds think alike is not entirely true. It would be a majorly huge mistake.:D

i think if dean can build a 2 wheeled balancing scooter he could think of a way to fit more ppl at epcot

i think it wasnt at epcot just because of timing and scheduling, houston could ever compare with the nostalgia and atmosphere that EPCOT had.

The tents did get bigger, from 1999 to 2001 the tent size almost doubled each year. In 2001 it was mentioned the pit tent could hold more than 3 747s lengthwise. The stands on Einstein could hold 12k+. The only size complaint I had was with the seating for the division fields.

Exactly, also think of all the cash we bring to Disney world. At 5 days in Disney I easily spent 150$+ on food. And spent plently of money in the parks and stores. Teenagers are a prime market for disney.

As for the bias on location. To be cnetral we'd have to play somewhere is Kansas. If a team has to fly 3 hours to get somewhere why not fly 4. It could be argued that Nats should be held in NH or CN because of the rediculously high density of teams in that area. Florida is by far centralized but it meets therequirements of FIRST; size, hotels, recreation and climate.

personnaly i think it would be pretty cool to have it in California. Florida is nice and Texas is ok but you have to admit that California would be pretty awesome. I am sure they have tons of places that are large enough to have the Nationals at.


just my thoughts.......

Sorry for the confusion everyone.
What I heard was from FIRST and others who had talked to FIRST. This isn't just coming from me.
Heck, I'd love to have it in orlando anyway!!!!

Cal!!
 

California really would be a nice place to have it! I just got back from Cal for another robotics competition I was in about 2 weeks ago. It was beautiful, weather and everything were great...kindda on the cold side though! But it would be a MAJOR change from Flat Land Florida! lol

I heard, from a very reliable source...

My team leader was talking to a FIRST official, and the team leader said that:

1. The 3 year contract with Reliant Park, Houston, TX, and Six Flags is just a rumor. (It is not true)

2. FIRST is already looking at different spots to have the Championship Event... it IS in the South.

3. A large city in California may be where The 2004 Championship event will he held... (Think L.A. , and I'm not talking about Lower Alabama here, or somewhere near or possibly Anaheim? Could Disneyland, and Disney's California Adventure be a possibility next year?)

4. We may also be back in Florida.

5. The event may even have a new time frame!

But, hey, who knows?

I have never been to FL for a FIRST comp, but I think I would rather be there than Texas.

I hope that FIRST doesn't have Nat's in CA because the cost of the flights would be huge, i also understand thats what the west coast teams have had to do but I think the nest place for Nat's is somewhere more centralized in the US to help ease the cost to everyone.

Is there any possibility that Nats could be in the summer so school is not missed and AP exams are not disrupted. Schools in the Northeast typically get out I think in Mid June so maybe if FIRST can have the Nats sometime like late June early July so that teams that qualified in the last week of Regionals have some time to decide and earn money to go to Nats. LEAVE NO GOOD TEAMS BEHIND!!!!!!!

As for the location I said it once and I've heard about it again and I think the rumor is becoming true is that Boston may very well be the location of the 2004 Nationals next year. That is from a very credible source however, this is not definite however there are only three locations being decided and all I know is Boston is one of them. The reason I was told was to bring FIRST closer to it originated from. Lastly since I was told this information I figured only two places would be suitable for such an event. The Fleet Center in Boston home of the Celtics, and Bruins. I'm not sure about room though. However, a much stronger guess would be the Bayside Expo Center. that place is huge and it could easily host Nationals. Anyways this is what I heard thought I would share.