Comments of Rally in the Valley
 

Rally in the Valley was a very interesting competition. All the teams played really well, and was a really competitive event.

There was some controversy at Rally, but I don't want to really want to get into it. But only to say that it was the first time we were ever ordered to take a section of our robot off in the last match in the finals. That section was our wedge.

Congratulations to all who participated in it, and for team 95 for hosting the event.

Yes I would have to say it was a good day for all today, but on behalf of not only my team, 151, but also 166 and 501, we stillare really sorry about the whole issue in the finals, we had no intent of you having to remove your wedge, or any other part of your robot for that matter, but it was still a couple of great matches, and congratulations on the win.

-Alex, 151

DOES THIS MEAN 151 WERE RUNNERS UP????!!!??!?!

NO WAY!

:)!


Greg

Thanks for starting this thread, I'll be interested to see what people have to say. Feedback is great, don't worry about hurting our feelings :) .

I missed the finals, so anyone who was there want to fill me in?

I would like to thank the teams that subbed in for the no shows, it made our lives much easier. Thats GP, playing a round for no points just for the fun of it and to help everyone out. 501, 238, 190 and both 88's come to mind, but I'm sure i am forgetting some one. THANK YOU!

Also, thanks to all the teams, the turn around time between match's for some teams was next to nothing, but everyone kept up and we finished qualification rounds about an hour early. Hows that for noteworthy?


Again, comments on anything are welcome.

-Andy A.

Rally was a great time for us! We loved the best out of three in the finals instead of collective score. We learned a lot from your invitational, Thank you for letting our students shadow you in the electronics department and please say Thank You again to Mrs. Currier for passing her invitational manual on to our team. It will be very handy for us when we host our invitational October 11.
BTW- my team loved the breakfast table you had set out it was a great idea, and our team visited it often!
Your concession stand was awesome! So affordable!
We had a great time with all of the teams that attended, and we hope you all can make it to our invitational.
Thanks for allowing us to sub a round which gave our underclassmen a chance to drive.

Good stuff!
 

2 Hot Dogs, Chips, and a Coke....3 BUCKS!!!

YOU GUYS RULE!!!

Maybe the Meadows and Verizon Center could take a few tips from you guys!

Congrats,
Andy Grady

I have to say the food was great and the price was right... I had soo much too eat... I got kind of hot though wearing the wig... I liked it and I think I'll wear it to all the post season events...

Great job!
 

Thank you 95 for putting on a GREAT Event! (And yes, Andy Grady did a great job as well!)

Also, thanks to 121 for picking us as an alliance partner and even flipping us back up. Way to be Gracious Professionals.

95, one of the best parts of your event was your time keeping pit announcer. ;)

can someone pplease put up some sort of brackets up? im curious to see who placed where

Ok this is from memory,

#1 seed 151
#2 seed 121
#3 seed 131
#4 seed 885

First alliance:
151, 166, 501

Second alliance
121, 131, 134

Third Alliance
885, 190, 88 (The real one)

Forth Alliance
238, 213, 88 (The 2001 version)

First semifinals
was
151, 166, 501 (Red) vs. 238, 213, 88 (The 2001 version) (Blue)

151 won the first one by a big margin
than in the second round it seemed like 238 came back, but 151 managed to slip by with 1 bin.

Second Semifinals
was
121, 131, 134 (Red) vs. 885, 190, 88 (The real one) (Blue)
121 alliance won both

In the finals it was
151, 166, 501 (Red) vs. 121, 131, 134 (Blue)

The 121 alliance won both times

Maybe Andy G. can recall more info than me.

Great Finals...
 

Hi All,

Kyle, you got everything right on the dot without the need of my help! I will add that the elimination tornement was 2 out of 3 which made the finals much more exciting than the elimination point system. FIRST definately should go back to that format next year. Also, big time credit to team 95, who had their robot take a sit in the elimination rounds just so the teams who traveled could all play. I really can't say enough about how awsome those guys were and how well they dealt with some of the issues that popped up in the day. This is why Ralley was and will continue to be a success.

Great Job to All,
Andy Grady

i still cant believe we got first seed!

I was wondering... To everyone that went and the people that saw me... Should I keep the wig???

MY COMPLAINTS
 

ok everybody, i've been quiet too long. Im gonna try to be as nice as possible.

I understand some things that went wrong could not be unavoided. Things like missing cables, scoring system mess ups, etc. It happens and is understandable.

What is NOT understandable is how uneducated the refs were. A few never even saw a first event, and it showed.

The whole finals drama that occured should not have happened. The wedge has been there since the first day at BAE. New England teams should now this by now. The wedge is there to take away a pushing surface. It is also there to remove teams from the HDPE. If a team can make a device to latch on to the top, we can have something to take them off (thanks Andy).

Now after I flipped over Choas then DE-flipped them should have shown everyone it was not my intention to flip teams over. Only 2 other teams ended up on their backs because of us. Team 95 flipped onto 88 right after autonomous because of us but the wedge wasnt even down. 501 also went over, but we were trying to get onto the top of the ramp and they were in the way...sorry guys.

But what really got me mad was the fact that we had to change our robot design before the last match. According to the head ref our wedge design was not "Graciously Professional". Whatever that means. A couple teams complain and now we need to spend half an hour putting lexan where that wedge was.

BUT WHAT REALLY GOT ME ANGRY was some guy from 88. He was an adult who had the nerve to come to me and my drive team and start yelling at us. Now you can say this post isnt gracious, but what that guy did was uncalled for. He said we were purposefully damaging other teams when all we were doing was playing the game.

So even without a wedge we won the whole thing. So just to spite some of you jealous poeple we're adding another wegde on our "piece of blank" (according to what that guy said. Think before you talk next time guy)

Thats my gripes with Ralley and Im sorry to say because of this bad experince we wont be coming to ralley ever again.

Go ahead and shut this post down brandon i got my 2 cents in.

I was not at the event, but my observation is this thread started out really positive. Why don't people try to focus on the positive parts of the event. Every event has its bad side, but for the most part, I bet the majority of people really enjoyed this one.

Theres no need to close this thread....Rick made the poor choice of venting in the wrong thread in the wrong fashion....I too missed the event because of finals but I dont see the point of this little squabble. The event is over and done with (o and we happened to win to....thanx 131 and 134!!!!!). I heard the food was great and cheap (one of those rare things at FIRST events huh. All in all I missed a great event. I wont miss it next year though, you can be sure of that!!!

Re: MY COMPLAINTS
 

Ricksta121:

It doesn't help your point to have the following in your sig.

"Our first match at BAE; Announcer: "And there goes 138, that was brutal......a brutal flip"

11 Brutal Flips and counting"

If you're going to be proud of your flips, then you're opening yourself and your team up to either being disqualified or not allowed to participate until you change your robot so that it doesn't flip others so easily. As I'm sure you remember, Wildstang had those 2 wedges on their robot, but while competing they tried to do everything possible not to flip other robots when they drove up their ramps (even though they could lift the ramps, or just move forward a little and flip their opponent). They also never bragged about having x numbers of "Brutal Flips." It doesn't matter to observers (and referees, being people who watch mathes, count as observers) that you tried to help them back up in this instance, because people have seen your robot's actions and your (Ricksta121) unprofessional bragging about flipping other robots. If you hadn't been so publicly proud of your flips, and so vociferously complained about refereeing as pertains to your robot you wouldn't have had so many problems. Really quickly let me add that if my robot had been flipped by a team known for flipping robots I would have complained to the referees, and then visited your pit to have a quick chat. I wouldn't have been as animated as the person you described in your post, though. I would have remained professional. You've made a name for yourself and your 2003 robot, you only have yourself to blame. Learn from this and don't repeat these mistakes next year.

Well, Sean, I did ask for all comments. While I would love it if everyone had nothing but good to say about Rally, that isn't the case. There were obvious problems with it, I was hoping people would point them out.

About the refs- They were fill in's and there were only 4 at that. We had several others who for various reasons had to bow out at the last moment, leaving us scrambling for refs. So, most of them were pulled off of 95 and given a quick crash course in reffing and sent out on the field (part of the reason we never worked well- everyone was filling in for others). Some had never been to a FIRST event. It was tough for everyone, the refs espically.

Now, in defense of the refs:

121, a lot of bots ended up flipped when against you. I think we can all agree on that. Something about your robot lends it's self to tipping bots, and some were getting damaged because of it. People were complaining about it and the ref's didn't want to have damaged bots or to have to disable someone (121), because that was to difficult a call to make on the spot. So they had 121 remove the wedge to prevent any damage to other robots and the possibility of making an on the spot DQ.

I'm sorry you guys had a bad experience, The refs did their best to make a fair call and stick to the rules as best as possible. I think given the situation, they did fine. Its not as if they were out to get you guys, they just wanted to avoid DQing you or seeing a bot knocked out of finals because of a flip.

As for someone from another team yelling at you, I'm really sorry about that. We really hate to see our event turned into a controversy, and teams arguing amongst each other just makes it even worse. I'm sorry this stuff happened, I really am. We really feel bad that you were coming all the way up here just for an off season event and you had a sour time.

I do hope you come back next year.

-Andy A.

PS, blame the cables on FIRST, they sent us plenty of 25 pin male to males, but no 15 pin male to males arggg! Not to mention never bothered to give us the password to the scoring database.

edit: silly spelling and such fixed

First all Rick's comments might be a little harsh, but are not discouraging by any means.

1. The control field was really not 95's fault. FIRST send them the field on Friday, so they had very few time to play with it, and give it a couple of test runs. They found out that the scoring systems had a password, and I think that they improvised very nicely, considering the time restraints.

2. The judges are volunteers, they are not paid, and they are taking their own Saturday off to judge. They made a bunch of lousy calls (In and against our favor). However you have to realize that most of them were Hockey Refs, and they try to judge as best as they could.

3. The reason we are most likely not coming back up to Rally, is not because we hate it, but because it is a 3+ hour drive away. Our adult volunteers get tried when they have to drive so long especially so early in the morning. Eventually it gets to you.
My team has had only positive things to say about the event.

4. What I did not like though was that an adult in the denim shirt bashing us in the middle of finals. He made a lot of crude and vulgar remarks, mouthing words to us, and I think gave us the middle finger. At first I thought he was from 501, but I really don't know what team he went on. What I especially didn't like was people talking behind our backs in private rooms telling us about our past (97 era) and saying other negative things. Be in mind though that 95 had nothing to do with it, and wasn't their fault that some people decided to be un-gracious. So you can't really blame the competition. I think Ricks comments was with all the crud we had to put up with at the end. Rally was a very good competition, and I would recommend it to everyone.

Honestly if you don't know what "Graciously Professional" means then you shouldn't be in FIRST... I'm sorry but FIRST isn't about winning... You should look into what it does mean...

I was at the event but unfortenlty missed the event in question. However I talked to a number of people at the event after the fact and most people were very much upset at the device 121 had on the front of their robot. They only saw it as a flipping mechanism and we all know 121 has experience in flipping other robots from years past. I believe the anger was well focused. And everyone knows who yelled at the drive team. If you don't your not a true FIRST-a-holic. Cya all.

Come on rick!
 

Hey rick, I know there were problems with taking off the wedge, which is understood, but really, how can you criticize the refs? there are VOLUNTEERING!! o, to other teams, i know rick brags way too much about all our team's flips, but we built our robot to win, not be "friendly". if everyone built "friendly" robots this competition would be more boring than english class. sometimes the drivers of our team (me, rick sometimes) are a little agressive. In BAE i was warned about going after other robots, so in future matches, i waited for the other teams to come to us. if they want to get on the ramp, they should avoid the wedge (which, i might add, is not powered in any way, and can't actually lift up) and drive around us, if they can't and don't want to get damaged, stay away from us and the ramp when were on it. like rick said, it's designed to elimate a surface for teams to push, and so far it's a simple solution to allow us to control the wedge. much more simple, and less likely to break than complicated suction devices, and arms. if other teams' have effective ramp control methods, than congrats, as for us, the ramp is our simple solution to a problem. i think thats what engineering is all about; finding the most simple/ effective solution to a complex problem

Re: Come on rick!
 

Your team has consistently shown the worst attitude about FIRST I have ever seen.

Congratulations.

Re: Come on rick!
 

Walking the fine line...
 

Hi all,

Being in the middle of the whole ordeal, I have made a few observations. I think that first of all, all sides need to realize that this was a complete no-win situation for the refs. The tipping rule when it comes to wedge robots walks such a fine line, that its impossible to come out of it with everyone being happy at the same time. On one hand, wedges can be viewed as mechanisms that are made to maliciously tip other robots. We saw it happen at various competitions. The second viewpoint would be that viewpoint of the wedge teams (like my own team) who built the wedge as a wall removal device. At the beginning of the year, my team was so nervous about running into the so-called "Beatty play" where the robot takes complete control over the center of the field, restricting movement, and winning the match every time, that we decided it was more important to build a wedge to remove robots who anchored themselves to the top surface of the ramp. Now, the refs have to make a call on this fine line at each and every competition. Different competitions will call it different ways. With that in mind, I want to remind everyone that the referee's job is truely the most difficult job of anyone. They have to make the toughest decisions, and they have to take the brunt of the contraversy that may surround them. In the head ref's mind, he wanted to do what he felt was the best situation for all parties. He felt that it was important to draw the line on tipping at the competition, while at the same time not DQ'ing 121 for something they had been doing all year. In actuality, the decision hardly made anyone happy, but if you really look at it, it was probably the most middle of the road decision you could possibly make, even if it wasn't consistant with the rules FIRST had followed most of the year. What it does come down to, is the biggest rule of them all...the referees decision is final...afterall, it is the toughest position to hold out there. So, try not to blast the refs too much...we have it easy compared to them. As for the wedges, its going to be important for all offseason competition organizers to clarify and draw the line for the robots of that type before any competition starts.

Finally, as for people getting heated as a result of the actions on the field, I think that it is important for everyone to remember that this is just a game afterall...try your best to remember the big picture of everything when things like this come up. In the longrun, its better for everyone that way.

Peace,
Andy Grady

KevK- You are absolutly right... It was a nice dessign but you were more than a little agressive... In most of your matches you ended up chasing your opponent and tried to get the wedge under them... I have video proof too... And when you did get the wedge under them you released their grip but kept driving and pushing them across the field until they flipped...

Ok Ricksta congratulations on once again killing a thread.

First off a read your own sig. You guys take pride in maliciously attacking robots. You have for a while everysince Rumble in the Rock.

Lets take a walk down memory lane shall we....

Rumble at the Rock 1999?
Final 88vs121
You couldn't beat us, you couldn't handle us. So what do you do you come running up at us and tip us over. No regards for safety we were extended fourteen feet in the air. Congratulations on that win really you deserved it.

Battlecry at WPI 3
Finals 237and 173vs. 121 and 190?
Lets see your winning by an obscene amount oh and lets go and tip over RAGE. Fine you do that whatever oh lets DRAG THEM INTO THE SCORING zone too uncalled for.

Season 2003
All year we have been on your hit list. Everytime we are nearing the ramp you come charging up wedge ready to go. Unfortunately for you we haven't tipped yet. All I have to say is bring cuse when you do we got a little surprise coming for you in our arm being buried through your lexan.

121 its simple really your playing battlebots in a game where its unappropriate. If your action continues than teams will react and the game will deteoriate. You are already hated (yes I mean hated) among many teams in FIRST due to your views, conducts, and playing style in FIRST. You value bringing home trophies as your priority where it should be more about the experience. What appauls me further is how you continue to come on Delphi and bash people for telling your team they aren't playing by the rules. You guys break the rules live with them and if you continue you will be lucky to find a place to play in the offseason.

To quote you Ricksta
BUT WHAT REALLY GOT ME ANGRY was some guy from 88. He was an adult who had the nerve to come to me and my drive team and start yelling at us. Now you can say this post isnt gracious, but what that guy did was uncalled for. He said we were purposefully damaging other teams when all we were doing was playing the game.

So even without a wedge we won the whole thing. So just to spite some of you jealous poeple we're adding another wegde on our "piece of blank" (according to what that guy said. Think before you talk next time guy)

you made this post very personal now between your team and my team. That jerk that came over and told your team to take off the wedge was Mr. Morrison or known to the rest of FIRST as Moe. He is one of the leaders of FIRST and has more wisdom and knowledge of FIRST than you can dream or hope for. Now I wasn't at Rally in the Valley due to a personal last minute oblegation but I can tell you one thing Rick I was suppose to be the head ref. And lemme tell you one thing if I say you, GaelForce, or any other team flip over one robot once you get a warning. You do it again that part of your robot is going off I don't care what strategical excuse you come up with to merit its use. I've been in FIRST long enough to know what is malicious and what is acceptable. I've seen the footage of Rally and that is maliciously the stuff done in the past was malicious. Ricksta how about before you come on the boards think how much flak you are going to take before you start talking cuse its seems to be a constant theme. You come on you get yelled at by all of FIRST and then the thread closes. I'm so angry right now I'm going to stop typing and I apologize for going off but the things said but 121 openly warrant a post like this. Brandon if you want to close this thread go ahead

HEY!
 

Todd,(and any other poster) you need to watch what you say on these forums. If you want to vent DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. This is not Jerry Springer where you can say what you want. We are suppose representing a great organization (FIRST)...and your teams. Please just calm down before you post. Take if from someone who has made that mistake before. Good Luck to all teams attending off season comps. Let the competition do the talking.

Volunteer refs....
 

So, we all agree...leave the refs alone...there is NO place to hide once the day starts. Let us turn this thread back to something positive..( I think all sides have been heard).

Any of the teams putting on events would love to have a LIST of refs to call upon. Let us start the list of qualifications....

1. You must have first hand knowledge of the game that year (if you were on a team back in '97 and you want to jump back in, reffing without knowing the game is not a help to anyone

2. Be able to say and believe that yesterday is gone...I do not care if a team ran over your grandmother's toe with its robot last year. A ref or umpire or other game official must never enter a game with the intent of getting even with a team or teaching them the "real rules' of FIRST.

3. Love FIRST and the things that it stands for.

I would be willing to keep a list of volunteer refs in the New England area and share the list with all interested teams.

If you know of other qualifications, post them. If you are interested in joining the Ref team, email me at dkelso@attbi.com.
I had fun last weekend, and I would have had fun if we did not win. MY greatest concern is that there are more events and we need not drag this on.

Thanks...

I still say the refs did a good job... They tried their best...

Re: MY COMPLAINTS
 

Rick, unfortuneately yes, a holy war was started, and now only Brandon himself (and all other mods) can lock this post and fix it. But, let it be known that in response to the quote above, you were only asked to remove the wedge at the very end of the finals, meaning you only had to play what, 2 matches without your wedge? Not too impressive in the least.
What would have impressed me Rick would have been if you had gone the whole competition without the wedge. NO, wait, why stop there? The whole year in fact.
The first thing i noticed was your "unique" design. How many other robots do you see who are using flipping to their advantage in this game. It has to stop somewhere. Unfortuneatly i can't tell you when or where, and nor would I. It's your design and all.
And although i must say you had a beautiful robot this year, had you used it to only weave throughout the boxes, your respect level would be much higher.

I think everyone just needs to take a step back and think about what has been said. I know people have been complaining that certain tactics were not Graciously Professional, but do you really think this discussion is, either? Think about what you say before you say it, and don't turn this into yet another flame war. This has become an argument. Not a discussion, but an argument. All this venting does no good for anyone.

I'd hate to see this thread closed. How about we just get it back on topic?

What did you like about Rally? What did you hate? What would you have kept? Done away with? Could the staging crew have organized things better? How so?

We try very hard to put on as slick an event as possible. So, please, help me out and give some constructive feedback. It doesn't have to be positive, just honest and ment to make the event better next year. If you have a serious suggestion we'll very likely act on it. We want to make your time in Lebanon as fun as possible. This is your chance to help out.

I'm going to ignore any thing regarding 121's wedge, for the time being, thats for another day when people have calmed down.

-Andy A.

Edit: yet more silly spelling and the like

Well I don't know about everyone else but I had a blast... It was a great competition... The only thing that i recomend doing is letting the other teams know about it so we can have more than 12 teams... I can't stop thinking how many teams missed out on a great competition... Keep the food the same... Don't change anything about the food especially the price... Very nice announcing too... Oh actually there is one thing that should be changed... Probably if anything the steepness of the ramp going back to the pit... Try to make it a little less steep because it took some teams forever to go down the ramp including us... And another thing that got boring was the music... I think I heard the same song like 7 times every hour... haha... Other than those minor problems I think it was a great competition... See everyone at the next one!!!

OK this is definatlly not what I wanted. I really only wanted postive comments of Rally. I knew Rick was going to post something, and its not bad, but maybe just a little to subjective, but defintally not out of line.

I can't stop Rick, I have stopped caring a long time ago. But you can stop from replying to him, and all of this stuff. I asked Brandon to delete from Rick's post down.

Maybe next year you could try to make sure its not at the same time as another competition in the area(PARC this year). It sounds like a fun competition and I’d love to come check it out, but it wasn’t possible this year because PARC was at the same time.

To Kyle why should I stand back and read Rick and your team bash 1) the refs at rally for making a call that should have been made at BAE a long time ago 2) or what really burns me my team mentor for telling you guys to knock it off with your underhand tactics. You guys think you are the kings of the northeast with your devious tactics. You pushed RAGE will they were down last year and you continuely involve yourself in these tactics everytime you take to the field. So for a group of refs to come out and make a call against all of a sudden is a shock and surprise to you. You guys won Rally in the Valley and you are still screaming murder. Personally for everyone who comes on these boards and tells me that I should remain calm and watch my words on this forum first off if you don't live in the Northeast and compete in the northeast you don't know the story the teams or anything to a good enough point where you should be making a judgement. And when somebody attacks a team mentor on a site that is suppose to go unnoticed. That is horrific and for you to come on Kyle and say that the comments by Ricksta weren't bad read them again and maybe you will see why I come on these boards mysteriously out of nowhere to defend not only my team, the teams of the northeast, but FIRST. Team 121's tactics are underhanded and should not go without notice. So by me posting I hope that maybe everyone will get the whole story and not a sugar coated story that usually is given at the end of this threads. If these acts continue in FIRST without reprimand I will indeed withdraw from my mentor position on 88 and withdraw from FIRST. The actions that are being protected in this forum are dispicable and need to be called out. Brandon delete this forum what has needed to be said has been said.

Personally for everyone who comes on these boards and tells me that I should remain calm and watch my words on this forum first off if you don't live in the Northeast and compete in the northeast you don't know the story the teams or anything to a good enough point where you should be making a judgement.


I don't live in the Northeast.....hmm i thought NH was up there somewhere........CALM DOWN! its just a game!!!!

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooook does anyone have something on topic to discuss???

Ok first Kyle the word you are searching for is antagonist not procrastinator and forms I believe you mean forums.

Ok with those changes made I can proceed. As to me inflaming these boards read my posts what I say in them is the truth. For you to come on these boards and complain that a strategical piece of your robot was taken off is obscene. You deliberately attack robots you know and everyone else knows it accept it and deal with it. However, once again Kyle you refuse to acknowledge the bashing of my team mentor. Is that part of the game to you? Is that gracious professionalism. People are saying that this is just a game team 121's acts go far beyond the playing field. It infects the very thread of morale value FIRST has created and I can't stand that being broken. With that said I'm gone from FIRST I've had it with these forums and people like this being protected by forums.

So to everyone on Delphi this is my last post FIRST was fun but now I'm done.

From being there and talking to other people most people didn't think you had to take the wedge off. All they were complaining to the refs about is that they wanted them to watch for intentional flipping and pinning. The refs should have never made that call right before the very last match. If they did feel it was really important then they should have called it in the beginning of the day not when they did.
I was really surprised to see you flip back over Chaos but it was the right thing to do, most teams would have left them flipped over. Even though it did lead to you losing the match.

How 'bout them Cleveland Indians?

How 'bout them Cleveland Indians? [/quote]

Losing 8 to 3.....but the sox are winning:D

Well well then........ After reading what people had to say. .....and all the emotions that were shared ,i wonder if i should go to a comp this summer at all.

so much hate and deceit in the air. Never i imagined First students ,alumni ,volenters, and even parents staining and tainting this great program.

everyone needs to ask themselves truly. Why? Why am i involed in this. ?

I know why i have dedicated my free time for almost 10 years for..

please ask yourself the same question and think about it. Think about what you have read in this thread, and then answer.

I know most of you are better people then all these folk that posted ahead of me ..

remember respect. I do!

Thanks guys ..

D@VE

can always count on rollin :D go sox

yeah sox won!
 

sox beat texas 4-5!!! yea!! and they might gain a game on the yankees!! go D@VE, shut-up rick, stop talking kyle, and so will i

PS: didnt get to go this year, had an eagle ceremony for a friend to attend, i heard it was great!

hope to see everyone at other comps that might be less hostile;)

As for refs for next year, if you have locals volunteer room and board, I bet you can get FIRST-A-Holics to get themselves there.
I know I would show up. :)

I've seen only the on-site effort that goes into running a event, and whoever coordinated it deserves some thanks.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
FIRST-A-Holic, I don't need no anonymous

that was interesting reading.... I was going to post something that magically disappeared when I logged in... after reading all this, im glad I didnt post it...

Everyone: grow up... if you are going to quit FIRST because of this, fine, maybe you are in FIRST for the wrong reasons. This whole silly thing got blown way out of proportion. Its in the past... get over it.

Ricksta: notice how noone else but you is getting bent, and historically, you are *always* the one to get outta whack about stupid stuff when noone else does?

Cory

Re: MY COMPLAINTS
 

I wasn't waiting for it, but thanks for ruining the thread and my next 20 minutes.

[edit]

Actually, I don't feel like fixing this one.

If anyone is upset with one of their team-members posts, take it up with them. I'm done with this thread.

[/edit]