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PMGRACER 27-05-2003 21:06

Anybody else burned out?
 
After 4 years of intense robot building, I am finally burned out. Don't even want to think about another robot for quite some time. We spent a lot of hours building the Competition model then a whole bunch more hours on the Practice model this year. I think I had a Mechanical and Technical "surge" this year. I guess a lot of it has to do with the small number of talented folks we have that can design and build the robot each year. We only have 4 or 5 Adults who are capable machinists/fabricators, 2 skilled welders, 2 skilled Electronics folks, and no Adult programers. The students really stepped up to the plate this year, but the Adults that we do have sacrificed alot of personally to make the robot happen.

You don't think about the things you are supposed to be doing in Jan & Feb because you are so wrapped up in this intoxicating project. But when the 'Bot is shipped and the season is finished in the blink of an eye, all the projects and chores you put off, come screaming forward demanding immeadiate attention. Then comes the guilt for putting stuff off or frustration because you have a race car that needs a lot of attention, more than any robot could ever dream of, and its the middle of the drag racing season.

FIRST is a worthwhile program to be involved in as an Adult mentor. But for me, it does bring its share of personal conflict. I really enjoy working with the Students, and have really grown quite fond of the other Adult members. I will always probably struggle with finding a balance between Racecars and Robots.
Do any of you other Mentors struggle with finding this balance? Maybe for us (Team 27), recruiting a few more technically skilled Adults and Students may ease the load.

Ok, just got back from a ride with my Dad in his 65' GTO Convertable! That car is so sweet! I just finished making brackets for his Tach and his ignition box. Nothing like banging through the gears, foot mashed to the floor, 389 Poncho screaming.... Man I love fast cars! I wish robots made the same roar my Race motor dos in my Camaro.

Anyway, man this post is geting long, sorry, I love FRIST. I love Drag Racing. How I'll find a way to mangae both, I have no idea. Maybe I just need to spend some quality time in the garage and race track and forget about robots for a little while. Cuz' you know when Jan 4/5 comes round' I'll be itchin to go gang busters again. I'll never learn:rolleyes: :cool:

sanddrag 27-05-2003 21:38

Yesterday I started flying my RC airplane again - something I hadn't done since I knew what FIRST was. I've still got to fix all my RC cars and clean my room. Also, I have to get back to work in Inventor on that dang robot transmission for next year. It will be hella cool though.

Ryan Albright 27-05-2003 21:48

Well this was my third year, and i am not burned out at all i eat sleep drink robot. My room is a mess and i get to use the excuse robotics. All i read ont eh interent is aobut robotics. its AwesomeI dont think it would be something i get sick of cuase i love doing it

team222badbrad 27-05-2003 22:01

Burnt out from Robotics?? No way not for me atleast...

IF I am burnt out from anything it would be from attending school for 12 years:), luckily I have one more year to go!!!

In my opinion Robotics comes first then school. Even my teachers probably think this of me...

I believe that I have gotten more out of robotics than any other class can offer...

Kel D 27-05-2003 22:15

I agree with brad. i can't get enough of robotics. so many good times have been spent with my team building, at competitions, or doing whatever crazy things we come up with. FIRST has been the best thing that has happened to me so far. i have met so many new people and i have learned so much. i personally cannot wait for next year!!

Matt Attallah 27-05-2003 22:25

Quote:

Originally posted by team222badbrad
I believe that I have gotten more out of robotics than any other class can offer...
I don't think I can describe it any better.

After 4 (four) years in robotics, let me say what a rush. I have been through the good times, the bad, and the weird. It's not so much FIRST, but the people that can carry out it's meaning. My mentors - Bob, Dave, Gary (to name a few)- have brought me so much joy in my life. They allowed me to go on to college. They have showed me what it feel like to truly be on a team. I have made great friendships on my team - not to mention the others among other teams. My mentors have been through hell and back. My first few years we had everything under control. Kids would fund raise, engineers would build robot, and than kids that had the $$ would go to regionals. About my 3rd year into it - the teacher left, the program was almost demolished, and we also lost our huge room. My mentors stuck through it - thick and thin - to make sure kids had something to do. In my 'hood, people here are all blue collar. They think they have to dislike their jobs and work long hours just to make ends meat. These mentors have given them, as well as me, a future.

I am no where near burnt out. I still have at least 5+ years in me. I realize that I have never been on the mentor side, but it feels so good when you over come that problem that some people think you can't. It feels good when you have people looking up to you and when you help others. I don't think that I can ever get over that feeling that I have had over the past 4 years. I'll never forget - in 2001 - we went to VCU. We had a new code that we wanted to upload, but our head programmer was going to meet us a day late in VCU. Well, we uploaded it, and nothing happened. Our arm moved - but that was it. Well, I looked over the code, did a few cut and pasts - and viola. I had a program that allowed us to compete. I will want more kids to experience that feeling - that rush - of showing leadership even from a student side.

What I am basically saying is that I think it all depends on your reactions with FIRST. Mine have been as smooth as velvet - even at times it seemed like the road was yanked from underneath us. I have and always will be involved with FIRST. Even if it is just through these forums - or actually starting a team my self - I will hold up the Honor of being a FIRST precipitant. It's just too important for me to just ignore it after the best 4 (four) years of my life

Thank you FIRST, my mentors, the volunteers, and students. I shall never forget any of you. You are what make FIRST this awesome organism that will continue to interest kids in science and technology! THANK YOU!!

sanddrag 27-05-2003 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by team222badbrad
In my opinion Robotics comes first then school. Even my teachers probably think this of me...

I believe that I have gotten more out of robotics than any other class can offer...

You said it Brad. Some people will say you won't succeed with an attitude like that, but in my opinion that is HOW you succeed. School is not about learning in classes, it is about pursuing your interests and beliefs. Time management also plays a big role in that as well. You should not be afraid to spend a lot of time doing what really makes you happy and what you might see as a future for yourself.

srjjs 27-05-2003 23:10

Robotics promotes independent thought a great deal more than school does.

Without robotics, it'd be impossibly hard to remain sane.

Ashley Weed 27-05-2003 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryan_team710
Well this was my third year, and i am not burned out at all i eat sleep drink robot.
Wow.. that sounds exactly how I was one year ago. I had no life, I gave up soccer... gave up Girl Scouts, and almost gave up dancing school after 12 years being involved. All I did was Robotics... even when I went anywhere with friends.. it would only be robot friends.. and we would only discuss upcoming events/competition.

However, now with graduation rapidly approaching... I sit in a very weird spot. I love FIRST, I love Robots, and I love everything that the program has provided me. I know have to make decisions.... make fast money, and get through college. I really look forward to working with 222, and hopefully helping them greatly with competition intelligence..... but then on the other side... it has killed me to see my driver position go.... :(

PMGRACER 27-05-2003 23:24

Don't get me wrong here folks, FIRST is a great and inspirational program for both Students and Adults. I have shared many cool experiences and learned a lot about myself. I am very appreciative of the oppurtunity I was given 4 yrs ago to join this team. I wouldn't trade this experience for anything. However, as an active and creative adult, I have other interests besides robotics that need just as much attention.

I donot have a wife or children of my own yet. Family adds a whole different set of responsibilities that I don't have to deal with. But having a Race car and a house to take care of is a lot of responsibility. It is hard to devote so much of my life to just one thing.

As young adults, it may be easier for most of you to juggle school and FIRST. However, if you also play a sport besides doing robotics, you will also understand the tuff chioices you have to make. In fact one of the students this year had to miss going to Texas because she had a soccer tournement at the same time. Unfortunately, we only have 24 hrs in any given day, and can only accomplish so much in that time. Ideally we should make the most of the time we are given here on Earth, but sometimes you can only do so much before you have to stop and take a break for a little bit. Besides as some old Greeks used to say about 2500 yrs ago, "Know thyself; and Moderation in all things" (little maxium I learned in Philosophy many moons ago).

Robotics is cool. Racecars are cool. Houses are cool and a necessity. Sports are cool. I could go on and on. There is so much to do in life, don't be afraid to try as many things as you can. And try not to over do it in one area. You don't want to ruin the pleasure you derive from it... :cool:

sanddrag 27-05-2003 23:47

I am definitely not tired of robotics and I don't think I ever will be. I'm just kind of bored because there isn't anything happening right now. The CD boards are dead, my team doesn't meat anymore, we have no more events till Oct, no one e-mails me, no one calls me. FIRST really needs to have more year round activities; off to Tigerbolt I guess - but even that has become boring. If it wasn't so costly I would suggest the competition be twice a year; but it's not.

So, here I am with all the post comp boredom. At least I'm not alone.

Erin Rapacki 27-05-2003 23:54

Yea, I guess I've been deemed a FIRST-a-holic college student. And at the rate I'm going... I wouldn't be surprised if I were to burn out eventually (like others have before me). But it's an addiction, lately, every evening I'm posting on these forums, doing something Blitzy, or talking to people online... it just happens. I don't mind it at all, and it's an addiction because they are all friends and interesting people... but at times it gets a little tiring and repetative.

I have recognized the symptoms, there are just some days when I have to talk about Robotics at some meeting and the words don't seem to want to leave my lips, it gets too time consuming, takes away some free time and whatnot... but I have developed a few preventative measures because I never want to be "too sick of FIRST." I enjoy it too much.

What do I do?

- Remove myself from all civilization. Computers, go somewhere with no cell phone service... just GET AWAY for a few days and rejuvinate myself (usually done by backpacking and winter camping)
- During build I designate a time or day of the week to keep to myself (usually fridays) when I get housekeeping things done and blast some classical music
- I do other little things. Sometimes just ignoring AIM and sitting in a park helps keep my mind refreshed and new.

So what am I saying?

I guess variety is the best way to go, a little of both keeps you active with both. Never forget your other interests and activities. People on your team will recognize that your burned out and help you out as best as they can. But keep in mind... if you are the person who's soley responsible for a team's success, and you're worried that if you step down, that they won't have such a good machine... that you might be missing the point;

It's healthy for a team to have it's good and bad years, as long as the vast majority of people are improving themselves along the way. For a strong leader to give up a little power because they feel burned out is fine. Accept help from others, but remain involved... no team would want to loose a strong leader completely. Because although you are not in charge, you'd still be there to offer guidance, AND you'd have your own life back... and life would be roses :D


ByE

erin

Matt Leese 28-05-2003 00:37

I suppose I can be the first one to answer with an affirmative. I've been burning out every spring since around 2001. This just was my sixth year in FIRST on four different teams. I did three years as a high school student and three years as a mentor.

Hands down, being a mentor is much more stressful than being a high school student. Why? The mentors tend to carry much more responsibility than the high school students (I'm sure I'm going to get several dozen replies from high school students saying they carried a lot of responsibility and I'm sure they do; this is from my meandering experience only). This added responsibility has driven me to burn out ever since I started as a mentor.

Now, it's important to notice that while I do get burned out, I'm always involved next season (and being involved usually means I'm helping to direct RIT's involvement in FIRST). How do i do this? I generally spend the spring completely ignoring FIRST. Most of the summer is spent in a similiar fashion. This gives me enough time to recover from the season in order to be in a position to participate next year. This obviously works for me as I'm still involved with FIRST and plan to be next year (for the past three seasons I think I've claimed that that would be the last season for me but it hasn't happened; I finally gave up on claiming that this past year).

So there are ways of working through burn out. The best is to simply not worry about it for a good part of the year. FIRST consumes enough of my life for part of the year that I really need a break from it for a significant part of the year.

Matt

JVN 28-05-2003 01:31

Quote:

Originally posted by weedie
it has killed me to see my driver position go.... :(
Coaching is more fun anyways! :D

Aaron Lussier 28-05-2003 06:27

Not quite yet, But I'm pretty sure I'm getting close, I'll have to wait till college to see what happens

Andy Baker 28-05-2003 09:29

Paul,

I see what you mean about burnout, but it has not hit me yet. I see many people go through this.

From my experience as an adult mentor, I think that FIRST is more manageable to do if you are "settled down". In my case, my life was pretty chaotic until I got married and started having kids. This marriage forced me to give up the things that made my life chaotic (playing football, being in a band, golfing, travelling around the midwest every weekend to see friends).

While FIRST is a difficult job to do, it is very predictable. I can tell my wife and my boss that I will be elbow deep in a robot in February and I will have some weekends away in March and April. They both know that this is coming and they support me in this effort.

If I were single and did FIRST, I would probably not have the wisdom to give up the other things that would make my life more chaotic. I really respect all of the college students who are FIRST mentors, for I probably would not have the discipline to stick with it if I were in their shoes.

Just my opinion...

Andy B.

pauluffel 28-05-2003 09:54

After two years, I"m not burned out, but that"s due to a mix of A)Not having time for emotions like motivation and B) A resposibility to the others on my team. After one year on a rookie team, I started another rookie team and me teamates and I put out quite a bit of effort to make something that would move (it actually only moved about 30feet in the entire regional, but it launched crates in practice). We had one student with a year experience, one engineer who used to program graphics cards, a devoted frosh and soph, and about 10 other people who showed up once a week. After about a week, the core group learned tat school is secondary, but this took a bit of a toll on our grades. The others knew to stop when one of their grades dropped a letter grade (10 %age points) but I couldn"t because other people needed me, so each of my classes dropped at least this much.
Do I have the initiative to go play with the EduRobotics kit up in my rom? Not in the least.
If a future-frosh called and wanted to play with it? I would drive it over to their house and teach them everything I knew so they"d be more prepared for next year(note:To put this in perspective, I"m too young to legally drive).

So the fire in me may have been blown out, but the fuel in there is still ready, waiting for the fire of another robot nerd.

Matt Attallah 28-05-2003 10:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Baker
...golfing...
WOW! You are the first husband that I know that gave up golfing!! Wow! Good stuff (that sport isn't a sport - try hockey! :D )

Amanda Morrison 28-05-2003 10:56

I've felt burnout. I've been there and I never want to go back.

Andy's very correct - get the rest of your life in order, and FIRST will follow suit. I'm taking a year off from being completely dedicated to a team to do just that- but we all know that my heart belongs to team 1020, and I'm sure I'll be saying all this 'taking a year off' stuff, and then get sucked right back into it for next year.

Jeff Waegelin 28-05-2003 11:39

Well, this is something that I never thought I'd see myself saying, but I really do feel burned out by FIRST. Not so much the program, and the robot building, but the organizational and team aspects. I love building robots, and I'd keep doing it forever if I could, but the experience I had with my team this year really put a damper on my enthusiasm. After all the drama of organizational meetings and power struggles with a few underclassmen, I feel totally drained. One of my best friends found herself fighting half the team all season, and it just really drains the fun out of things. I hope to be able to return amicably some day, but for now, I'm just too tired of it all to keep going.

Steve Yasick 28-05-2003 13:59

The burn-out thing hit me hard two years ago. I tried to take a season off. I couldn't do it!

I learned how to say no sometimes or delegate the work to someone else. I also learned that it is very important to have non-FIRST friends who understand what you put into it and that FIRST is good. When my wife said "I know this is what you do, you make a difference" I was hooked and some of the family pressure was off so I could help the team.

I'll be tired of this for a few weeks, then August will come around 30 kids will want to know when the 1st FIRST meeting is, the next thing I'll know it will be May again.

Steve Yasick
Team 85

PMGRACER 28-05-2003 19:27

Thanks for sharing everybody. (Group hug!):p
I guess "burn out" is a little more common than I first thought. So many people put in so much time and emotion into this. It is not hard to cross the line and over do it. It is taking a long time to recover this year. I'm sure I'll be back next year. After all, we have all these cool ideas buried somewhere in our heads, and when the time is right they just come exploding out without abandon.

I don't know how you married folks do this program, unless your whole family participates. FIRST is such a time vortex in Jan/Feb. You all must have some wonderful spouses who recognize what you are doing, and know this is a great thing for soo many people. Being single for me, makes this easier to handle. I don't have to worry about parental responsibility or that I'm not spending enough time with the wife.

I have always been a busy person and Racecars have occupied most of my adult life.(Prior to actually having a Racecar, I spent mostt of my time as a kid building model cars and googleing over the pages of Hot Rod Magizine) I love Drag Racing, and Hot Rods to my very core. I actually got involved in FIRST because in many ways it is similar to having a Race team. During the off season from FIRST, I spend many moons working on my Camaro and Tow rig setup. The biggest conflict I have, is FIRST happens when I need to get the race stuff done so I can be ready to race come Appril 1. Unfortunately, most of the fabwork on a car takes longer than building a robot. Oh, the choices we have to make.

I am enjoyiong the break away from the whole FIRST thing. I do miss getting together with the team, but we were spending too much "quality time" together. Pretty bad when you know other peoples wardrobes as well as your own!:p Anyway, I am a FIRST'er and a Draq Racer. These 2 things are difficult to juggle if you want to do both successfully. But who ever said anything in life worth doing, is easy? Enjoy our break this summer, whupp it up. Let your hair run free. Let those ideas ferment somewhere back in a dark cave in your head, and when Mid Fall approches, just relent, because you know you can't stop...Those ideas will just take over yuor life...This is just too good an experience to let it slip by..:cool:

Al Skierkiewicz 29-05-2003 10:35

Quote:

Originally posted by PMGRACER
I don't know how you married folks do this program, unless your whole family participates. FIRST is such a time vortex in Jan/Feb. You all must have some wonderful spouses who recognize what you are doing, and know this is a great thing for soo many people.
Yes, my spouse is very special. My son and daughter are both in college, so they get to attend some events. My wife, however, has found a way to be on the team in other areas, helping with promotions, fundraising and assisting the teachers in chaperon duties when traveling. Luckily, Dottie enjoys the competitions as much as anyone and loves seeing and talking to all the people on other teams. Many of you have probably met her already and she is known as the Wildstang Team "mom".
This past season was our 8th year with the team. What seems to work against burnout is setting limits on yourself. i.e. "I will only do electrical this year" or "I will go home by ten, tonight". It's hard to do, but every little bit helps. I also do Lego League in the fall, so I really don't have the up and down. I just stay on an even pace throughout the year. My hobby is ham radio, and I build a lot of kits for that. It is something you can do or drop and pickup in a few months without a problem. Getting on the air is sometimes a problem, but if you can fit in 15 minutes here and there you are still doing OK. There is nothing like talking to a marine down in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba or a retired TV tech in British Columbia and teach them about FIRST in the process.

MissInformation 29-05-2003 13:28

Our team is dealing with teacher burn out this year. The man who has been the head teacher for the past five years just can't do it anymore. Without him, the future of our team is a little up in the air, because we will never get another teacher to commit to as much time and work as he has done. However, I would rather see him go and possibly lose the team than have him continue as he is because he is becoming more and more negative towards the team and that isn't good for him or for the students. I've actually been friends with this teacher for close to 9 years now and I remember when he first got into the team. His enthusiasm was amazing. It was still pretty darn high three years ago when he got my other involved (I have to admit, due to the teacher understating how much time it would take up, I was not happy, and he, the teacher, knew this and wisely avoided me for a bit). Two years ago, I joined and I've seen the decline of his enthusiasm... but me joining and that decline have nothing in common, I swear! There are a lot of reasons he burned out, conflicts with his personal life, conflicts with work, and with what he really wanted to do. There are aspects of the team he would have loved to been more involved in, but he always got pulled away for admin. stuff. And he is "the teacher". The engineers and mentors can become friends with the students and while a teacher can too, there is always that line between student and teacher that cannot be crossed (for example, the students cannot openly talk to him about the senior prank they pulled like they can with the engineers).

Can burn out be avoided? I don't know. I would think everyone would feel a little burnt at some point. I think there are some things that can be done to prevent becoming totally burned out. Don't take on too much. It's so much better to do a good job at one or two things than it is to do a mediocre job on lots of tasks. And if you need a night off, take the night off! Get involved with what interests you, try to avoid taking on tasks just because you're afraid no one else will do it. One of the roles on our team is working on the financial aspects. We need someone to do this, it's very important. I will not volunteer for it because I find number crunching completely boring and I haven't even balanced my own check book in two years so why would I volunteer to for something in that area? I know the quickest way for me to burn out is to be bored.

MissInformation

<=============>
One day I'm going to have a cat named Everything so I can honestly say I know Everything.

Raven_Writer 29-05-2003 19:06

I've been in FIRST for only 1 year, and usually I get burned out of stuff w/in a month if I do it constantly (like in FIRST), but get burned out of robotics.....NEVER! I really enjoy what FIRST offers, shows us, and teaches us.

JVN 29-05-2003 19:54

Quote:

Originally posted by team222badbrad
In my opinion Robotics comes first then school. Even my teachers probably think this of me...

I believe that I have gotten more out of robotics than any other class can offer...

Hmmm... :(
I saw that quote spotlighted, and I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree.
You WILL learn a lot from FIRST, and you'll take a lot away from it, but the things you learn in school are infinitely important to your future. When you apply to college you can only stretch the "I build robots for fun!" story so far.

I once thought as you did, but believe me, looking back: I wish I had spent a little bit less time sketching designs, and a little bit more time paying attention in differential equations.

When it comes down to it, School will define your life, robotics is just a bonus. Some people make a life out of FIRST, but not many...


To start thinking, even for an instant that robotics is more important than school, is terrible. It will likely come back to bite you. It almost goes against the mission of FIRST.


John
(I said something similar when I was in HS, and only now do I realize how wrong I was!)

generalbrando 29-05-2003 22:46

Physical Burn Out
 
I think everyone who puts those countless hours into the build period has at least on frustrating burn out moment when the code won't work, the arm swings the wrong way, or the drive train just never works and you have to step away for a little while.

The worst burn out I've had happened this year. I say it's a physical burn out because I was sleeping only when necessary (4 to 6 hours a day), doing homework, building the robot, managing everything else as usual, while running around like crazy trying to make it to meetings with teachers, administrators, etc. Unfortunately my school (a boarding school, which means we're in a dorm) got hit with a really bad strain of the flu and we basically didn't have much of a meeting for a few nights in a row because only a few stayed in good health. I was one of the lucky many who got it really bad. Those evenings that I crawled from my bed, down to the lounge to work on the robot weren't necessarily horrible. I look back and laugh at them. But at the time, all I could think was to get away from the whole thing. Maybe the lesson I should learn and pass on to others is: take FIRST seriously, but don't let your health get involved!

Another burn out moment from this year comes to mind as well. In St. Louis I went on stage as the mentor. I think I've mentioned once before - I had a cold and a fever during the competition (those lights get hot when you have a fever!). I managed to stay alive, energetic, and happy those three days. But when I got home, it was spring break and I slept almost all day Sunday through Wednesday.

Even after all of this, I don't think I'll ever be truly burnt out. I still look at other teams' robots in quiet awe. If you're getting too burnt out, I suggest taking a look at what's causing it. Maybe you're too involved (it is actually possible) or maybe you have other things in life to deal with (FIRST is here to stay, so don't regret missing other important things!). Whatever it is, I would suggest working on it rather than getting to the point where you look back on your year(s) in FIRST with total disgust.

Al Skierkiewicz 30-05-2003 07:43

Quote:

Originally posted by JVN
Hmmm... :(
I saw that quote spotlighted, and I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree.
You WILL learn a lot from FIRST, and you'll take a lot away from it, but the things you learn in school are infinitely important to your future.

To start thinking, even for an instant that robotics is more important than school, is terrible. It will likely come back to bite you. It almost goes against the mission of FIRST.

I agree as well. First is not a career, and the delicate balance that holds it all together can be upset any time. Robotics, on the other hand, can be a career but it involves learning skills and "tools" that only come from a good education. If FIRST teaches you nothing else you should know that a slight advantage will win out when the playing field is level. A good education is one advantage, real life experience is another. Give yourself every advantage to get to do what you want. Someone once said "If you can find a job doing what you really like to do, you will never work a day in your life." Getting paid to do something you like is an extra added bonus.

Andy Grady 30-05-2003 09:36

Pit Falls...
 
FIRST has probably been the most influential program of my life. I have gained so much from doing it, and I have learned so much about engineering, people, and most of all...myself. As I head into my 10th year of FIRST, I really do realize how much of a double edged sword it can be. For the competitive types like myself, you can get consumed in it very easy. When trying to juggle FIRST, work, and school at the same time, you can get burnt out very easy. This burnout has actually caused quite a pitfall in my life. Due to FIRST and the burnout it caused, I was set back in college. I wasn't making the effort that was necessary to gain your degree in time. I would find myself during build season, excelling in classes that I was taking at the time, therefore I thought everything would be good. But by the time competition was over, I was so beat up physically and emotionally, that I just couldn't find that energy or desire to do my work. It wasn't until I nearly failed out of school which I smartened up and decided to take a step back from FIRST. Of course, though I tried to quit, I just couldn't do it. I was fortunate though to have befrended such a wonderful team as CHAOS 131 in my previous years. I joined the team in 2002 on a very limited "consultant type" basis and they took me in as one of their own. As a result of being able to work with this awsome team, and having plenty of time to do work (because they were an hour away from me, it made it easy), I was able to bring my grades up to honorable level and graduate. My one bit of advice to every student in FIRST is this...FIRST is a great experience, there is nothing out there like it. It is awsome to see so many "FIRST-a-holics" out there who live, breathe, eat, and sleep FIRST. I just ask every student out there to be careful. Make sure as you go into college, that you do not fall into a trap and take in more than you can handle. Being a mentor on a college team is alot of very hard work, and when you are trying to pull out an engineering degree, it can hurt your grades if you are not careful. I suggest exactly what I did to others. When you are feeling burnt out, or when you need to focus on life more, but you don't want to get out of FIRST, find a team that you have to travel a little bit of a distance to be with. If they are cool and they take you in like CHAOS did for me, it'll help you not only quench your thirst for robotic combat, but it will allow you to focus on the things that are truely important in your life. Also, don't forget to take some time for yourself to do things you have always enjoyed doing. Come summertime I am not all gung-ho about FIRST, so I use the summer to separate myself from it (barring the occasional Delphi post and offseason competition announcing job). I have found that this not only helps me enjoy life more, but it also makes me look forward to FIRST more towards build time than normal.

Cya at Battlecry!
Andy Grady

p.s.

Hey BAKER! Dude you were in a band?!?!?! Oh man, I can see it now, Andy all decked out in long hair, tatoo's all over his arms, playing the bass for some punk rock band playing the local clubs! Man, did you marry one of your groupies? How much for the demo cd??? :D

Chris Hibner 30-05-2003 11:07

Burnout is anual ritual
 
Burnout is an annual thing for me. Every year at some point, I always swear to myself that I'm never going to do this again. However, every year I come back. This year was especially difficult for me. Even so, I'm pretty sure I will be back. We'll see how I feel in the fall.

-Chris

JVN 30-05-2003 11:12

Re: Pit Falls...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Grady
Hey BAKER! Dude you were in a band?!?!?! Oh man, I can see it now, Andy all decked out in long hair, tatoo's all over his arms, playing the bass for some punk rock band playing the local clubs! Man, did you marry one of your groupies? How much for the demo cd??? :D
I'll reward anyone that posts a picture. No questions asked. :D

btw Grady,
Great post, you certainly summed up how I feel.

John

Kate Leach 30-05-2003 12:11

Depends on your role...
 
Something I noticed when I was reading through all these posts:
  • High school students rarely admitted they were burnt out
Even when they claimed that they were burnt out, it was on a small level -- not large enough to actually quit FIRST or take a break for at least a season. Many students claimed that they would never get burnt out when it came to FIRST. I used to be like that. Senior year of high school, information was being collected for yearbooks:

Where do you see yourself 5 years from now? Just out of college with a bachelors degree, still doing FIRST -- either for my old team or for a new one that I've started.

Where do you see yourself 10 years from now? Still doing FIRST, a full time engineering job, maybe married (to someone that does FIRST) with a pickup truck for easy transport of robots or materials to make robot related things.

I also had the dream of having a machine shop in the basement of my house when I grew up, that way FIRST could be done in my house.
  • College students had either burnt out totally, talk themselves out of quitting each year, take preventative burn out measures, or are still too new to doing FIRST & college to realize that they may get burnt out sooner than later.
I'm one of the college students (well, I've graduated now) who burned out. I was all gung-ho about FIRST for my first two years at WPI.

Freshman year I let my grades slip quite a bit -- mom wasn't too thrilled about that. I did a lot that year 'cause I wanted to show that I was good enough for the team. I just came out of running my old team, I was ready to run the new team -- I needed to prove myself. So, I did as much FIRST as was physically possible: I pulled all nighters, I skipped classes, I slept in the shop sometimes...

Sophomore year I was still totally addicted. I helped run the team and I was Head Scout. I was happy that I was helping run the team, and I was in charge of scouting -- what I loved when I was in high school. I was getting to do more administration stuff than engineering stuff. At the end of the year, I started bashing heads with someone and felt as if I wasn't getting any appreciation for all the work I had been doing. (I got recognition once a year for all the scouting efforts.) At the end of that year, I had decided that I likely wasn't going to continue doing FIRST.

The summer before Junior year, I danced almost every night of the week. It made me realize just how much I loved to dance previously. When I went back to WPI for Junior year, I still kept my feet wet with organizational things. Before kickoff came around, I announced that I was no longer going to be doing FIRST for T190. I had really started to focus more on school, and dancing was a necessity for me.

FIRST is great. I love seeing students grow because of something that I had been doing. My problem came when the stress outweighed what I got out of seeing students grow.
  • Engineers have burnt out, have ways of getting around burnout each year, or have it worked out so that burnout isn't even an issue.
I can't really relate this part to my personal experience, but I have seen burnout overcome by many different people. Andy Baker, Joe Johnson, Mike Martus, Bryan Lee, Ken Stafford, Sam Leone, Bill Beatty... I'm sure there are more, but I fear that if I list some people, they may have burnt out by now without my knowing it.



...and that's my story.

Kate

Kate Leach 30-05-2003 12:17

Quote:

Originally posted by JVN
Hmmm... :(
I saw that quote spotlighted, and I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree.
You WILL learn a lot from FIRST, and you'll take a lot away from it, but the things you learn in school are infinitely important to your future. When you apply to college you can only stretch the "I build robots for fun!" story so far.

I agree with John!

FIRST really is a great learning tool, but you can't do it well without doing well in school. I remember being in Trigonometry in high school wondering why the heck I would need to know [b]SOH CAH TOA[\B]. I had just been using it to drill through homework problems. FIRST is actually where I applied the knowledge that I gained from my school work.

If you've played an instrument in a school band, you've likely had one-on-one lessons. You get your practice in on your own time at your house (or somewhere) and at band practice with a group in a band setting.

School is where you learn your lessons. FIRST is where you get to practice and apply all that you learn. Don't forget that. (Besides, if you do well in your classes while doing FIRST, your GPA will be better and colleges would like you more. ;))

Kate

PMGRACER 30-05-2003 19:24

Wow! This is cool. My first thread, and so many folks posting! What a silly thing to be excited about,eh?:p

Doing better each day that I relax. Jumping back into the chaos again in a few months doesn't sound so bad. Actually talked to Dennis Hughes today about doing a tank tread similar to the TechnoKats design in 2001. This stuff just never quits! Even talked about how to improve the transmission a little. I guess you have so much invested in different ideas, and want to see them grow. Also, working on the Racecar takes my mind off FIRST for a while. Getting kinda curious as to what FIRST will cook up for next season. You know, if FIRST comes up with a really cool game, I'll have to stay around for at least another year and see how it all plays out...then I can quit after that...Always seems they create a game that ropes you in though...guess there isn't much chance of escaping...

Saw Andy Baker do kareoke in Houston. Lets just say he might just have a second career if Delphi doesn't mind him touring the country with Steppenwolf!!:D
:cool:

JVN 30-05-2003 20:23

Quote:

Originally posted by PMGRACER
Saw Andy Baker do kareoke in Houston. Lets just say he might just have a second career if Delphi doesn't mind him touring the country with Steppenwolf!!:D
:cool:

Don't any of you engineers carry cameras?!? ;) :D

Adam Y. 31-05-2003 11:30

Quote:

Anyway, man this post is geting long, sorry, I love FRIST. I love Drag Racing. How I'll find a way to mangae both, I have no idea. Maybe I just need to spend some quality time in the garage and race track and forget about robots for a little while. Cuz' you know when Jan 4/5 comes round' I'll be itchin to go gang busters again. I'll never learn
Yeah First keeps me from doing a lot of things. It stops me from building trebucets, potato cannons, more robots, and chain mail armor. On second thought..... Maybe this is a good thing for the people in my neighborhood. Knowing my luck I might blow up the neighborhood.

team222badbrad 31-05-2003 16:20

[quote]Originally posted by JVN
[b]Hmmm... :(
I saw that quote spotlighted, and I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree.
You WILL learn a lot from FIRST, and you'll take a lot away from it, but the things you learn in school are infinitely important to your future. When you apply to college you can only stretch the "I build robots for fun!" story so far.

Let me correct myself for all out there on CD. FIRST teaches you many different that cannot be taught in class easily. Many students would not have the chance to work with engineers if FIRST was not out there. FIRST also teaches a wide variety of things that would take several classes to learn everything... Such as taking a machining class and taking a drafting class. Instead of taking these classes I can just directly work with machinists and Drafters to learn how to make a part. However I have taken both types of classes to learn even more about these subjects. FIRST just has so many different subjects that would take many different classes to learn all the different things.
FIRST has narrowed down my career choices to: a machinist, some kind of electronics guy?, or drafting.

FIRST helps to show what kind of career choices there are, teaches you about them and helps you figure out what you like to do!

I still wish my school gave credits to the students involved with FIRST!!!

PMGRACER 31-05-2003 17:57

If you could plug me into the Matrix, I could download the whole "Andy Baker Tearin' up Born to be Wild" sequence...Guns. Lots of Guns...:p

Al Skierkiewicz 02-06-2003 07:10

Quote:

Originally posted by JVN
Don't any of you engineers carry cameras?!? ;) :D
John, unspoken engineer law #1, no evidence, besides a picture is nowhere as surrealistic as being there. (He did a fine job by the way!)

Amanda Morrison 02-06-2003 16:35

Something tells me we're going to have to have karaoke at IRI... :) I think Clark can arrange it!


I think Kate is right. All college mentors... think back to your younger days in FIRST in high school. I can remember being wide awake first thing in the morning catching a flight to Orlando, or on a bus up to Grand Rapids, or getting up early for fundraisers. This past year, after running on empty for awhile, I managed pneumonia for an entire week. Go figure.

JVN 02-06-2003 17:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Amanda Morrison
This past year, after running on empty for awhile, I managed pneumonia for an entire week. Go figure.
We had a college mentor with Mono still put in 6 or 7 all nighters. Now THAT is dedication. It's also pretty stupid.

Remember Kids:
Don't be like Chris!

David Kelso 02-06-2003 20:59

Burnout....a yearly event....
 
After going through 10 'build Seasons', I can say that I had decided to "quit" during 8 of those seasons. But each year there is something to keep you going. Getting the wife involved, having former members come help or even help for a year from Andy Grady. Yea, you can even keep coming back so that you have a chance to see old friends.

This year was really tough, we had a new sponsor with NO FIRST experience and a bare bones budget. I knew that I was losing 4 wonderful seniors this June, one of them not only being the "baby" of my family but also my right hand "person" for 3 years. (yes Kristen, you know that is true).
It would have been an "easy excuse'' for leaving. I even used the 'quit" word outloud around the house.

But, by the time the competitions came and I saw the FIRST SPIRIT build in my Sophomore and Freshmen members, I decided that I can hang in at least one more year. They deserve the chance to have a FIRST program too.

Maybe if I spend less time reading "delphi', I could get a head start on next year and not be as rushed then.....well, let me read just one more post first...........

PMGRACER 02-06-2003 22:31

Anyone else ever see "Mr. Holland's Opus"? Somehow FIRST mentors seem to follow Richard DRyfus' path. You know we set out to be famous musicians, get sidetracked teaching kids all about being in a high school marching band for money to support the family while we get our hot music career off the ground...

It is amazing how things work out sometimes. You get involved in this intially because building robots sounds cool or maybe you like to work with young impressionable minds...Little do you know that FIRST can overtake your life. Once your here, it seems that no matter what you do you just can't leave. No matter how many times you say "I Quit" either out loud or in your head, something turns you into a hypocrite and you return despite yourself. Maybe we all just like hittting ourselves in the head with a hammer repeatedly or we end up making some really good friends here and love celabrating the freedom to creatively express and share awsome ideas...:cool:

Nick Seidl 10-06-2003 20:51

Thank-you, may I please have another
 
No way am I burned out. After four years of FIRST, I go through withdrawl during the off-season. I go about my house and fix things that aren't really broken, visit CD, and plan for next year. I've already contacted my new team for next year, Purdue (my new school next year) sponsored team 461. To quote Schwarzenegger, "I'll be back."

Lora Knepper 18-06-2003 11:09

I guess I've gotten the kick in the pants to start posting around here again....

I see many of my friends chiming in on this... Kate, Andy G, Matt.... and I agree with all of you. Kate, I particulary think you hit the nail on the head.

My path was similar. I ate, drank, breathed and sleeped FIRST all through high school. I had a leadership position even as a freshman on my team, and tried to carry that burden of the school district and sponsors along with the pressures of being a student. Everyone in my high school knew I was going to stay involved upon going to college. I tried to get involved with what was going to be my college team (RIT - 73) before I even moved on campus. I couldn't see myself doing anything else with my life. FIRST inspired me to choose my major - Mechanical Engineering/Aerospace.

Then reality hit. I never made it to college. I picked up at the age of 19, and had to forge my path over 1,000 miles from everything I had ever known - FIRST, family, home. And in my time alone, I spent my time plotting on how to get back to FIRST. I attended the Richmond regional in 2002 - and realized how much I had given to FIRST, and how much I had forgotten to indulge in the things I really loved. The stress of the two years prior when I left my high school team and started "floating" - just trying to be useful.... it was suddenly too much. And for anyone that knows me, at that point, I recognized I was burned out. FIRST had become more of a chore than a passion. And I dissapeared.

It's been a while now since I've had anything to do with first. It's been far to long since I've talked to or seen most of my friends from the program. But I needed time to recover the passion that I had for FIRST. Now, I realize I would like to return, but in a much more limited fashion. I have a good job, friends, and a drive to return to school for something very different than where I started (diesel mechanics). For me, I can't let a blind passion erase all that.... but, in the same, I can't step away completely any longer :)

Burnout does seem to be the one thing that hits a student after they've left things from the high school side. I understand now why people have left with a whole new perspective that you can't get unless you've been there. But there will always be the draw to return in one way or another.....

~ lora

Christina 19-06-2003 15:03

Yes, I'm very familiar with this whole burnout thing. I have now finished 5 seasons with FIRST and I can honestly say that I am on the track to burning out. I started really last year but quite honestly, I think team politics is really what did me in. Throughout high school and even my first 2 years in college I was all about FIRST; it was everything to me. This year, I transferred schools, became president of the RIT FIRST Robotics Club, and had to deal with a lot more politics than I'm used to. Though I do have all intentions of being there next year, this last year was different. For me, robotics was a always on a fine line between stress and fun. Though the build season was stressful, it was always more fun and I didn't mind the stress so much. This year, it seemed that it got more stressful and less fun. Now, I had a great team this year. I don't attribute my burnout to my team at all. For the first time in the last 5 years, I found some things more important than robotics, and quite honestly, I think that's what saved me from completely burning out.

Specialagentjim 22-06-2003 22:46

Well, I just finished my 4th build season and I've still got two more in high school. I've said to myself many times this year "Why do I keep doing this" (Mostly related to the autodesk animation comp...don't even get me started on that...), but then I realize how much I've learned from this. Just about every day I realize that I understand a concept in life better because of FIRST. Just the other day, me and my dad were fixing our garage door opener. We've got the thing open and my dad didn't quite understand how the door adjusments work, he juss knew how to use them. I take one look in, and all I can think is "Limit switch". Two of em, with a little device that moves across a worm gear. When the door is moving, the worm gear turns, and moves the device until it hits a limit switch, signaling the door to turn off. Without FIRST, it would've taken me a lot more thinking to get how that worked, if I'd have gotten it at all.

Burned out wise. I've said it, but in reality, there's no way I could quit. I started back in 7th grade, and I'll be team leader and driver for my 11th and (hopefully) 12th grade years...and still loving the whole thing.


Btw, kate: So I'm not the only one that's had the vision of having their own machine shop in their basement/garage!?? YAY! I feel much better that I'm not the only one. :D (I still want one, even if you dont ;) )

Kate Leach 23-06-2003 11:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Specialagentjim
Btw, kate: So I'm not the only one that's had the vision of having their own machine shop in their basement/garage!?? YAY! I feel much better that I'm not the only one. :D (I still want one, even if you dont ;) )
I'm glad someone else has wanted a machine shop in their basement. Now I want to have a really nice dance floor in my basement. I'm still living with my parents, so it'll be a while before that happens... :p

Kate

Lora Knepper 24-06-2003 11:37

I have and still want a machine shop in my basement too ;) Though not so much for FIRST now, but for the mechanics stuff I've gotten into since FIRST..... machine shop and a 5 bay garage.... *dreams*

~ lora

JVN 29-06-2003 16:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Lora Knepper
I have and still want a machine shop in my basement too ;) Though not so much for FIRST now, but for the mechanics stuff I've gotten into since FIRST..... machine shop and a 5 bay garage.... *dreams*

~ lora

Heh... I do have a machine shop in my basement.

We have a milling machine, 2 lathers, and a bunch of other equipment.

It's my father's "hobby" and it certainly comes in handy when I feel the need to build something.

chellyzee93 05-07-2003 15:59

I'm ready to move on to the bigger things. Living FIRST everday, although being a mentor would be nice :P give me a year or two :)

Bharat Nain 18-01-2004 19:02

Re: Anybody else burned out?
 
I wish I could marry a robot.

But unforunately, you are not allowed have more than one wivfe. So I cant. Though Robots are just fascinating.

In a classroom, you have no team work, and no fun, only some lectures, but in a team you have team-work, fully fun-filled and memories that last a life-time.

David Kelly 18-01-2004 19:14

Re: Anybody else burned out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TeknoBramha
I wish I could marry a robot.

But unforunately, you are not allowed have more than one wivfe. So I cant. Though Robots are just fascinating.

In a classroom, you have no team work, and no fun, only some lectures, but in a team you have team-work, fully fun-filled and memories that last a life-time.

Don't bring back the dead.


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