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-   -   IE No Longer Getting Updated (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20927)

jonathan lall 23-06-2003 17:48

For the power-user, and especially any web developer, I can't think of one reason to use IE (as a main tool anyway). Opera and Mozilla derivatives are far more advanced and intuitive. Some suggested reading:

-101 things you can do in Mozilla... (this misses a whole lot of great features)
-Why you should switch to Mozilla Firebird (More of a Mozilla App suite vs. Mozilla Firebird document)

Matt Krass 23-06-2003 19:59

Wait, mozilla has the same kb shortcuts? That's odd, I'm using firebird right now and I need to hit CTRL+SHIFT+L to get my url. Is there any way to change that? A tweakable config file maybe?

Yan Wang 24-06-2003 15:05

If there was Safari for Windows, I'd use it. But luckily, I've got a fast enough computer more than enough knowledge to run Windows XP fine and it does what I need to do (and for the moment, that is to play Vice City at 1280x1024 with 32 bit color and draw distance maxed)... hehe.

HFWang 24-06-2003 21:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt Krass
Wait, mozilla has the same kb shortcuts? That's odd, I'm using firebird right now and I need to hit CTRL+SHIFT+L to get my url. Is there any way to change that? A tweakable config file maybe?
f6 works for me... and i think there is a way to tweak keyboard shortcuts. most definately NOT for the faint of heart though.

btw: since when did windows require a fast enough computer/enough knowledge? :-P my old windows 95 disk is install and go. windows 2000 is "click yes 20 times, then go grab some food, its gonna be awhile." i want your gfx card though.

Kyle: thats the thing, they're cutting off standalone development. you either subscribe to MSN and get the latest and greatest MS Browser, or you don't. They're still probably doing SOMETHING with those engineers, just don't expect to get it for free.

iBob 24-06-2003 23:06

Quote:

Originally posted by ...............
Nothing is wrong with Konqueror/KDE 3.x but it would just be nice to have it available if I ever wanted to use It. I'm not a big fan of Low CPU power at a high cost {Macs}.

I'd just like to point out that Apple produces the worlds fastest personal computer, it is also the first 64 bit processor in a personal computer and you can read all about it and the numbers from benchmark tests here http://www.apple.com/powermac/

Also, Safari has reached final 1.0 on Monday.

Yan Wang 25-06-2003 11:04

I would like to point out that Opteron came out a month or so ago and was the first 64 bit processor... obviously, anyone could've ordered that (and did) to make their own 64 bit personal computer. Apple's claim annoyed me.

Secondly, note that Apple manipulated the data for the benchmark tests. I thought something was weird and apparently so did other people. This appeared on slashdot yesterday and is quite disconcerning: http://www.haxial.com/spls-soapbox/apple-powermac-G5/

Btw, I can appreciate Safari though, but right now I'm just interested on getting the specs for the highly anticipated new laptop from Apple... hopefully a G5 and not an overclocked G4.

Adam Y. 25-06-2003 11:08

Quote:

Secondly, note that Apple manipulated the data for the benchmark tests. I thought something was weird and apparently so did other people. This appeared on slashdot yesterday and is quite disconcerning: http://www.haxial.com/spls-soapbox/apple-powermac-G5/
My friend and an advisor were talking about this at this years robotics competition. I just stared blankly at the both of them. In fact the only thing I really did understand was the advisor saying that all computer companies manipulates the data to make there computer look faster. It comes as no surprise to me.

iBob 25-06-2003 14:25

I figured someone would try to pull that crap and show that article. That guy ranted and raived but didn't have sufficent evidence. The specs were not manipulated to make the G5 look that much better. I've been reading many articles in the past few days and actually the test make the G5 look a little worse than it coudl be. If Apple wanted to manipulate results, it could have a number of ways to make the G5 appear even faster but instead chose to make it fair and test the systems on standard, equal benchmark tests. As for another 64bit processor... So what? This is the first shipped pc with one, and it is the fastest, regardless of how much u want to not believe the results.

Yan Wang 25-06-2003 15:45

I'll state that I'm not biased towards new technology, regardless whether it's from Apple or not. I agree that computer companies will manipulate data to make their computer look well and I disagree with this practice, regardless whether it's from Apple or not. The dual 2ghz is *fastest* according to what Apple put on their site but not all the time, especially with real appications which benchmarks do not simulate. And I don't understand what you mean it's the first shipped computer with a 64 bit processor... Opteron was released a bit back and it was shipped to companies and users. I just don't like Apple's bluntness in promoting their new hardware.

Joe Ross 25-06-2003 21:56

First of all, regarding that article. Some of the points that person makes are valid, and some are not. For example, when Dell publishes their spec benchmarks, they disable hyperthreading on the same tests. They wouldn't do that unless hyperthreading made them slower in those benches. Yes, SSE2 wasn't enabled but neither was altivec, considering that most applications aren't compiled for either, it was more valid to disable both. I don't like Apple's malloc library, though.


The new apples are the first Personal Computer with a 64 bit processor. I haven't seen Apple claim anything else. The Opteron is a server processor. AMD's desktop 64 bit processor will be out in a few months and called something else (Athlon64, last I heard). And of course, AMD isn't the first company to release a 64 bit processor. Itanium came out several years ago, and Alpha, Sparc, and PA-RISC have been around for over 10 years.

Besides, why are you complaining about dual 2ghz when the fastest opteron availible is dual 1.8ghz?

Kyle Fenton 25-06-2003 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
I would like to point out that Opteron came out a month or so ago and was the first 64 bit processor... obviously, anyone could've ordered that (and did) to make their own 64 bit personal computer. Apple's claim annoyed me.

Secondly, note that Apple manipulated the data for the benchmark tests. I thought something was weird and apparently so did other people. This appeared on slashdot yesterday and is quite disconcerning: http://www.haxial.com/spls-soapbox/apple-powermac-G5/

Btw, I can appreciate Safari though, but right now I'm just interested on getting the specs for the highly anticipated new laptop from Apple... hopefully a G5 and not an overclocked G4.

That article is just a bunch of rubbish.
First off I think SPEC test are the most stupid thing next to MHz. The reality is that there is really no good way to measure performance. Systems can be tweaked in certain ways, and it totally depends on a bunch of variables. Plus your system slows down anyways, when you add more programs.
I believed that Apple run the test as fair as possible. Probably more fair than everybody else does.

Overall I love the G5's. I am going to buy a 1.8 G5 by the time I go back to collage. The only thing to complain is that Apple was a little skimpy on the RAM (only 512mb), and they only got one optical drive slot. A word of caution though, the low end (1.6 GHz) only get 4 memory slots and no PCI-X. That aside, the G5s are top specs. Not just in the processor but the whole architecture is dramatically different and removes any bot-necks that the previous G4 had. Also I like how Apple now has somewhat of a decent roadmap than they did with the G4 era.

Is it the "World's Fastest Computer," well maybe. But it is fast enough for me. But you have to admit, it is cool telling people that you have a 64-bit computer. Because before now, 64-bit computers were only available to servers (Sun & Intel), and cost something like $10,000 a piece. 64-bit computers may not seemed relevant now, but soon 4 gigs of memory will not be enough for your needs, especially for Pros.

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee

I'll state that I'm not biased towards new technology, regardless whether it's from Apple or not. I agree that computer companies will manipulate data to make their computer look well and I disagree with this practice, regardless whether it's from Apple or not. The dual 2ghz is *fastest* according to what Apple put on their site but not all the time, especially with real appications which benchmarks do not simulate. And I don't understand what you mean it's the first shipped computer with a 64 bit processor... Opteron was released a bit back and it was shipped to companies and users. I just don't like Apple's bluntness in promoting their new hardware.

Like Joe said, the Opteron is a server processor like the Itanium and the Ultra Sparc 3. The Hammer will be AMD 64-bit/32-bit desktop processor, however I don't know when it is coming out.

At WWDC Steve Jobs clearly showed that G5 is quite capable in real world applications. It either meet or beaten the Intel processors. There will always are some apps that are more optimized or PPC than X86 and vise versa.

jonathan lall 31-08-2003 13:56

Interesting. Read the bottom part.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822071

Aignam 01-09-2003 07:12

I'm a big fan of Windows XP AND IE. I admit, my IE hates Java, so I simply use Opera when I need Java support (::cough tigerbolt cough::). But I do disagree with Windows being "large and monolithic". Windows is always going to have the most developer support. Always. No version of Linux or Mac will ever come close, not for a long time, anyways. And that's what it's about, isn't it. Being able to run your favorite programs, the best that there are, without having to dual boot or buy a second system (though that's always fun). As for IE, I actually find it less bulky than other browsers. It would be very hard to switch, and probably wouldn't speed me up too much. I would rather power-surf with a browser I've used for 5 years than take my time trying to find buttons on a faster, sleeker browser. It just isn't worth it. If you have XP and IE, and you're computer is slowing you down, put your money where your mouth is and buy a new system or a faster connection. As for me, I'll be playing SWG (1600 by 1200 -.- ) on XP. As for webdesign for IE, yes it's a pain in the arse, but it's the most used browser, so you NEED to design for it!

HFWang 03-09-2003 18:51

I never "DESIGN" for IE. I make sure it works, but I don't design for IE, I design for STANDARDS.

BTW: Large/monolothic is completely seperate from developer support. Windows could just be a lean mean OS, and STILL enjoy developer support. The thing is Windows has a tendency toward including stuff that really doesn't need to be included. (IE? Outlook? What does that have to do with being an OS? Its stuff like this that makes computers so "complicated".)

Aignam 03-09-2003 19:52

IE and Outlook are complicated??


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