Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Great threads like these deseve to live on forever.
It's been nearly three years and FIRST has changed alot even from 2003.
Not only has FIRST changed but the folks who have posted here have changed (Hopefully soezgg has too) and it would interesting to hear how they feel about FIRST today as well as the many poster who have joined FIRST since on what they think about the direction of the program.
It's gotten bigger but has it gotten better?

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I'm coming into this as a rookie, but I'll share my thoughts.

Ugh, my post just got deleted 'cause I spent too much time writing it. Could we please fix this thing where Chief D kicks you off after 2 minutes of "inactivity"? This is off topic, and I don't feel like re-writing all of that. I'll sum it up.

You haven't convinced me of your point. Maybe that's fine, since I don't think that that was your objective. I personally don't disagree but need more proof before I could agree.

I think I agree with your overall concern. In my team, I see a failure not only to buy into the principles of FIRST but also to completely buy into Team 1719. When I asked one of my teammates why he was here (at FIRST) if he didn't enjoy the work, he didn't have an answer.

I think you may be being overly pessimistic. Just being at FIRST has a subtle effect. I don't need to preach it to you, I suppose.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep thinking the good think!

Paul Dennis

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

One thing I've always wondered about the need for FIRST to change the culture is what is it's intentions.
To be on the tip of everyones tongue? On ESPN every week with a glitzy awards show at the end of the season and teams constantly on the cover of Newsweek and People?
In this media saturated world of today to be on top is to be overexposed and everybody else is competing for your attention.
I know everybody has taken Dean idea and ran with it but they knew that with rapid growth corruption would soon follow. For every Andy Baker and Paul Copioli there is a mentor who is looking to cut corners to get an edge. This has been brought up before, we want the growth but we want to do it without the trouble and strife. Well you can't have it both ways.
We want to change the culture but the culture is embedded in our societies DNA thus the culture is going to change us too and that's not always for the better. We saw the horrifying example last year with the media coverage of 192's temporary demise. Attention comes with the territory as well and you have to ask yourself : are we able to handle it? Because that's what happens when you are in the spotlight.
We already had a system for hundreds for years that was supposed to change the culture. It was organized religion (pick any one. They all have pretty much the same theme. Do good. Help other and at the end of your life you will be rewarded eternally for your good deeds) and it's one of the most divisive subjects. People are so busy debating it's merits many don't even pay attention to the message.
I mean if the threat of eternal damnation doesn't make you sit up and fly straight what will?
So what's the problem? People.They hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see. Take what they need and leave the rest. If that helps others then so be it. Some people are here to inspire, some to win trophies and other just to have a good time. Outside of screening people and significantly thinning the heard there really is no way to combat the "problem". Mainly because if we did that FIRST would become an elitist organization and would be dismissed immediately.
The main culprit in FIRSTs failure in getting it's message across is FIRST itself. When you go to regionals do you see any signs of anything outside of the robot? Why aren't the Chairman award entries displayed so people can see beyond the robot instead of relegated to the secrecy of some room in the back of the arena? What are they afraid of? Someone is going to steal their idea?
If somebody wants to copy some other team and start up other FIRST teams, make their schools more aware of science and technology, help other students and basically make the school environment a better place for God sakes let them and hurry up before they change their mind!
At the championship at least FIRST has the Hall of Fame so people can be inspired by the previous Chairman's award winners (I still think all the Woodie Flowers winners belong in there as well!) but FIRST has got to make a better effort to get the Chairman's award out in the open where people can see it instead of at the end of the competition , like some afterthought wild card that earns you a free pass to the championship.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Around 1900, when civil engineering was really starting to take off, transforming our society from agriculture to manufacturing, when bridges and skyscrapers and designed citys and communities first started to become a reality, engineers started thinking "if we can transform the physical world, we can also transform society".

Many of our present engineering societies were starting with this goal, not only refining the engineering professions, but transforming society and human nature.

It didnt happen.

Its always been my understanding the goal of FIRST is to change the way young people think and feel about science and technology. Ive never thought of FIRST as trying to change the world, or to grow into something more.

Sometimes we look at something, or some program, or some person, and we project the things we wish for onto them. Sooner or later you will end up being dissapointed.

FIRST is excellent for what it was intended to be. Being a scientist or engineer is a great career, its a great way to live. FIRST doesnt need to change that, all it needs to do is point young people in that direction.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I'm afraid I don't understand what your point, outside of the RCU bit, is. I agree wholeheartedly about the RCU, it's redundant and defeats the purpose of FIRST. It even uses the word "chicks". Wonderful.

What exactly are you saying... that a lot of people are in this program for shallow reasons and don't care about "changing the culture"? This is probably true.Your post comes across as naïve to me. Very few people will ever care about "changing the culture", in the context of FIRST or otherwise. Humans are social animals, we are hardwired to group together and follow one another, and great change only comes about through the rhetorical manipulation of the masses by a few skilled demagogues (and often, nutjobs). The rest just "muddle through", for lack of a less biased term.

Distracting yourself with concerns about other's dedication to the cause is unproductive. You can only focus on the present, on the immeadiate impact you can make.

As they say here inside the belway, all politics is local.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Just a word of caution of reviving old threads... Some of these messages were posted almost 2-3 years ago, and may or may not be relavant anymore. The original poster might even have changed his or her mind a long time ago.

So while it is great that you guys are continuing a great discussion, keep in mind that you are continuing it on the present day's context. Let's not dig up old threads and pick on old things. (Especially in a thread where I lost my temper :P)

Let's take the best out of the old discussion and make it a new, fun one!

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Thanks Koko Ed for reviving this great thread.

Like Whitman, the real world is large, and contains multitudes. Most of us who are getting older recall dreams of changing the world, which ran into annoying realities somewhere along the way. The important thing is to keep dreaming.

My own take is that cultural change happens slowly, and is usually hard to see except when looking backward. Looking for the kind of satisfaction that one gets by chopping wood, the dream of cultural change is easily frustrated. But FIRST abounds with opportunity to change lives, one at a time.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I really have to agree with the thoughts in this thread. I think that the gender stereotyping has taken away from some of the cooperative aspects of companies and associations like this. I also have to say that your thoughts were very well summarized and that this would definitely make a good addition to the library of must-read threads.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Hello everyone! I've always been a big reader of the forums but never joined, why not now?! A lot of excellent posts have been created here and everyone has thoughts that I agree with.

One of the things that I've noticed as a student of FIRST and will continue to emulate as a technology educator is to provide a positive experience for the students regardless of their concentration once they leave the program. The students who later emulate those positive experiences once they graduate turn out to become positive contributions to the culture FIRST hopes to have an influence on. Yes FIRST does hope to influence students to become interested in the areas of science, technology, and engineering but creating gracious professionals has always seemed to be FIRST's underlying goal. Probably one of the best parts about FIRST!

Keep it up, good stuff going on here!

Nate

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

something to keep in mind: you can not change other people.

you can change yourself

you can teach the next generation

you can start your own company and instill your culture and values, and lead by example.

If you want to change the world, YOU have to be the change.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

http://webreprints.djreprints.com/1224920953172.html

For those of you who never read the Barron's editorial from last May with some of Dean's and Woodie's sound bites about FIRST.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Amen! I couldn't agree with you more. I am inspired when I see a well-built, well-functioning robot on the field. I am inspired when I see a team working frantically in the pits to help another team get their robot in working condition so they can compete. I am inspired because I have a good idea of what those teams have done in the previous months to get to that point. But I often don't know much about teams other than how their robots are doing on the playing field.
Let's encourage teams to post their CA written submissions somewhere at each regional so we can all be inspired! Let's encourage FIRST to allow public viewing of the CA presentations so we can all be inspired (and wow, what a concept, giving a presentation in front of an audience just like you might have to do in real life!)!

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

you know, it use to be that teams could submit their chairmans award entry in a video format

now Im thinking, to get more public awareness, wouldnt it be awesome to see videos, a 3 or 5 minute presentation of what the chairmans award winner has done, right there at the regional? during the ceremony?

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

That's what I'm talking about!
You always here about these teams that have question about what to do and when the teams that excell in this aspect of FIRST show how it's done then they give the blueprint for the younger teams to follow.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

This was originally posted on 6-18-03 by Christina (#16)
"....The Robot Chicks Union is very important in FIRST. ...... They are there because it is easier for a girl to join a robotics team when they don't feel so out of place. You can not deny that there are generally less girls on a FIRST team. They're not trying to alienate people but trying to show the minority that it's okay to do something new. The RCU doesn't bring up the new idea that robotics is generally a guy related activity, this is already known. They are there to say it's okay to want to do this if you're a girl. The RCU is there for the girls that are afraid of going into a male oriented club or organization. And there will always be the people that believe girls are inferior to guys when it comes to engineering and robotics and that's also why the RCU is here. The RCU was an incredibly good idea, like a miniature version of SWE..."
The RCU serves a purpose....it is an organization not unlike ASME or NAACP...organizations that was created to help people of similar interests or needs. I am proud to say that I am one of the mentors of the RCU. I am not here to change people or the culture, just to lend support to those who needs it.