How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Attached is a 4-page (single-spaced, so groan now) Word document that contains some of my recent thoughts about FIRST's role in society and my role within FIRST. But, it's not as much about me, specifically, as I make it sound. I just wonder if other people are experiencing some of the same frustrations as I am.

Please note that the writing quality isn't my best. It contains a lot of unanswered questions that tend to make me feel disjointed. Your mileage my vary.


[edit]removed attachment. its in 2 posts below[/edit]

I don't have word installed. Can you post this in one or more posts?

Just for Brandon. :)
 

How We Could’ve Changed the Culture, But Didn’t.

I’ve been struggling with the direction FIRST has been moving in and my role in that movement for the past half-year. Sometimes publicly, sometimes privately, I’ve been consistently reevaluating why I became involved, what I hoped to achieve from my involvement, and what I hoped to personally gain. I’ve been asking if I have, or can truly make a difference.

When I signed on to this, way back in 1999, I hadn’t the slightest idea about what FIRST was or had been, nor where it was going. I only saw it as an intense, fun outlet for my creative mind. I didn’t give the other participants a second thought, and I never really took the time to consider the impact my mentors could have on me. Only in the years following have I gained a true appreciation for some of the amazing individuals that are peppered throughout FIRST, and with that, my desire to be just like them grew stronger and stronger. I don’t think any of us could really say that we don’t want to be something greater than we are. We all aspire toward becoming a bit more like our role models, and in FIRST, I found many of my role models. Interestingly, most are not older than I am.

Over the past 6 months, I’ve faced a constant challenge to my dedication to this program as a result of certain individuals, as well as prevailing trends among the largest groups of participants. A lot of what I’ve hoped to accomplish appears bleak and impossible, sometimes, and I’m not even sure if it’s the right thing to do anymore. In the past half-year, I’ve become riddled with self-doubt over my dedication and insistence on doing to the good thing for FIRST. With that came a lot of introspection and thought, and I so I am sharing some of the conclusions I came to here, with the hope that it might still effect a bit of change. My involvement here continues be a subject of heated debate within myself and among my friends.

I bought into Dean’s plan to change the culture hook, line and sinker. I thought it was just the opportunity I was looking for to be a real force of change in the broadest sense. I thought that together with FIRST, and largely because of FIRST, I’d have a shot at opening some eyes to an interesting new way of looking at life. I thought that some of the things I’ve had such trouble with in the past; the things that I hold in such high regard that go completely ignored by society might become a central focus. That competition wasn’t important and that FIRST broke through the boundaries of age, sex, gender and ability were among the most prominent factors in luring me in.

With time, I’ve come to realize that FIRST is as deeply entrenched in the same convention and culture as the society it’s trying to change. At least, this seems to be largely true. Where a lot of the basis for FIRST could be easily employed as a lifestyle, its often relegated to being just another extracurricular activity, or another tax write-off, or another way of getting your company’s product or logo onto television, or in the paper, or out a banner in some high school, somewhere. The enormous potential isn’t only being wasted, but utterly disregarded and tossed to the wayside. It’s not that people aren’t capable of understanding that potential, but that they’re lazy, and that they’re operating within parameters established by the conventional. They’re afraid, maybe, to break away from that. Recent discussion has illustrated this clearly for me, with particular regard to two of FIRST culture’s two most beloved groups.

Dean and Woodie each like to encourage high school students that have been in the program to move on to college or the work force and to remain dedicated to FIRST; not to its ideals, necessarily, but to the program. They want us to found new teams at our universities if they don’t yet exist, or they want us to support the teams that do exist. One of my “Question of the Week” topics revealed, interestingly, that a majority of students moving on to college factor the existence of a team at a certain school very heavily into their plans. Rather than start a new team, the majority chooses to follow the beaten path and go where a team exists already. This is great for those colleges with existing, successful programs, but does very little for Dean and Woodie’s goal of spreading FIRST to more schools.

Starting a team isn’t easy, and it’s probably not for everyone. But, rather than taking steps to make it easier and accessible by working toward establishing a visible number of College-FIRST partnerships and other programs, we choose the easier route. The fact is that everyone in FIRST sticks to convention, arguing often that “grades are more important,” suggesting to me that their belief in the potential of FIRST to change the culture doesn’t really exist. Where there is a perfect opportunity to begin challenging our cultures expectations of its youth by demanding that colleges and universities understand and adapt to their students, I see such opportunity being wasted and watch as people are encouraged to fall in line. We pay the tuition at these schools, so why are we giving in to their expectations of what we should be doing? Why are the other participants of FIRST, some young, some old, encouraging us to give in? Where’s the movement; the culture-changing wave of college students and new-born engineers that wanted to change the way things are done? I can’t find it anywhere and I can’t find the seed for it, either. The fire I had to make such changes is quickly waning in the never ending rainstorms of reality and laziness.

In the beginning days of FIRST, long before I would ever know what was going on, there existed an unparalleled, one-time opportunity to lay the foundation of a new culture with new convention and new tradition. FIRST and The Real World existed side by side, if just for a brief moment, each with the potential to decimate the other. The concept and the goal and the hopeful end result, of course, is that FIRST would grow to become large and important and influential, and that the best elements of FIRST would seep into The Real World, and that things would begin to change.

Because of that, I can’t truly understand the existence of some organizations within FIRST. On my mind of late, and possibly only because of the recent activity surround it, is the Robot Chicks Union (RCU). Why does the RCU exist at all?

Just a moment ago, I explained the potential FIRST and its newest, first participants had to create a new culture free of the worst trends in our own Real World and that the ultimate goal would seem to be introducing these new elements into The Real World. Well, with that said, it seems to me that the creation of the RCU shouldn’t have ever been necessary, and that its creation actually allowed The Real World to seep into the FIRST culture. It was, among other things, the apple to Dean’s Eden.

So now, in 2003, we have an organization that ensured its need by its very creation. By introducing and reinforcing the notion of gender stereotypification within FIRST by creating a group designed to combat it, and thus, by raising awareness to such stereotypes, the RCU is now a necessary element in tipping the scales of opportunity for woman and girls. So, of course, I’m not suggesting that the RCU need to be disbanded, but that it’s creation was totally unnecessary. Or, it should’ve been unnecessary.

But, where does that leave us? A large part of the RCU’s mission seems to be in recruiting new woman and girls to FIRST. While I realize that teams do this as well, I think that such recruitment by the RCU is damaging, and only goes to further existing stereotypes. What message does it send to a new participant when they’ve been introduced into our world of FIRST by a group who felt isolated enough to form their own organization, particularly when the new participant was specifically targeted by that group because of a physical characteristic? In my mind, that does not take any great steps toward creating gender equality, as it only seems to further highlight the irrelevant physical differences betweens boys and girls.

FIRST’s participants will always pledge support and praise for the RCU and its effort to bridge the gender gap, but it seems like they’re truly supporting the existing dichotomy. After all, isn’t it really saying, “I support your efforts to involve more people who aren’t like me?” Doesn’t it again point on the difference, acknowledge that there is a difference, and establish a precedent that can later be used to further propogate archaic stereotypes? If woman are just as capable as men, and we each truly believe that, what need is there for the RCU?

Again, I’ll offer that its existence ensures its necessity.

Sure, there are people in FIRST who may not necessarily agree with the assertions I’ve made and may truly feel woman to be inferior. If that’s the case, the RCU shouldn’t need to band together to combat such behavior and thinking. We all should, but yet again, it seems like the majority of participants are too lazy to think beyond their own college scholarships, job prospects, and trophy case.

I have tried long and hard to justify the trends I’ve been seeing among some participants of FIRST. I can’t. So, that’s why I’ve done so much thinking, and ultimately, that’s why I’m sharing my thoughts. I’m looking for answers.

I don’t believe that FIRST is without benefit, and that’s why I’m still evaluating my participation and haven’t left entirely. I believe that there are people who’re still making a difference, and that I’ve made a small difference, as well. So, while that benefit should certainly not go unnoticed, I can’t help but think that we’re limiting our own potential.

I’d like to stick around a bit longer and see a real change for the better. FIRST is growing at an enormous pace and with every year passed, it becomes increasingly easier to forget who your neighbor is and forget the accountability that comes with everyone knowing who you are. It’s becoming easier to read the rules a bit less carefully, demand that a call be changed, and get caught up in floating to the top of the growing pack. In what I’ve encountered, what’s easiest is almost never what’s best. For a change, let’s all stop taking the easy road and began the long, arduous hike up the road less traveled and really realize some of the potential we’ve wasted before – personally and as a community. Let’s understand that decades from now, the medals and the banners and the trophies will have meaning, but the way we behave toward one another will change the world.


That doesn’t mean that we should all agree to disagree, or that we should each be allowed to do whatever we see fit. We need, now more than ever, to keep each other in check by challenging opinions, actions, and beliefs. This is the watershed. This is when we can grow to be better than we are, or when we can descend into chaos and give in to the influence of the Real World. Now, I think, is when we need to be stronger and more vigilant and more aggressive than we’ve ever been about taking what we’re capable of seriously. Now is the time to make some changes before we’re each swallowed up that which we were running from in the first place. The Real World is catching up. Let’s work harder and run faster for a change.

Well written, and excellent points made. I think that everyone who reads this adapts to your point of view and sees the position that you are in. Many have fears as to what FIRST will become, few are doing anything prevent or stop these changes. It's good to see that someone is on the forefront of this, especially someone young that has a lot of heart into the program.

(Moreover, no readily apparent grammar or punctuation mistakes; that makes us English nerds extremely excited.)

How we still have the potential to change the culture despite the slow results
 

Thank you, M, for posting your thoughts. I’ve always enjoyed Chief Delphi Forum in the way it let you communicate with the rest of the world, even at the worst of times when I feel lonely and insignificant. It makes me happy to know that others are doing the same thing. (and if you are looking for perfect grammar and spelling from my posts, forget it, I don’t speak English)

I want to address some of the stuff you talked about in your post (I don’t think I could ever write as much meaningful words as you did in this thread), specifically the part about changing the culture.

How long do you expect anyone need to change the culture? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? How long did you think it took for humanity to evolve from Stone Age to the present age of technology? Granted, we are now capable of reaching everyone in the world with a simple phone call, or through the internet. Granted, we are now much more educated and enlightened then when our ancestors throw rocks at animals. But the same education and advancements are also hindering our effort to look at the bigger picture.

Our mind is a collection of all our experiences through out our lives, and we react to things in the world based on what those experiences tell us. Base on that, can you really expect everyone coming into this program to set aside every thing they’ve been taught for the past 10~20 years, and think with a mind as open-minded as a new born child? You are partially right, in that “It’s not that people aren’t capable of understanding that potential, but that they’re lazy, and that they’re operating within parameters established by the conventional.” But I would say that it’s not easy understanding the potential of what FIRST is capable of, ESPECIALLY because people have been operating within parameters established by the conventional, by the culture, by the society, by the environment around them. The very environment taught them that “this is how it is around the world.”

Some of them could perceive that potential, if they want to, but they don’t, because they are comfortable with the current situation of their lives. Some of them see FIRST as a new hobby to focus their talents in… Some of them see FIRST as something new they can bring to their students… And sometimes that’s as far as you can get to when you are trying to change people’s mind. You have to understand that not everyone is as perceptive as others in this world.

You said that “I’ve come to realize that FIRST is as deeply entrenched in the same convention and culture as the society it’s trying to change.” That is true too. Dean, Woodie, and FIRST staffs aren’t saints. They can not give the command “throw away all your previous experience and listen to our words as the truth of the universe”, and expect everyone to follow. That doesn’t mean they don’t want to do that. Their goal is still to steer our future as far away from the conventions in our current society as possible. But the end result doesn’t dictate how they have to be at the beginning. One of the more effective ways of accomplishing that is to work with the system, not change the system right away.

FIRST’s potential to change the world is still there. Heck, every human being has the potential to change the world, as long as the world still exist. Realistically, though, I don’t expect me, or Dean, or anyone out there to change the world into a better place in, say… 50 years. Does it mean human beings are incapable of changing the world? No. Does this mean we will trying very hard despite the slow results? You betcha.


I want to share something tonight, just like M did, about myself and an ideal I have. I shared a little bit in another thread already (see one of the closed thread in off season competition). I am convinced that human beings have the potential to be successful, and to continue to go on generations after generations, being more and more successful every time we learn something about ourselves and our goal. I have a dream where human being only spend time and resources to help each other out, and help the specie evolve into something better. No more fighting because there isn’t enough to go around. No more fighting because some of us want to be 1000000 times richer than others.

Do humanity have a chance in achieving that? I think so, as long as we don’t blow ourselves up with the weapons we have. Is it an unrealistic goal to achieve within my life time? I think so too. But knowing that doesn’t stop me from working hard to get humanity just a little closer to that goal. I understand what kind of challenges I am faced with. I understand how the existing system resists changes. I understand not everyone share my point of view. But I know I am also willing to be open-minded. Let my ideals be a guiding light in front of me whenever I am faced with different opinions, or challenges along the path. The guiding light tell me I do not yet know everything I need to know to accomplish my goal, but it also tell me that as long as I do some thinking of my own, I will see truth in everything that’s going to pass me by until I perishes away and go back to being part of the universe again. With that guiding light, I know I will continue to work hard toward that dream of mine, no matter how far it is.

Perfection is always used as a guideline when defining a goal… The same perfection that’s very real, but intangible at the same time. I understand that perfection sometimes is impossible to achieve. But, as long as I work hard reaching toward getting closer to that perfection, I think I am doing an ok job, and hopefully I can look myself in the mirror, and into the eyes of my friends and close ones, and not feel ashamed that I am just letting my life slip by.

Joe linked me here, and I have to say, both of you, M. and Ken, raise wonderful points. And I guess as one of the founding members of RCU, I should comment on the one part of your essay that no one has yet touched upon...so here is my attempt to dust off my account, and place my opinion down for record.



quote:
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So now, in 2003, we have an organization that ensured its need by its very creation. By introducing and reinforcing the notion of gender stereotypification within FIRST by creating a group designed to combat it, and thus, by raising awareness to such stereotypes, the RCU is now a necessary element in tipping the scales of opportunity for woman and girls.
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I suppose part of the way the RCU can be seen is due to something very simple. The very mindset between men and women are something alien to each other most times. I do not see the RCU as an organization that reinforces gender stereotypes, but rather, as one that supports those girls and women who must fight them day after day. A bridge between the genders, as you will. We will have to struggle harder than a man to get the same recognition, we will have to fight the stereotypes not only in FIRST, but in life. Take it from me, I attended school for Diesel mechanics and worked as an industrial painter for TVA, I've seen the "Real World" in action, and we do the students out there a disservice if we try to isolate them in a fantasy world. That aside, frankly, it's human nature to feel comforted to know that you are not alone. That is why I support the goals of the RCU even in my absence.

That said, I share many of your views. When I stepped away from FIRST, I was myself disillusioned. I had left my home team for personal reasons that stemmed from the fact that they simply didn't see what I had grasped onto as an ideal.... the idea that we could change the culture...even if just within FIRST for itself. I jumped from team to team, learning, seeking, absorbing everything I could. I got involved with a multitude of small organizations wanting to help change the world culture and show what FIRST had to offer. I saw it all stagnating. FIRST staff changes, team structure changes... FIRST was evolving, and I wasn't quite sure I was liking what I was seeing. I stepped away.

BUT - in the time that I have taken my hiatus, I have had time to mull over everything I learned in my time in FIRST way back in 1998. We are changing, and we are having growing pains. But, like Ken said, we cannot expect to change the world overnight. It will take time, it will take effort - it will take pure strength of will. But for each student like you or me that takes the simple IDEAL of what FIRST strives for away, we are changing the culture.

One young mind at a time.

And in reality, isn't that was FIRST strives for in the end?

As a newbie to FIRST I have not had time to become disenchanted. I do know why I help with FIRST. I am now 50 yrs old and sometimes disillussioned with things around me. A my first event in 2002 I went as a spectator to see how things ran as I was helping with a new regional. What I witnessed was not that which I normally see. I saw students working with mentors, teams helping other teams, good competion and unbelieveable sportsmanship. I said sign me up. This year was another eye opener. Joining a team as a mentor I saw things from a different side. This was like a small family trying to accomplish the impossible. On our team it didn't matter if you were male or female. If you were willing the job was yours. Our team I believe had more girls than guys. The jobs still had to get done so some of the girls were "pressed into action". We all learned a great deal. Did we have problems? You bet!! We have grown this year and look forward to next year. Constant growth and a possitive attitude is a must.
You may not see FIRST as others do. I personally find it as a refreshing change to the real world. If everyone that was involved this year takes just a bit of what FIRST is about with them, then change has begun.Every swimming pool is empty untill you add the "FIRST" drop. Slowly but surely that pool will fill up. After reading the above posts I can see passion still lives. Continue on your path with your head held high. Yes people will try and bring you into their line of thinking. Anything worth while will take a lot of effort to stay on course. But in the long run you will be rewarded with the knowledge that you stayed the course. Again I have been encouraged by your thoughts and ideas. Keep it coming.

I think the culture is changing abeit at a very slow rate. Look at television. Here are the shows we have now that relate to engineering, building, and technology:
Monster Garage
Junkyard Wars
Extreme Engineering
Robot Rivals
Monster House(Im pushing it a whee bit but it still relates to the design process and planning things out)
Modern Marvels
I could go on with other shows also.

Dare I say... Battlebots?
People watch for the carnage, but I think everyone still enjoys learning about the different robots and how they were designed and built. Battlebots IS a design competition. Viewers all across the country learn to appreciate an elegant design.

*shrug*
Just a different perspective to look at.

John

To be truthful Comedy Central ran battlebots into the ground. It was more hype than anything and this is coming from a faithful fan. Then again..... It was battlebots that got me into FIRST. Also if any of you guys get the DIY newtwork do check out robot rivals. I heard it is a good show without any destruction.
I have to stop watching television. Anyway it kind of impressed me to see the people on American Choppers mentor a high school kid on how to teach him how to make motorcycles.
This discussion reminds me of the Asimo commercials too. My family is the only family that has probably planned their vacation around a robot too.

One thing I learned is that with a group of people, the group is always trying to do "what's best for the group" at the moment. It is the individuals who can take the initiative to change the world. It is the individual who can decide they think the world is very wrong, and should do something to make it different.

I was talking to my mentor Ken Krieger about this, and he said "I can only do what I know how to do. And that is to affect one person at a time." As individuals, we all have limitations of our own. But even if you can affect one person at a time, and another, and another, then eventually they will affect people who cross their path, and you are spreading your ideas to lots and lots of people. Some of them might cross path with each other and your effect on them might amplify. It's kind of like sound waves spread out, and when the waves interfere each other, sometimes you get constructive inference that increase the magnitude of the wave.

I can still see the effect FIRST has on students, though. FIRST didn't change their view of the culture right away, but it did succeed in getting them into college. See, every time someone decide they want to go to college instead of staying around with their family business, FIRST succeeded in opening someone's mind. Sure, it's happening slowly, with one student at a time. But we are getting to the point where the first wave of college students are graduating college, and coming back into the program contributing bigger than ever. Within a few years, more and more FIRST college graduates will be coming back; with 4+ years of experiences armed behind them ready to jump start this program into the next level. How is FIRST going to handle that...? I will let FIRST worries about that.

Mean while, I am going to put all my energy in WRRF, and help it expand its program, and hopefully reach out to more people who understand what FIRST is all about. The amazing thing is, over here, FIRST brought a bunch of us together who wouldn't have known each other otherwise. Now, we are setting up WRRF as a non-profit, applying for grants and ready to set up jobs for people. FIRST didn't tell us we have to do this. But, FIRST did gave us a opportunity to meet the much of folks out there who think like us. If anything the networking value of the competition is great!

Let's do something about it
 

I don't want to say that everyone was offended by your post, M, but so far the only points made have been on the defensive.

I want to agree with you whole-heartedly because you simply aren't saying that FIRST hasn't been a good thing. You are just coming to question it because FIRST is changing (and the question is for better or worse, right?). I don't want to sound like an authority to congratulate you, but congratulations: in my mind if you don't question something you will usually with fall victim to it or you simply won't learn much.

Why don't we do something about this? I am with you on this - FIRST is becoming something that isn't wholely focused on it's own message. Why do I think that is happening? Because we don't even think of the other programs in FIRST when we say it. We think of the "FIRST Robotics Compeitition" which is actually only one part of FIRST. Today there is nothing that could possibly be bigger for FIRST and I would guess that the second most important thing is the FIRST Lego League. FIRST, as we saw even more this year and we will see more next year, does not have enough resources to do what they want/need to. This year a good amount of technical equipment was cut from some Regionals in order to keep expanding. Why expand? To get the message out there. To get the program out to more students and professionals. That's good and bad. There will always be those powerhouse teams that don't focus on the students enough (I believe Team 71 is one of them, having been on the team and been on and seen other teams). But the FIRST Robotics program does have a positive effect. I feel, however, that the program is growing so much that it's at a turning point. When I started work to have a team this past season, I felt like I was getting my fellow students involved into this growing community where each and every person has a real ownership in the entire experience. I'm not saying that's gone - but it's diminishing. FIRST Robotics, in my mind, will continue to grow and be the tool of experience that it is now for many teams. For many teams it will also become the capitalistic focus that Nascar is today. That's ok. But FIRST Robotics is not enough. It will not be able to carry on the full meaning of FIRST - that idea of change in culture that Dean set out for so long ago. It will have an impact, but as you said: we're not at our full potential.

So, working on the idea that FIRST isn't bigger than us because we are FIRST, let's make some changes. FIRST itself is a group of people working on FIRST's message (in the boardest sense) but almost all of the people are concentrated on this competition. How can we organize and expand this group of people that want to get up off our lazy butts and make more of an impact. Having a life dedicated to FIRST is having it's wear on people (the thread about burning out shows that well). I think that's because it's becoming so well based on this competition. Many teams work round the year to get the funds they need. There are off season competitions. Now we even have a preseason Edubot (which is ok - that's for learning anyway). But it's all so much and it's not working on FIRST so much as it's working on that one element of FIRST - the robotics competition.

A little disclaimer: I love FIRST. I love the competition. If you read some of my other posts, you'll see that I was on stage in St. Louis with a bad fever. My message is NOT that Dean, Woodie, FIRST staffers, or FIRST participants have gone astray on a path that should not be traveled. That path, in my mind, is the way that FIRST Robotics itself should follow in order to serve its purpose. What I'm saying is that FIRST Robotics is becoming a limited tool that is inadequate for exercising the true potential of so many people. I borrow some ideas from M and I add my own - as food for thought and as inspiration:

Let's do it.
Let's do more.

You can hit reply, e-mail me (mensing@bu.edu), or IM me (general198 or AcademyFreek). I would love to discuss this with anyone.

This post has, once again, raised a number of issues in my own mind about the goals of FIRST and how others interpret what is meant by something said.

I’ve currently been left wondering what the overall goal of FIRST is. The reason for this is that I did not come into the FIRST program until the 2001 season. When I did enter, it was explained by the high school teacher that the emphasis of this program was to *inspire* and *recognize* science and technology. Yet, I find myself confused after three years in this program about what the word *inspire* truly means. With all the different teams and mentors currently in the program, it is understandable that a person would come across a variety of ideas about what “inspiration” is.

From what I understood at the beginning, however, I am finding that few to no adults in the program believe “inspiration” in the same way I do. I have come to believe that the FIRST program is not just about showing students science and technology and then hoping that they continue on in college in some technical field, but that the program should actually be *targeting* specific students that wouldn’t ordinarily have the opportunity to see it. Currently, however, in the area that I live in, the schools that are primarily involved in FIRST are from middle-class (and above) areas. The students on these teams are the ones that, with relatively rare exception, already know that they are going to go to college. And, like myself, they would have found their way into the sciences, if they so desired.

Yet, to me, the students that are attending lower-class area schools are the ones that should be getting involved in this program. How many possible engineers are we losing because their lives have not been touched by this program simply because they are in a low-income school? How many of these students are not being *inspired* in the areas of science and technology? How many of these students are not getting the chance to realize that college is not an impossibility? These are the students that I believe the program should be inspiring.

But the overall goals of FIRST are not the only thing that is being interpreted in a variety of ways. Take, for example, Dean’s homework assignment to the graduating seniors to start new teams. Some people are saying that next year’s college freshmen are supposed to start teams on their own and compete in next year’s competition. Yet, what Dean said could actually be interpreted that next year’s freshmen should go out and network with professors, local high schools, and community members that might be interested in getting a team together in the next several years. I’m sure there’s another way of looking at what Dean said that isn’t stated here. The point is that most people will interpret something that’s said however they want to interpret it.

I know this doesn't answer the question, but hopefully it will raise more questions in another person's mind.
indieFan

P.S.- As another example of various interpretations, I always saw RCU as a possible networking opportunity and bridge between high school students and SWE (Society of Women Engineers) at the college and professional levels.

I just wanted to take a moment to thank people for reading and replying to this thread, whether you agree or disagree with the ideas I put out there.

I know that for some it's boring, and some don't want to be bothered with it, and some don't want to touch it with a 10' pole. More replies are coming, as well.

I'm not going to say more about this than I already have because my intention was not to enter into a debate or dialogue with anyone, but to clear my conscience. That I am able to share my thoughts publicly and that people are willing to take the time to consider them and offer their interpretations and opinions is a great bonus.

Again, thank you.

Note: This post was written by Christina Alzona and Joe Ross, because it takes both of our brains to be able to understand and respond to the above post


Like Ken said, it's great to be able to hold discussions on chiefdelphi without arguments.

First off, it sounds like you've discovered one of the great truths (or is it dirty secrets) about human beings, that we are lazy. You've also discovered that we are set in our ways. When you look at the world with those realizations, you get a much better understanding of why the world is the way that it is. You also realize that the world will never be Utopia. You can always work to make it better, closer to Utopia, but until every human on the planet isn't lazy and stubborn, we won't make it.

It also sounds like we have different interpretations of what Dean, Woody, and Dave Lavery mean when they say they want to change the culture. We take it as a limited goal. They want to make sure that every student will have the chance to be exposed to engineers and engineering practices. Only then can someone decide if engineering is the right career goal for them. This still causes a change in the culture, because currently, there are many people who don't have any idea what an engineer really does. This is what breaks down stereotypes about engineers. When you say that you want to change the culture, it seems that you want to break down all stereotypes, all barriers, and all inequality. This is most certainly a worthwhile pursuit, but not what we believe to be the goal of FIRST.

You're right, starting a team at college isn't easy and it isn't for everyone. We chose to go to college. It was not required, unlike high school. Because of this, grades are important. The question becomes, do you go to college for FIRST or to become an engineer? We chose to go to RIT because it's a good school, with good programs, and because the coop program it hosts can be a wonderful opportunity. We felt that these allow us to become better engineers. When we went to RIT, the fact that they had a FIRST team was a motivator, but it is most importantly an extra-curricular activity. We pay tuition to get a good education and that is why we follow their class schedule. FIRST is a wonderful program and doing it in college is a wonderful experience. School comes before robotics. When you pay a private school's tuition for your education (even though RIT is relatively low), you better believe we're going to try to get good grades and get everything we can out of our classes. Our tuition goes towards our classes not towards robotics. By choosing to put our classes before FIRST, you might argue, we are limiting our potential to change the world. That may be so, but by choosing to put FIRST before our education, we are also limiting our potential. FIRST as itself should change the world without hurting our engineers...and by having people believe FIRST is more important their education, it's going to hurt our future engineers.

What makes a college run team different then a corporate run team (at the same high school)? It gives the college students an experience that they probably won't get elsewhere. So why then should college students start new teams? To benefit themselves (add greedy to the list of human characteristics). If someone chooses not to start a team, should they be berated? No, rather they should be thanked for putting in whatever time they do. Do you tell someone who volunteers one night a week at a soup kitchen that they should be volunteering every night a week, and complain to the world that they don't?

The Robot Chicks Union is very important in FIRST. You said yourself, "FIRST is aimed at those girls on your team. They don't know anything about mechanics, or electricity, or programming, or machining. They have no interest in it, either. They're perfect candidates for FIRST." This is why we need the RCU. The RCU isn't there to scream out "girls are inferior!" They are there because it is easier for a girl to join a robotics team when they don't feel so out of place. You can not deny that there are generally less girls on a FIRST team. They're not trying to alienate people but trying to show the minority that it's okay to do something new. The RCU doesn't bring up the new idea that robotics is generally a guy related activity, this is already known. They are there to say it's okay to want to do this if you're a girl. The RCU is there for the girls that are afraid of going into a male oriented club or organization. And there will always be the people that believe girls are inferior to guys when it comes to engineering and robotics and that's also why the RCU is here. The RCU was an incredibly good idea, like a miniature version of SWE.

If you want to change the culture in the way that I believe that you do, why chose FIRST? NOW, NAACP, ACLU, and LGBTA (and hundreds more) all have significant cultural barriers to overcome. If you were to choose another organization (say a model railroad group) you would find similar resistance to changing cultural principals. If you want to make the world more tolerant, you might have better luck working with one of the above organizations. If you want to make the world more tolerant of engineers, then FIRST is the right place.

Christina Alzona / Joe Ross

Yeah we will become non lazy. We just need something to light a fire underneath our pants. I have a theory but.... It is kind of grim.

First of all I would like say I am proud to have M. Krass and Ken L. speaking out and representing us college students so eloquently. As a relative unknown on CD I have been reading this thread and have been debating whether to add my piece. So much has been said already that echoes many of my own thoughts and feelings. I guess the first place to start so you have a better idea where I am coming from is to tell you a bit about my FIRST experience. (I know this thread is a lot of reading so you may skip the next 2 paragraphs if you wish. They give some quick insight into my FIRST experience so far. Bear with me on this; I’ll keep it short)

I started my FIRST journey in 1998 at Ely High School in Pompano Beach, FL on Team 132. The first year our team consisted of approximately 15 students and one teacher and a perpetually drunk machinist sponsor. During build period we worked night and day building our robot for the competition, but not much else. There was a team structure and the team’s spirit was great however all the other elements that make FIRST what it is were missing for me in high school. With literally no engineering mentorship I now find that, and believe, that it is a must have for any team. Now don’t get me wrong, a team can be student run and student built and still be successful, however I know looking back I would have liked more mentorship and guidance when I was in high school. (Oh by the way, we did eventually drop him as a sponsor after incidents involving alcohol at the competition.)

That said, I still enjoyed the program so much that I and another student from my high school went to Georgia Tech and began the process of starting what was then to be the only team in the state. I must admit that a large part of my reason initially for starting a team was to try to give to those students an opportunity I thought I had missed out on. This as you can probably guess is not the right mentality. A small team was formed in 2001 at a local, predominantly minority, school consisting of a handful of high school student a teacher and a small group of eager college mentors. In short, the first year was a failure and a success wrapped in one. We had pushed so hard to start a team (got the funding and everything through Tech) that even though early on when we realized that the teacher did not want to put the time in to help run the team we continued to pushed forward. The team did not make it passed its first year and my and a couple other dedicated FIRSTers grades suffered for that semester. This really discouraged me and I spent many months thereafter wondering how a teacher, someone who has the job of inspiring and teaching young minds, could be so blatantly uncaring about the future of their students. So, how could this have been a good thing? The silver lining to this story is that this team and its robot gave us the stepping stone we needed to encourage more participation and involvement from the college itself.

From that experience I learned that no matter how much you want someone to see and feel FIRST the way you do, you cannot force them. All you can do is be a positive influence and let others see the way FIRST can change a person’s life though you.

Fast forwarding to the present day we are up to 15 teams in Georgia and all over the nation and internationally FIRST is growing at an accelerated rate. I believe this growth is indicative of the culture change that M. Krass spoke about even though, I believe, the change is still mostly contained within FIRST circles (teams and their sponsors). Groups such as WRRF are slowly but surely instigating this culture change around their area. All we can do as individuals, teams, or college organizations is to work on making the change in our area, even if that is only reaching out and changing the life of 1 student, parent or mentor who in turn will hopefully continue the cycle.

On the flip side there are some that see this growth and push for more and more teams as a bad thing that will eventually create in essence a watered-down FIRST. This combined with Dean’s push to create a more TV friendly and flashy FIRST has many people worried about where FIRST might be heading. On this I agree with Ken when he made the statement, “One of the more effective ways of accomplishing that is to work with the system, not change the system right away.” Dean is walking a tightrope with FIRST. On one side he is trying to get the public more aware of its existence while at the same time maintaining the essence of what FIRST really about. I think so far he is doing a good job.

Well, I have rambled on enough and I’m not sure I added anything new, but I just thought I’d say hi and add a couple of my thoughts to the pot.

How could we change the culture? I think the question here is what part of the culture you want to change? It is true, that FIRST has not had a profound impact on all areas of our culture as of yet, but there has been some definite change. Let’s look to another area other than gender/educational one talked about earlier.
It is no big secret that society today glorifies violence. Especially in the inner city areas, violence is commonplace and the music, movies, and literature reflects it. (Also, just to clarify things, I am not picking on the inner city. I work as an EMT in the inner city in Los Angeles, and am speaking from personal experience.) FIRST has a growing number of teams from inner city schools now. The students on these teams have a great chance to do something positive despite all the negative opportunities they have around them every day. FIRST always stresses we are to have a higher standard than the society around us and, that "gracious professionalism" should be our guide. Instead of idealizing violence and getting caught in the endless cycle of violence that occurs there every day, the students on the inner city teams learn to strive for something better, something positive, something wholesome. Time and time again, I have heard stories of gang members, teenage mothers, and poor students in inner city areas turning their lives around, going to college, and being on their way to being productive citizens. Their lives have been changed, and, as a result, in a small way the society around them has been changed too. In EMT school our teacher told us "If you save a life, you save the world" I think FIRST is much the same way, "if you change a life, you change the world"

I ususally hate to rain on parades - wait, nevermind, I kind of like it - but it seems like this topic is incredibly redundant.

I mean, its not like people can really do anything at all by making uneducated speculations on FIRST's impact in the world unless they can experience it first hand for every single individual.

Untill one can do that, they will make vague comments on how FIRST changes the culture based on what they personally see and hear. Cool.

Sure, its nice for people to think about these things, I mean to really THINK about it in their spare time. But really the brain power could be used for something much more valuable.

So while we brainstorm a more valuable waste of time I have a question: How many gigabytes of archived posts relating to this topic are on CD? My guess: at least one.

Anyway, yeah word up FIRST is the shiznit and whatever, changed my life, Ill be back next season to mix this boring old forum up.

STeeeeve

“Changing The World” in a wonderful Glittering Generality like “Truth” and “What is Right.” Due to a few million years of awesome evolution, every one of us humans has a different view of what the world is and how it should be changed and what is causes the changes we see. Even if I can't “experience it first hand for every individual,” I'm going to take a shot at sharing my experience and opinions so that maybe someone out there can make an educated decision.

Last year through the help of a few wonderful teachers I joined a team of nerds who had a lot of thoughts and concepts but no idea how to do anything with them from my rival high school (rivals in everything except robotics now) and through the mentoring of Georgia Tech and skyman9000 (we're the team that happened in between the unsuccessful first year and this year”s 15 teams), we learned ACTION and were introduced to FIRST and formed our own opinions on what it was. As a 15-year-old sophomore I started a team at my own high school this year and led another group of nerds with ideas into the realm of action. I can”t find any fun stereotypes that we fall under because we're not in an area with any dearth of engineers or money (my favourite real estate sign: “From the low $1 millions”) but we still couldn't find anyone who would give us money (I know, we didn't try hard enough) and we only found one mentor who taught us more about life than about robots (which is really a good thing, because he was there to be the mentor and I was there to be the teacher.) We didn't make a robot that was all that great; instead we joined a new culture that was not the bored disinterest we have lived with through our childhood, but was rather the truth and drive to make things happen.

The concept of A Culture or The Real World is flawed in today's society because we have enough freedom and resources to support the numerous cultures that co-exist not so peacefully. Many of you have been talking about FIRST at the prime mover for an engineering based culture, but today's cultures are not as much about activities like building robots or playing sports, they are about attitudes and how we go about doing these activities. The “cultures” that many people believe in that are based on such stupid trivial things as the activities we take part in are merely Granfalloons, meaningless restrictions we have placed on ourselves because we think we want or need them. The culture some of you like M. Krass see as the true FIRST which has become tainted is actually self-motivation and moral integrity. The cultures that are being corrupted with are laziness and greed.
Selfish companies trying to use FIRST to further themselves are tainting the teams they use by parading themselves under the ideal that FIRST has become by its creating so many outstanding citizens. Greed on a more personal level is using FIRST and we see it through those who are too worried about winning the competitions for personal glory or by eliminating other mentors as though they were competition.
The culture of sloths is infecting FIRST and creating these teams where the students have no drive to even help with their robot, they just want to see a finished product to put their name on. Through this, some teams face the build as a fun thing to watch rather than a chance to take action and learn by this action.

These two cultures are killing off the strong culture FIRST is by hijacking its altruistic ideas and using it as a vessel for their own filthy ways. What we need to do is not to try to protect the literal parts of FIRST that have created this culture of honor and action and focus on finding other ways to bring gracious professionalism into a position of prominence in our society. FIRST has done what the Boy Scouts once did; it is an institution that trains children who have potential but no direction to be strong adults who can not only figure out how to solve the problems they are faced with, but have the motivation to put these ideas into action.

Through forcing me to teach myself how I want to live my life, FIRST has changed my world and brought me into a culture that I am proud to be a part of will try my hardest to keep honorable. FIRST will continue to change the world through the culture that all of us in this organization are part of so long as we preserve the integrity that we know and spread it to others.

Paul Luffel


P.S: Jeremy, I don't think I got to tell you in person, but you and Anne changed my life.
P.P.S: Through all of the ideas and concepts on this forum, one of you English nerds could probably put together and entire book on the FIRST Philosophies.

Steve, or should I call you STeeeeve?
Listen buddy, and listen good, because I'm only going to say this once. I try really hard not to post things like this, but you have genuinely pushed me over my limit.

Whenever you hear a veteran of this program, talking about how "things are changing". They are talking about YOU. Whenever you hear a mentor complaining about too much negativity on ChiefDelphi, they are talking about YOU. Whenever you hear someone say things like "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" they are talking to YOU.

I strongly believe, that we'd all be much better off, if people like you would just shut up, and listen. This forum is filled with a lot of brilliant engineers, and all kinds of people enthusiastic about teaching. Just imagine if for one second, you'd LISTEN to them. Imagine what you could learn! I mean, how old are you? 15, 16? You might think you know everything there is to know... but YOUR FREAKING WRONG! I'll share something with you, that my father taught me from an early age: "You listen with your ears, not with your mouth".

What makes you think WE want YOU to "mix this boring old forum up"? Why would WE want YOU to come in here, and stir up trouble, start pointless debates, and fill this forum with mindless negativity?

Why would you EVER chime into a discussion, to say you think the discussion is pointless?

Ask yourself this...
What happens when you sit down at a job interview one day, and sitting across the table from you is some engineer who's parade you enjoyed raining on?

Who are you to judge the rest of us?
If you don't like the discussions that are going on... STAY OUT OF THEM!

I will not delete this post, or edit it. I will not apologize for my harsh words. I'm sick and tired of seeing things like this go on.
ChiefDelphi IS changing... and if people like Steve here are the future, I'm not sure I like it.


John

Brandon - do as you will.

STeeeeve-

Like John said, maybe you should read a little before you post negatively. There are a plethora of good, knowledgeable people out there willing to help, but they are all turned away by negativity like yours.

I won't go on a long rant here, i'll just request that you and anyone else who thinks about posting think about what they are saying, and if they would say something like that to their grandparents, or their boss... treat everyone as if they are very important people, since many of the people who read these forums are just that.

Tom

I stand behind John and Tom on this matter.

I am the first to speak up for all views to be heard - when they bring something worthwile to the conversation. That's not to say they have to agree with everyone's comments, but be of substance on their own. You came charging into this thread like a bull in a china shop.

Granted, I've not been around this forum in an awfuly long time now, but there are reasons why. And you are one of the most glaring examples of a reason to stay away I've seen in a good while.

I imagine a few more years and a dose of life will show you exactly where John and I come from on this end.

Brandon, do what you will, but I implore you not to delete John's comment. From what I've seen lurking around, it's more than time for someone to say something in situations like this.

~ lora

I'd just like to say, Bravo, John!! You're always good at saying what needs to be said. I won't go on and on, but I agree with what you said. No editing is in order, in my mind. It's what I've thought all along, just phrased a little better than I would've put it.

This thread is doing a wonderful job of showing some of the changes FIRST has undergone. We have the example of the student who does not see a goal to be obtained, just a fun journey. After that we have the strong mentor who chastises him and realizes what they are doing through this and merely put forth their ideas and don"t consider themselves the ultimate view of what is right. Once this strong view is presented, several people show up not to go further and explain goal or ideals to the misguided student who has just been reprimanded, but rather to yell at them more and then go even further and say that John is exactly right, which even he acknowledges is not true. As he stated at the end of his post "Brandon - Do as you will." he knows that what he says is not proper in a conversation of peers, but is necessary to show the student the error of his ways. John"s post pleases me greatly that someone I respect and look up to would take action, but the people after him who just chime in to say "yay!" and not add anything to the discussion are nearly as guilty as Steve at tainted the idea of FIRST. In a discussion about how FIRST has fallen from the path of righteousness and how that should be changed, a perfect example springs up as to how it has fallen and also a perfect chance to help rectify this has come up. By continuing what John has started, those of you who believe he has done the right thing in correcting Steve could have gone on to teach Steve what is right rather than just commending John on his initial confrontation.
We students may do foolish things, but that"s why people under he age of 18 are minors with limited rights. When ever we mess up, we need you mentors to tell us that what we did is wrong, just like John did, but we also need the others of you to teach us what is right, rather than just telling us not to do it again. Just like the anti-drug campaign, people don"t need to be told once more that drugs are bad, rather they need something to do [i]instead/I] of drugs.
Any suggestions as to what we can do to be better FIRSTlings?

Some things just need saying. Thank you, John.

If ignorance is bliss, STeeeeve here must be in seventh heaven.
As always, we appreciate your opinion, we (being the assumed collective of FIRST individuals) don't agree.

You are what I'm working against, you are what I fear that FIRST will turn to without guidance or work, and you are the exact type of uninformed person that places like CD dread.

in respond to STeeeve's message
 

You are right, STeeeeve, we will never experience what FIRST does to every single individual first hand. But uneducated speculation? That’s a little over the line, don’t you think? I suppose since your human body limit you to experience everything first hand only in your body, you should never believe what anyone ever tell you. After all, they are just “uneducated speculations”, right?

Now, if you cannot believe anything non-first-hand, I guess you never listen to your parents, teachers, friends, neighbors, cousins, relatives, and robotics teammates. Cool.

Sure, it’s nice that you take such an interesting position in your life, and take your precious time off your tight schedule of intellectual exploration and truth finding. But why are you wasting your time posting to educate us when you can spend every second you used typing that message to go experience the world first hand?

So while I brainstorm a more valuable waste of time trying to reply to your message, I have a question of my own: Why would a person as intelligent as you could come in here and done nothing worthy of that description?

But I doubt you are around anymore to see what we have to say about your message, since you will “be back next season to mix this boring old forum up”. Such a brave thing to do: just come in here, post a message undermining everyone’s effort to share a part of themselves, and run away.

You see, STeeeeve, through out my years in FIRST, I’ve experienced many phases a FIRSTer would go through in first person. That include joining a high school team, graduating high school, going to college, doing FIRST during college, volunteering at events, teaching workshops, running off season competition, etc etc etc. Every year I see high school students graduating, inspired and motivated about going to college, wanting to do more with their lives then they’ve ever been. And that’s as close as you can be to experiencing FIRST first hand.

I can tell you the above messages are far from uneducated speculations. All of us have poured our heart and soul into this program, and everyone of us is worthy of writing a book worth of material about FIRST. But since you can NEVER experience what we’ve been through in first hand, I suppose you will never understand. But that doesn’t really matter, does it? I don’t know about others, but I do FIRST because I think it’s the right thing to do. I never do it to impress anyone, and I certainly don’t do it to impress you.

Everyone in here is trying to share what they think about something important to them, and trying to learn what others have to say about it. It’s a truly stimulating intellectual experience. But you have to come in here, interrupt the discussion with your observations, and make people waste time to respond to your unconstructive message…

I thought every human being is capable of showing a little respect to others... I guess I am wrong.

STeeeeve, I thank you for showing people what not to do, and hope your journey in life is as satisfying and stimulating as ours are.


I apologize for sinking to Steeeeve’s level when I write this. But I said what have to be said, in my opinion, just like John, Tom, Lora, Jeff, Paul, and Amanda.

I think it’s time we all step back a little bit, think about what’s being said, and try not to disrupt this discussion any further. This forum provides a friendlier, meaningful, and focused conduit for participants in FIRST to connect and communicate on the internet. This board is for discussion, fact finding, and encouragement for the FIRST community. Let’s keep it that way, and nothing more.

I was really enjoying this posting...
 

I was really, really enjoying the exchanges and ideas of this posting until post#19 by Steeeeve.

Steeeeve, in a couple of years I think you may change your view about alot of things.

:(

This is one of the best postings I've ever read.
:)

I have watched the program with a reverence and respect since my first nationals experience while traveling with my sister's team. Sure the competition was great, amazing machines, huge flashy teams, can't beat the X-Cats banner ;) The overwhelming mixed feelings of need and amazement towards technology in the world and technology adapted by the students could not have been experience by just me. And then I got to the awards ceremony... Wow, I had never been so moved in my life. I wasn't even on a team and I was already ready to go out and build bridges, build robots, build a new world. 5 years later, 5 years of personal and team problems and I'm still here. Why am I coming back next year? The same reason many weathered firsters do, for the future. My 14-year old brother. I have been bringing him in to FIRST during the build sporadically. I'll show him the robot, show him whatever I'm working on, show him how to square up on part on the mill. My brother has an amazing mind despite the fact that he is labeled LD because of problems he has with reading. He needs to know what he can do with his mind. He is a whiz with math, observant, a quick learner. All he needs is someone to show him that he *can* do it. He *can* become an engineer no matter how many labels are put on him. That's why we keep on coming back. To help make a better tomorrow,to prevent out mistakes from happening again, to help our youth feel the same inspiration as we did. Isn't that worth the work? Next time you're disappointed with the program, people, even society- Think of my brother, a rookie on your team, an amazing kid without a team in his/her area. Thank you to all of the mentors, You ARE changing the future.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Great threads like these deseve to live on forever.
It's been nearly three years and FIRST has changed alot even from 2003.
Not only has FIRST changed but the folks who have posted here have changed (Hopefully soezgg has too) and it would interesting to hear how they feel about FIRST today as well as the many poster who have joined FIRST since on what they think about the direction of the program.
It's gotten bigger but has it gotten better?

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I'm coming into this as a rookie, but I'll share my thoughts.

Ugh, my post just got deleted 'cause I spent too much time writing it. Could we please fix this thing where Chief D kicks you off after 2 minutes of "inactivity"? This is off topic, and I don't feel like re-writing all of that. I'll sum it up.

You haven't convinced me of your point. Maybe that's fine, since I don't think that that was your objective. I personally don't disagree but need more proof before I could agree.

I think I agree with your overall concern. In my team, I see a failure not only to buy into the principles of FIRST but also to completely buy into Team 1719. When I asked one of my teammates why he was here (at FIRST) if he didn't enjoy the work, he didn't have an answer.

I think you may be being overly pessimistic. Just being at FIRST has a subtle effect. I don't need to preach it to you, I suppose.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep thinking the good think!

Paul Dennis

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

One thing I've always wondered about the need for FIRST to change the culture is what is it's intentions.
To be on the tip of everyones tongue? On ESPN every week with a glitzy awards show at the end of the season and teams constantly on the cover of Newsweek and People?
In this media saturated world of today to be on top is to be overexposed and everybody else is competing for your attention.
I know everybody has taken Dean idea and ran with it but they knew that with rapid growth corruption would soon follow. For every Andy Baker and Paul Copioli there is a mentor who is looking to cut corners to get an edge. This has been brought up before, we want the growth but we want to do it without the trouble and strife. Well you can't have it both ways.
We want to change the culture but the culture is embedded in our societies DNA thus the culture is going to change us too and that's not always for the better. We saw the horrifying example last year with the media coverage of 192's temporary demise. Attention comes with the territory as well and you have to ask yourself : are we able to handle it? Because that's what happens when you are in the spotlight.
We already had a system for hundreds for years that was supposed to change the culture. It was organized religion (pick any one. They all have pretty much the same theme. Do good. Help other and at the end of your life you will be rewarded eternally for your good deeds) and it's one of the most divisive subjects. People are so busy debating it's merits many don't even pay attention to the message.
I mean if the threat of eternal damnation doesn't make you sit up and fly straight what will?
So what's the problem? People.They hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see. Take what they need and leave the rest. If that helps others then so be it. Some people are here to inspire, some to win trophies and other just to have a good time. Outside of screening people and significantly thinning the heard there really is no way to combat the "problem". Mainly because if we did that FIRST would become an elitist organization and would be dismissed immediately.
The main culprit in FIRSTs failure in getting it's message across is FIRST itself. When you go to regionals do you see any signs of anything outside of the robot? Why aren't the Chairman award entries displayed so people can see beyond the robot instead of relegated to the secrecy of some room in the back of the arena? What are they afraid of? Someone is going to steal their idea?
If somebody wants to copy some other team and start up other FIRST teams, make their schools more aware of science and technology, help other students and basically make the school environment a better place for God sakes let them and hurry up before they change their mind!
At the championship at least FIRST has the Hall of Fame so people can be inspired by the previous Chairman's award winners (I still think all the Woodie Flowers winners belong in there as well!) but FIRST has got to make a better effort to get the Chairman's award out in the open where people can see it instead of at the end of the competition , like some afterthought wild card that earns you a free pass to the championship.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Around 1900, when civil engineering was really starting to take off, transforming our society from agriculture to manufacturing, when bridges and skyscrapers and designed citys and communities first started to become a reality, engineers started thinking "if we can transform the physical world, we can also transform society".

Many of our present engineering societies were starting with this goal, not only refining the engineering professions, but transforming society and human nature.

It didnt happen.

Its always been my understanding the goal of FIRST is to change the way young people think and feel about science and technology. Ive never thought of FIRST as trying to change the world, or to grow into something more.

Sometimes we look at something, or some program, or some person, and we project the things we wish for onto them. Sooner or later you will end up being dissapointed.

FIRST is excellent for what it was intended to be. Being a scientist or engineer is a great career, its a great way to live. FIRST doesnt need to change that, all it needs to do is point young people in that direction.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I'm afraid I don't understand what your point, outside of the RCU bit, is. I agree wholeheartedly about the RCU, it's redundant and defeats the purpose of FIRST. It even uses the word "chicks". Wonderful.

What exactly are you saying... that a lot of people are in this program for shallow reasons and don't care about "changing the culture"? This is probably true.Your post comes across as naïve to me. Very few people will ever care about "changing the culture", in the context of FIRST or otherwise. Humans are social animals, we are hardwired to group together and follow one another, and great change only comes about through the rhetorical manipulation of the masses by a few skilled demagogues (and often, nutjobs). The rest just "muddle through", for lack of a less biased term.

Distracting yourself with concerns about other's dedication to the cause is unproductive. You can only focus on the present, on the immeadiate impact you can make.

As they say here inside the belway, all politics is local.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Just a word of caution of reviving old threads... Some of these messages were posted almost 2-3 years ago, and may or may not be relavant anymore. The original poster might even have changed his or her mind a long time ago.

So while it is great that you guys are continuing a great discussion, keep in mind that you are continuing it on the present day's context. Let's not dig up old threads and pick on old things. (Especially in a thread where I lost my temper :P)

Let's take the best out of the old discussion and make it a new, fun one!

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Thanks Koko Ed for reviving this great thread.

Like Whitman, the real world is large, and contains multitudes. Most of us who are getting older recall dreams of changing the world, which ran into annoying realities somewhere along the way. The important thing is to keep dreaming.

My own take is that cultural change happens slowly, and is usually hard to see except when looking backward. Looking for the kind of satisfaction that one gets by chopping wood, the dream of cultural change is easily frustrated. But FIRST abounds with opportunity to change lives, one at a time.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

I really have to agree with the thoughts in this thread. I think that the gender stereotyping has taken away from some of the cooperative aspects of companies and associations like this. I also have to say that your thoughts were very well summarized and that this would definitely make a good addition to the library of must-read threads.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Hello everyone! I've always been a big reader of the forums but never joined, why not now?! A lot of excellent posts have been created here and everyone has thoughts that I agree with.

One of the things that I've noticed as a student of FIRST and will continue to emulate as a technology educator is to provide a positive experience for the students regardless of their concentration once they leave the program. The students who later emulate those positive experiences once they graduate turn out to become positive contributions to the culture FIRST hopes to have an influence on. Yes FIRST does hope to influence students to become interested in the areas of science, technology, and engineering but creating gracious professionals has always seemed to be FIRST's underlying goal. Probably one of the best parts about FIRST!

Keep it up, good stuff going on here!

Nate

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

something to keep in mind: you can not change other people.

you can change yourself

you can teach the next generation

you can start your own company and instill your culture and values, and lead by example.

If you want to change the world, YOU have to be the change.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

http://webreprints.djreprints.com/1224920953172.html

For those of you who never read the Barron's editorial from last May with some of Dean's and Woodie's sound bites about FIRST.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

Amen! I couldn't agree with you more. I am inspired when I see a well-built, well-functioning robot on the field. I am inspired when I see a team working frantically in the pits to help another team get their robot in working condition so they can compete. I am inspired because I have a good idea of what those teams have done in the previous months to get to that point. But I often don't know much about teams other than how their robots are doing on the playing field.
Let's encourage teams to post their CA written submissions somewhere at each regional so we can all be inspired! Let's encourage FIRST to allow public viewing of the CA presentations so we can all be inspired (and wow, what a concept, giving a presentation in front of an audience just like you might have to do in real life!)!

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

you know, it use to be that teams could submit their chairmans award entry in a video format

now Im thinking, to get more public awareness, wouldnt it be awesome to see videos, a 3 or 5 minute presentation of what the chairmans award winner has done, right there at the regional? during the ceremony?

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

That's what I'm talking about!
You always here about these teams that have question about what to do and when the teams that excell in this aspect of FIRST show how it's done then they give the blueprint for the younger teams to follow.

Re: How We Could've Changed the Culture But Didn't.
 

This was originally posted on 6-18-03 by Christina (#16)
"....The Robot Chicks Union is very important in FIRST. ...... They are there because it is easier for a girl to join a robotics team when they don't feel so out of place. You can not deny that there are generally less girls on a FIRST team. They're not trying to alienate people but trying to show the minority that it's okay to do something new. The RCU doesn't bring up the new idea that robotics is generally a guy related activity, this is already known. They are there to say it's okay to want to do this if you're a girl. The RCU is there for the girls that are afraid of going into a male oriented club or organization. And there will always be the people that believe girls are inferior to guys when it comes to engineering and robotics and that's also why the RCU is here. The RCU was an incredibly good idea, like a miniature version of SWE..."
The RCU serves a purpose....it is an organization not unlike ASME or NAACP...organizations that was created to help people of similar interests or needs. I am proud to say that I am one of the mentors of the RCU. I am not here to change people or the culture, just to lend support to those who needs it.