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dez250 03-07-2003 15:29

Project Lead The Way!
 
As the name states this thread is about PLTW the Pre-Engineering course for highschool, located out of Clifton Park, N.Y.
The questions i have are:
-whos heard of it?
-who has it in their school?
-what classes have you taken (if any)?
-also what experiance have you gotten from it?
-What would you say to others thinking about taking any of the classes?

Heres the website for PLTW http://www.pltw.org

~Mike

Yan Wang 03-07-2003 15:37

It's offered in our school.

I thought about taking it and then realized that it wasn't a really good use of time.

I mean, first year, they teach you technical drawing on Autocad Inventor... Well, that program isn't really worthy of 1 year to teach (along with some basic lessons in drawing style and technique) especially when you can just grab the robotics' teams copy and learn it.

2nd year is digital electronics and that's something I competed in and knew enough about.

I wes thinking about taking Computer Integrated Manufacturing (CIM) in 11th grade this fall but then I just got a copy of mastercam and have started learning to use it...

I get PLTW is a good course for people with little engineering background and who want to learn the basics. However, for someone who is pursuing a technical engineering field, the course is probably not too useful if you can do robotics instead :) ... Or motivate yourself to do it at home.

ebmonon36 03-07-2003 15:40

We have it at our school. This was our first year in the program. I did not take any of the classes because of scheduleing conflicts. This program changed our electronics classes to digital electronics, our CAD classes used both AutoCAD and Inventor ( i think). Thats all that I can contribute.
Eric

dez250 03-07-2003 16:02

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
It's offered in our school.
I get PLTW is a good course for people with little engineering background and who want to learn the basics. However, for someone who is pursuing a technical engineering field, the course is probably not too useful if you can do robotics instead :) ... Or motivate yourself to do it at home.

This is what saddens me. IT is great that it has spread to 40 states from just 2 schools, but what i dont think is cool is the degree it is different from one school to anotther, i guess also with schools dont always have teachers that can be well prepared to teach some of the classes. I would say i have a good backround in engineering and things but from the staudents that have gone through the course in our school, the brother school to the originating school, the students still use their notes and notebooks from classes like POE and things in their junior and senior year in college for mechanical engineering, so i guess some schoolls dont teach as in depth as others do.

~Mike

Andy Baker 03-07-2003 16:21

Don't let monsiercoffee let you down about PLTW, Dez... it is a great program.

Kokomo HS adopted the program about 3 years ago and it was the first school in Indiana to do so. No, there are over 50 Indiana schools with PLTW. As you know, it is not a dumbed-down alternative to a robotics team, as implied above. It is a foundation of basics for many types of engineering, and students need that. PLTW provides students with courses similar to the "intro to engineering" courses that many colleges have.

For our team, the students in the Inventor class get through their projects pretty quickly, and then they start working on FIRST stuff (heh... the teacher is on the team, and he has read these Forums for 4-5 years now). So even the motivated students can take the course, get ahead, and work on FIRST-team related stuff in their class time.

Heck, if people can take home a master-cam program and learn it on their own, I suppose that they can also take home a Calculus book and memorize it too. It dosen't necessarily mean that they know how to use what they are learning. They should still take the class.

PLTW is one of the best technical, curriculum-based programs that has come along for high schoolers. I have attended many PLTW recruiting sessions and see that teachers are as excited about this program as the students are.

Kudos to Shenendoah HS and others for making this nation-wide program a success.

Andy B.

JVN 03-07-2003 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Baker
Kudos to Shenendoah HS and others for making this nation-wide program a success.

Shenendehowa... :D
I'm a "Shen" alum, so I should probably correct you Andy.

I took the PLTW tech curriculum (at the original school) and it was great. It certainly gives you a taste of engineering, and teaches you some practical skills to help you out as you progress through engineering.

I've worked for 3 summers as a CAD draftsman, due in part to my PLTW experience.

GregTheGreat 03-07-2003 17:14

PLTW is a new thing to Northwest Indiana. Gavit High in Hammond Indiana, have adopted the program. This coming up school year will be the first year for the program in our school system. I received a letter today that I was accepted. Myself and another member of our robotics team were the only present high schoolers that were accepted. PLTW which is a four year program is meant to be a pre-engineering course. Our school in partnership with Purdue University Calumet have raised the millions of dollars to cover the expense of this program. Our school (Gavit) is the first school out of the district that have adopted this program, and have covered the expenses.

What our school has done is take resume's off all incoming freshman and reviewed their records to see who would be most applicable for this type of program. The PLTW program in my mind are for people that are looking to be in the engineering field.

What our school has done is partnership with Purdue University Calumet to offer a advanced curriculum, along with state of the art lab settings. In addition we have had one of our teachers at Gavit go through the training to become a PLTW teacher. Our Gavit teacher along with many professors at Purdue will work together in an in-lighting lab to better benefit the selected students.

What was interesting was the outpouring of people who wanted to become part of this program. The program which was offered only to advanced students. I have met with all of the people involved in our local PLTW program, and it is truly a great addition to any school system.

From what I have talked about with many of the mentors and professors at Purdue Calumet, it appears to be a great program for those looking to further their learning in the field of engineering.

Another great addition to our program is that since it begins before regular school hours, you can get the credit without missing out on any other school credits. We have also worked out in the partnership that PLTW in Hammond will also count as a college credit. This way if you attend college at Purdue you will have many of you're intro classes out of the way.

I would recommend PLTW to every school district that sponsors FIRST teams. The program takes FIRST one step further, right into the classroom.

David Hoff 03-07-2003 18:12

I think this upcoming school year will be the first time PLTW has been offered at Perry Meridian. I will be taking the class along with a few of my teammates.

chellyzee93 03-07-2003 18:13

We just started an engineering charter school in the tech department of my high school this last year. The curriculum was a home brew but things went well. We know what works- and what does not. Our teachers will be attending a training session this summer for the Project Lead the Way. The program will be in effect this school year. I got the chance to look through some of the brochures and saw the video at one of our board meetings. Looks interesting, I am intrigued and looking forward to being a part of it.

Amanda Morrison 03-07-2003 19:28

As Greg said, the School City of Hammond is integrating Project Lead the Way in their curriculum this school year. I believe 50 kids from the entire city were admitted based on previous experience, skills, and interest. Purdue University is working with the school city to help these kids acquire basic skills while still in high school.

My brother, Andrew, and Greg - both members of 71 - have been admitted to this program. My brother is very excited about what he will learn throughout this school year and is eager for the next school year to begin. I think it is very exciting for a kid his age - taking off from school every morning to go to Purdue University, learn about things that you think are fun, and applying that knowledge during the next build season of FIRST. Although I do not take to the technical side of FIRST, it makes me happy to see someone his age being offered this program. I hope many students benefit from PLTW.

SarahB 03-07-2003 22:02

Our school is currently in the process of adopting the PLTW curriculum, starting with my class(class of 2005). I really enjoy the classes so far, but since we’re the guinea pigs we’ve encountered some problems with the teachers adjusting to the curriculum and not quite understanding what they needed to cover and what we already knew from other classes. We’re going through the classes in a slightly weird order though. We did IED in 9th grade, CIM and POE in 10th, then DE for 11th and EDD for 12th. Its not all that different though since we take Physics as sophomores.

And to monsieurcoffee, there’s a LOT more to CIM than MasterCAM. That program is pure evil, we only spent a week or two on it before our teacher decided there were better things to do in class.

kristen 03-07-2003 22:09

Heh, I took the DDP course this year for my fine art credit.. like Yan said above, it was def NOT worth a year.. or even half a year.. I seriously learned nothing in that class that I didn't easily teach myself. And most of the people in my class played games..

I'm taking Digital Electronics next year. I'm, um, not quite sure why... I'm even giving up half a year of lunch to take it :D

dez250 03-07-2003 22:21

i guess its just your teacher yan and Kristen... I have heard only praise from Ithaca but i guess the ddp teacher isn't at par, well all i can say is wait for DE and take the class... I took it and learned allot (even from Abrham Michalins labs) though thats all another story... Keep all your response coming, I'm hoping to have enough responses after some time here, that i will forward to a pltw official and show them the praise and/or the constructive criticism from here...

~Mike

Yan Wang 03-07-2003 22:43

Andy Baker: I stated my experience with the class and also the experience of my many friends who have taken it and asked themselves the question, "wtf did I just do that for?". In no way did I mean to imply (did I?) that the PLTW situation in our high school is what all PLTW courses are like in other schools. However, the curriculum is the same and looking through it, I found that I either knew it or could experiment with it during some free time rather than devoting a year-long course to it. The analogy of taking up a calculus book and memorizing it seems somewhat harsh. One does not become smart by memorizing and I don't learn the PLTW curriculum by reading the huge textbooks which are never finished by the class. In my free time, I will have fun working with electronics, machining, or as I mentioned, looking at how mastercam works and then taking the time to go and do it for myself. Without doing anything, those memorized facts dissipate as fast as the sunshine here in Ithaca :)

Quote:

Andy Baker:
For our team, the students in the Inventor class get through their projects pretty quickly, and then they start working on FIRST stuff (heh... the teacher is on the team, and he has read these Forums for 4-5 years now). So even the motivated students can take the course, get ahead, and work on FIRST-team related stuff in their class time.
^^ In reference to that, that is one point that I tried to make. Many robotics members are in PLTW courses and as you said, they get through the activities quickly and thereby don't pick up anything new from the CLASS itself. They instead go and work on robotics (the teacher is also on team and also ok with it) but that is not the course! So, what I'm trying to say is, the course itself didn't teach them that much as Kristen mentioned: "I seriously learned nothing in that class that I didn't easily teach myself. And most of the people in my class played games.."

My opinion still stands that the course is not a worthwhile pursuit for anyone doing robotics (considering how motivated and dedicated you have to be to work hard for 6 weeks) but may be for some people who have no engineering experience. However, even those people without any experience also seem to find the courses easy. I spend many of my free periods in the tech rooms (to work on robotics) and I note that people are rarely at work, and if they are yelled at enough to actually do some work, they do it quickly. I think PLTW would be a much better course if it required more out of the students. Otherwise, as Kristen mentioned, the students just play games, talk, and listen to music. Now, that may suggest to you that the teachers can't control the class and to a certain extent, I find that true. But even when work is handed out, the people in the course whisper or put on their headphones. The situation of PLTW at our school is as mentioned, and that is what dez250 seems to be asking about. I cannot tell dez250 whether he'll have a wonderful experience at his school with PLTW or whether he'll be bored like us. But in any case, that is my experience and Kristen's (I won't vouch for anyone else's but I can track down more people if you'd like further testimonies of class experiences) and it is not a worthy one.

dez250 03-07-2003 23:19

i want to state one thing before furthering with this thread, that is that i have been through all but on PLTW course, and that is the EDD course which i will be taking next year. What it sounds like is your class(es) are not properly thought, i am not saying its a bad class or a bad teacher or a bad school, but the pltw courses have thought everyone i know who took them allot, even i will go to say that we have had our professional engineers work with the students after school sometimes during robotics with POE problems and they said that they remember stuff like that from after college and in the real world. i may be going out on a long shot here but it sounds like you (yan) ha vent taken any class other then DDP through PLTW.

~Mike

Please i don't want this a bickering thread, as i just want some reply as to how you have all come across PLTW and also what you think of it, positive or negative.

Yan Wang 03-07-2003 23:27

No, in fact, I didn't take any PLTW courses officially after interviewing some of the people who had taken them when I was in 8th grade. I sat in on the DDP course the first year during lunch and sat in on the electronics and also ddp during my free period this year. The course is taught fine, but I don't think it moves fast enough. But that's my opinion. For CIM next year, I've pretty much covered most of the stuff. The previous CIM guy (GregT) will be going off to RIT and not too many people next year will actually know how to use it (though quite a few will be taking the course). So w/e the course may teach, it's not a challenge. I decided to take two AP sciences next year rather than fitting CIM in.

Amanda Morrison 04-07-2003 00:46

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
No, in fact, I didn't take any PLTW courses officially after interviewing some of the people who had taken them when I was in 8th grade.
Quote:

Originally posted by kristen
I seriously learned nothing in that class that I didn't easily teach myself.
I'm happy to see that such advanced students are involved with FIRST. However, many students do not have the advantage of going home and teaching themselves software, and many try to pick up skills that PLTW offers. PLTW was designed to help students interested in that type of career but have previously had little or no chance to learn or tinker around.

I do believe that PLTW wasn't meant to cater to everyone's engineering education, but rather to clue others into this field. While it appears that this program wasn't exactly the type that would help you personally, your comments really make it seem as though the class is a waste of time for everyone. I really think a lot of FIRSTers could benefit, but what you've said almost makes it look bad simply because it was below your skill level and for no other reason.

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
My opinion still stands that the course is not a worthwhile pursuit for anyone doing robotics (considering how motivated and dedicated you have to be to work hard for 6 weeks) but may be for some people who have no engineering experience.
I consider myself a very dedicated and motivated person during the six week build period, and I try to work hard at what I do. Yet rarely do I ever even touch the robot, help plan, or do any machining. Your comment kind of hurts my feelings - as though I shouldn't be involved in this program because of my lack of engineering skills.

I wish you would reconsider that statement - apparently there are more people involved in FIRST than you happen to realize that haven't previously had any kind of experience with actual engineering yet (or maybe they choose to have it that way). I don't know if your class was taught within your high school by high school teachers, etc., or how different it will be from the program here taught by Purdue University. Considering what you've mentioned about your program, including playing games in the classroom and other such activities, it seems as though your program is a gross outcast from the norm. Everything that I've heard or seen about PLTW has been successful, and it sounds as though yours was a failure - a failure to inspire the students by using the curriculum.

dez250 04-07-2003 01:09

like that of amandas post i would like to state that this course is not a program that should be looked at as just another class for joe teacher to come along and teach. PLTW is that of skills of college and it may not be fair for all schools because you may not have college professors teaching some of the classes or as in my case an nuclear engineer. it seems in your some cases the classes may be dumbed down due to a teachers lack of skills in that field. now coffee, i just want to ask if i was to give you a simple 3 throw lamp, could you draw a correct full schematic for that, because auto-cad itself and the DDP course is an introduction to schematics and multi-view and 3d drawings. now you may say PLTW is a waist of your time but as myself going to be a mechanical engineer i think that learning the correct way to measure stress and strain and moments of a bridge and also the basics and equations of thermodynamics may be useful in my future of college and also it gives me a large head start at NO cost (or in some schools a very low cost) of learning college material from a person that is qualified in his field, beyond that of a normal high school or prehigh school teacher , even that of a college professor.
~Mike

just my ranting for now.

Wayne C. 04-07-2003 10:31

any teachers out there?
 
Our school is looking to adopt PLTW in the next year but we simply cannot find a teacher capable of teaching it. Our current tech teacher/leader retired this year. There are simply no candidates out there to fill his place.

If anyone has a lead on a PLTW capable teacher in the central NJ area please let me know.

And for those who have these programs- treasure what you have.

WC

Andy Baker 04-07-2003 11:49

Quote:

Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
My opinion still stands that the course is not a worthwhile pursuit for anyone doing robotics (considering how motivated and dedicated you have to be to work hard for 6 weeks) but may be for some people who have no engineering experience.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. For my experience, I think that it is worthwhile.

This program has spread like wildfire across the nation over the past 3-4 years. This is no mistake. It may not be optimal for all students, but it is an excellent program for many, many students who are interested in engineering and/or on robotics teams.

Andy B.

GregTheGreat 04-07-2003 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Baker
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. For my experience, I think that it is worthwhile.

This program has spread like wildfire across the nation over the past 3-4 years. This is no mistake. It may not be optimal for all students, but it is an excellent program for many, many students who are interested in engineering and/or on robotics teams.

Andy B.

I agree totally. I believe it is an excellent program for students that are interested in some type of engineering degree.

Ashley Weed 04-07-2003 13:50

I can't really speak for the experience of the students who have taken it.. since I come from depths of 'rural Ameirca'. However, some of my fellow teammates come in from a shool in New York State, and they aren't necissarily a significant contribution, however it is noticeable that they tend to grasp engineering concepts a bit better than the students without the classes from PLTW.
For me, I would be more than greatful to have ANY type of technical/technology class even offered to me. The extent that my school offers is a general introduction to Physics applications, and an introductory drafting course. (NOT CAD, drafting.. with paper and a pencil)

link871 04-07-2003 15:47

PLTW
 
Well i've never heard of it. In me school (west islip n.y.) they offer many tech course our newest (starting this year) is called principle of engnieering or POE. POE is going to be the beginners look at all different types of engineering. Which is run by the lead robotics teacher. Our other tech courses consist of Autodesk inventor (CAD) Cisco1,2,3,and 4. Design, Drawing, and production (DDP). There are a whole bunch more but this is all i can think about right now. :cool:

Adam Y. 04-07-2003 15:58

Quote:

POE is going to be the beginners look at all different types of engineering. Which is run by the lead robotics teacher.
Actually that is part of New York states curriculum. My adviser also was trying to get that course. Too bad about the whole budget fiasco. It sounds like it would have been a good course. Im really not sure if my school does this but from what I am reading it really does not matter. My school offers all of the above courses and more.
Lets see:
CAD
DDP
Technical Drawing
Electronics
Communcation Systems
There is a lot more but that is all I can think of.

dez250 04-07-2003 23:06

lol POE is actually a PLTW class, it was started in the early 90's (pretty sure then) at Shen in Clifton Park. And NYS has tried to start a tech cerriculum but really hasnt, they mainly have adopted the PLTW courses and used them cause they started in the capital region of NYS.
~Mike

Katie Reynolds 05-07-2003 10:59

Like Chelly said, our Tesla Engineering Charter School (TECS) will be adopting the PLTW curriculum for the 2003-2004 school year. Even though we will only get the first year of the course, we are still taking it as it seems a worthwhile program. Chelly and I are the student representatives on the TECS board and because of that, we have had a good look at videos, brochures, etc. Everyone involved in TECS, (students, teachers and otherwise) is looking forward to using PLTW! :) We'll let you know how it goes for us after this next school year.

- Katie

Adam Y. 05-07-2003 13:10

Quote:

lol POE is actually a PLTW class, it was started in the early 90's (pretty sure then) at Shen in Clifton Park. And NYS has tried to start a tech cerriculum but really hasnt, they mainly have adopted the PLTW courses and used them cause they started in the capital region of NYS.
Meh I was only going by what my advisor showed me. He showed me a giant book and said it was the state's curriculum. My school probably has a pretty large amount of courses to choose from. Im trying to remeber how many courses we have.

GregT 06-07-2003 13:30

Don't listen to yan. I find his attitude towards teaching him self funny, expecially since he took a java course.

His perception is of a program with a serious lack of teachers and administrative support. One teacher can not (and should not be expected to) teach 5 completely unique courses.

This program is important. There are a large number of people who enter a engineering field thinking it sounds interesting only to find that it's nothing like they expected. They then soon realize that their 5 ap math credits didn't properly prepare them for the college ciriculum they now find themselves taking. This leads to the type of Engineer that has machinists try and hurt him/her.

A very important thing people interested in Engineering need to realize is that you can't learn everything from a textbook. I've seen yan try and take a half inch pass with a large endmill through aluminum. It consisted of:

Force endmill a mm forward.
Wait for smoke to stop.
Spray with oil.
Continue until aluninum is melted to endmill.
Clean endmill with centerpunch and hammer.
Continue.

The point is experience counts. Experience is one of the things that all the PLTW courses give you.

If nothing else, they look great on a college (and job) application and sound very impressive in college essays. Learning to operate a CNC mill is something typically done in the third or fourth year in most college ciriculum, I learned how to operate a CNC mill my thrid year in high school.

I took all 5 courses and found each very useful.

Greg

Oh, yan. Really think you know how to use Inventor? I'll send you a part to draw sometime.

Yan Wang 06-07-2003 17:28

"One teacher can not (and should not be expected to) teach 5 completely unique courses."

Is that in reference to the fact that our teachers can't teach those courses well? Is one example the fact that you have to teach Mr Peters how to use the CNC?

Though the course content and purpose is good, the course is not being taught well at our school. You yourself spend half your time in the course doing robotics. The other half consists of helping the teacher and part of it is also doing the required work (which you know takes very little time). I mean, the class gives you access to tools and material, but how much have you actually learned from the teacher?

At DeWitt Middle School, the tech program there has gotten better and better. They just came back from the National TSA Competition in Florida and picked up the most trophies of the last 4 years: 3 first places and 7 finalists (our year we had 1 first and 5 finalists and we're just the only little middle school in NYS going)... The tech course at the middle school is a very good intro to engineering/technology and it is REQUIRED. Thus, it gives everyone a better idea of various technical fields and what courses they want to take in the future. I found that to be a better intro to engineering/technology and I think it was a much better course than the PLTW ones at OUR school. Anyhoo, you know what I think about PLTW at our school.

Oh yeah, that Java course was very slow, but the teacher is arguably the best in the state at it and it was a good experience and at least I enjoyed it. Plus, you forget my real motive - suck up to her before I have her very hard calc class next year :)

Heh, yeah, that milling incident wasn't for any purpose though :) That was just me and Alex having fun when we were bored... And btw, no aluminum got melted onto the endmill and there was no use of a hammer - just pretty smoke and lots of oil. very fun though :) You should see Nick's aluminum block now... schweet stuff.

Adam Y. 06-07-2003 18:21

Quote:

Learning to operate a CNC mill is something typically done in the third or fourth year in most college curriculum, I learned how to operate a CNC mill my thrid year in high school. This discussion reminds me of something I need to do. I must find the custodian that knows how to operate a CNC mill.
Meh I'll just read the book and build my own mill.:) I almost picked it up yesterday but I ended up getting some other books.
Quote:

"One teacher can not (and should not be expected to) teach 5 completely unique courses."
The one thing that is good about my school is the ample amount of teachers and the good selection of courses. Thank god the budget passed.
Quote:

They then soon realize that their 5 ap math credits didn't properly prepare them for the college ciriculum they now find themselves taking.
I took honors pre-calculus math this year and we used a fairly decent textbook. Almost all of the word problems we did had a real world purpose to them. It was really annoying having a word problem on something that quite a few of us did in another class a few weeks ago. Then again it did help that my math teacher was a former engineer. My physics teacher too but that really did not help since he got a degree in mining engineering.

Ryan Dognaux 06-07-2003 18:56

Project Lead The Way is slowly getting bigger every year in our school. This coming year we'll have an Inventor course offered, and I'm sure more courses are coming in the future. PLTW is in no way "worthless". Even if your school's program may not be up to your standards, I guarantee at least a few people will benefit from it.

Thumbs up to PLTW :)

dez250 07-07-2003 01:54

Sample Principles Of Engineering Homework Problem from PLTW Class
 
OK well since I'm bored now i pulled my P.O.E. notebook out from this past school year and got out one of the homework sheets we have, this one being on thermodynamics. The following was the second of 8 questions, which get much harder as they go on, this is a simple single equations question, which my brother just went through in his junior year of college for mechanical engineering at Clarkson University in the class, Fundamentals of heat and mass transfer. The problem is copied as follows:

2.) A wall is made of an outer brick (R=0.3ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F/BTU), a piece of plywood (R=1), 6” of insulation (R=25), an air gap (R=4), and drywall (R=0.5).
Calculate the coefficient of thermal conductivity.

now i am wondering if anyone that says that P.L.T.W. is not worth the time, can answer that question on their own without looking to the web for help.

~Mike

P.S.--> Also this problem is expected to be done in a time frame of 3-5 minuets at max.

Stefan 07-07-2003 11:21

Our county is supposed to start that up next year at one of our HS's... though not mine.

dez250 07-07-2003 14:39

its been great hearing all your comments, keep them coming!
~Mike

Adam Y. 07-07-2003 15:21

Quote:

2.) A wall is made of an outer brick (R=0.3ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F/BTU), a piece of plywood (R=1), 6” of insulation (R=25), an air gap (R=4), and drywall (R=0.5).
It really doesn't seem that hard. I just need to be taught how to do it.:D Anyway, most of my physics information I learned from books long before my physics teacher started teaching it. I started annoying my friends when he would start teaching a formula and oddly enough I just happened to bring that book to read that day.

dez250 07-07-2003 15:25

that is probablly one of the simpelest questions we got for a homework, if im feeling up to it, maybe in a little while ill put the equation and answer to Q.2 and question 3 which uses that answer to find something else...
~Mike

P.S.~Resistivity is = to 1/Conductivity LOL

Adam Y. 07-07-2003 15:30

Quote:

P.S.~Resistivity is = to 1/Conductivity LOL
Hmmm.... I knew that for electronics and electricity. I didn't know it worked in other ways. It makes sense though.:) My best guess is to add all the r numbers up and then invert it.

dez250 07-07-2003 16:42

good job adam thats how that question would be done... i will add my work, with answer to Q2 later along with q3 which will show how much you do learn from just one day in POE.

~Mike

Adam Y. 07-07-2003 17:08

Quote:

good job adam thats how that question would be done... i will add my work, with answer to Q2 later along with q3 which will show how much you do learn from just one day in POE.
Hmm.. I really did not know that conductivity and resistivity were that similar for materials and electronics. POE would be a cool course. I hope my advisor gets it into my school.:)

ChrisH 07-07-2003 19:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Adam Y.
Hmm.. I really did not know that conductivity and resistivity were that similar for materials and electronics.
There are many times that mathematical equations used in one area of engineering turn out to represent problems in another area equally well. You just have to change the units. This is particulalry true of flows, whether they be flows of electrons, water or energy.

dez250 07-07-2003 21:58

Q2 answewr with Q3
 
Here is the work and answer for Question 2, along followed by Q3.

Q2 Answer:
R=Coefficient of Resistivity
U=Coefficient of Conductivity
R=1/U
R(total)=R1+R2+R3....
R(total)=(0.3ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F/BTU)+1+25+4+0.5
R(total)=30.8ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F/BTU
U(total)=1/30.8ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F/BTU
U(total)=.032 BTU/ ft[^2]*hr*[degree]F

Question #3
3.) Use the answer to problem 2 to find the heat load on an air conditioner if a house is built of walls like these. The house is 20 feet by 40 feet with 8 foot tall walls, and you may consider the roof has the same construction as the walls (for the purpose of making this problem simpler). Neglect any windows and doors.


That question is a 2 part problem, found everyday while trying to find the load on an air conditioner. This type of problem was taught in class over a 3 day span, after learning about thermal conductivity.
~Mike

Adam Y. 07-07-2003 22:14

Quote:

There are many times that mathematical equations used in one area of engineering turn out to represent problems in another area equally well. You just have to change the units. This is particulalry true of flows, whether they be flows of electrons, water or energy.
Thanks. You learn something everyday.:) My physics teacher told me about this also. You can use fluid dynamic equations and use in air problems. You just change the constants.

dez250 10-07-2003 13:36

OK lets put this back on track, anyone who has heard of or has interacted with the Project Lead The Way pre-engineering program for high school, please answer the following questions:
The questions i have are:
-who's heard of it?
-who has it in their school?
-what classes have you taken (if any)?
-also what experience have you gotten from it?
-What would you say to others thinking about taking any of the classes?


Anyone can chime in if they want to...

~Mike
Project Lead The Way Homepage

Matt Attallah 10-07-2003 20:02

Oops :yikes:

Ment for a nother topic...

Musta been the late night time that threw me off :D

Yan Wang 10-07-2003 20:29

Matt, I think you wanted to reply to another topic...

cmaccoy 09-03-2004 22:32

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahB
Our school is currently in the process of adopting the PLTW curriculum, starting with my class(class of 2005). I really enjoy the classes so far, but since we’re the guinea pigs we’ve encountered some problems with the teachers adjusting to the curriculum and not quite understanding what they needed to cover and what we already knew from other classes. We’re going through the classes in a slightly weird order though. We did IED in 9th grade, CIM and POE in 10th, then DE for 11th and EDD for 12th. Its not all that different though since we take Physics as sophomores.

And to monsieurcoffee, there’s a LOT more to CIM than MasterCAM. That program is pure evil, we only spent a week or two on it before our teacher decided there were better things to do in class.

MasterCam is defanatly NOT evil! i'm not trying to be mean but once you've worked with it for a year or so it is just as easy as well...typing up a post on this sight. i'm not trying to be mean but once you really understand it, its as easy as...well..posting on this sight. i happen to like the software but you can have your own opinion. And if you ever have another chance to learn MasterCam i'd take it because it really is a good and fun program.

Tom Bottiglieri 09-03-2004 22:36

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
our school has had PLTW for 5 years. Im in DE now, and both years have been great. Plus, i get shiny RIT credit :)

Sscamatt 09-03-2004 22:57

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Yes, PLTW is awesome...I just got my report card in the mail from RIT...4 college credits that are transferable in freshman year of hs sounds good to me :)

UCGL_Guy 22-06-2004 15:44

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Question for this thread - We (476) are looking at proposing the integration of FIRST into a new PLTW group being set up in our VO Tech system here in Oklahoma. We are looking for ideas of what has worked and how this is done.
And also how well do the two integrate together.
Any information is appreciated.
email rather than posting if you prefer.
Ken

Tom Bottiglieri 22-06-2004 16:41

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UCGL_Guy
Question for this thread - We (476) are looking at proposing the integration of FIRST into a new PLTW group being set up in our VO Tech system here in Oklahoma. We are looking for ideas of what has worked and how this is done.
And also how well do the two integrate together.
Any information is appreciated.
email rather than posting if you prefer.
Ken

Well PLTW and FIRST are very similar programs in that they both teach high school kids about engineering and try to get them to see whether they are interested in engineering or not. Our school does not combine FIRST and PLTW, but it seems like it could be every beneficial to both sides. In either program there may be students who are not interested in the other program.. such as students who are interested in engineering but not in robots, or interested in a robot team but not engineering, so you have to keep the progream exciting for them also and not engulf it with FIRST material.

But ya.. a few things i thought of that you can do are to
1) integrate FIRST material into the regular class schedule. in IED for example, instead of modeling, assembling, and driving a model train.. try a gearbox.
2) in the programable logic array section of DE, get into PIC's and how they work, and how to program them. If you do not know, the RC in the FIRST kit uses a PIC to run the user program and control the robot. Test the programs on the actual RC. Also, you can use the RC for a variety of projects the kids are working on.
3) CNC stuff for the robot in the CIM class.
4) Parallel path things that are being worked on in both programs.

just basic stuff like that.

For anyone whos PLTW program has been around for 4 years and has had seniors who have been through the whole program and have made their full year senior projects, you know that FIRST is very like pltw. The teachers always tell us how the senior project is very beneficial becuase you go through the whole design process.. from idea concepts to research to prototyping to final product. FIRST does the same thing. I think FIRST is a much better experience tho. But both of them together is great. Oh well i'll stop rambling.

Hiteak 26-03-2006 18:15

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
My school does fallow the PLTW program, but some of the teachers dont explain things very well. It took about 2 weeks for my teacher to explain forces in POE, but my math teacher 20 minutes. FIRST explained everything that we did. It was alot easier to fallow everything in FIRST.

colin340 26-03-2006 21:19

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
in my opinion pltw is great but may of the softwares so hard to use they often times put my computer life in danger

Starke 26-03-2006 21:24

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colin340
in my opinion pltw is great but may of the softwares so hard to use they often times put my computer life in danger

its good to here from you giggles :yikes: . i came from churchville which has project lead the way. i thought it was a great experience and is continuing to help me in college for my degree. what a great head start for some of the courses in college.

Jon Jack 26-03-2006 23:18

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Our school (High Tech High - San Diego) uses the PTLW curriculum. They offer POE for Juniors and EDD (Engineering Design and Development) for Seniors. Every student at our school must take a semester of POE in order to graduate.

As for the question of how to integrate FIRST and PLTW:

Every Senior member of Team 1538 that takes EDD (which at our school is a two-hour long class after lunch) works on FIRST or something that can be FIRST related.

During the pre-season students work on prototyping parts and up keeping tools and machinery. For example, one student developed a custom 2-Speed Transmission and gear box.

During the build season students work on designing and building our robot. Everything on our robot this year is custom except for the motors and wheels and it was all designed, machined/fabricated and built by students.

During the post-season students work on designing and prototyping parts and building the field for Battle at the Border.

234smidget 29-03-2006 12:30

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
[quote=dez250]As the name states this thread is about PLTW the Pre-Engineering course for highschool, located out of Clifton Park, N.Y.
The questions i have are:
-whos heard of it?
-who has it in their school?
-what classes have you taken (if any)?
-also what experiance have you gotten from it?
-What would you say to others thinking about taking any of the classes?

Heres the website for PLTW http://www.pltw.org

~Mike[/QUOT

we have pltw at my high school(perry meridian high school) i have taken the first course but i am going to take courses next year too it has helped me alot and it does help in robotics because some of the team members has no experience with it so we who have taken the class can help also during robotic season at night when i have freetime i mess around with autodesk and it helps me work faster or understand better the next day when i have the class
i recommend this course especiall for future enigineers my teacher says college students are using the same software now so if you have this class now if will definitally help you when you get to college

AndyB 29-03-2006 15:46

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dez250
As the name states this thread is about PLTW the Pre-Engineering course for highschool, located out of Clifton Park, N.Y.
The questions i have are:
-whos heard of it?
-who has it in their school?
-what classes have you taken (if any)?
-also what experiance have you gotten from it?
-What would you say to others thinking about taking any of the classes?

Heres the website for PLTW http://www.pltw.org

~Mike

-Introduction to Engineering and Design
-Principals of Engineering
-Was going to take Computer Integrated Manufacturing but they canceled it on us
-3D Modeling (dont remember if that was PLTW)
-Technical Drafting

From taking these classes (especially IED), i learned the Autodesk Inventor program and was able to complete an entry for this year's competition. From 3D modeling, i learned the 3D aspect of cad and learned some more visual thing that inventor offers. POE is an awesome class from what i hear (im taking it next year). They have made Rube Goldberg devices, mousetrap cars, and lots of cool interesting things. Technical Drafting really introduced me into drafting and taught me AutoCAD.

1493kd 29-03-2006 19:31

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
I teach PLTW DDP and next year will be teaching Civil Eng. And Arch class...

I love teaching DDP, it is a great class and can give you valueable experience.. The point of the class is not to train you on a CAD program.. The point is to train you mind to problem solve, brainstorm, and use you imagination. (think outside the box)

Like any class the course can depend on how good a job the teacher does at inspiring the students.

Also
Many of my students did not select the course and were just placed in the class, but now I have a number of students really interested in a tech ed. and want to persue further options. If they never had the chance then who knows what they would have ended up doing.

I also have students that arnt your typical PLTW students. Students with 3rd and 4th grade reading levels who excel with CAD and have now found something that they can do which puts them on a level with their peers.

Joohoo 15-04-2006 20:51

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
It is offered in my school. I've taken DDP, and currently POE. It is pretty fun, the only thing that i would like to see better is more hands on in POE. Although it may just be the fact that the Tech Dept. only has a budget of $5 per class :p .
I can see were DDP/IED can be a little boring for those who already know Autodesk, sketching and designing. Thats why it is designed to be a four year course and to start as a freshman.

Hiteak 15-04-2006 22:13

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Took DDP as freshman ( and was 1 of 3 to get college credit for it).
Taking POE and Digital Electronics now
Signed up for CIM next year.
I learned alot about drafting and elctronics in my DDP class and Digital class. Some of that really help our team this year because I was the major 3D drafting person on the team.
I would recommend everyone who has the chance to take it because it saves alot of money from college.

Steve S. 17-04-2006 15:29

Re: Project Lead The Way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dez250
OK lets put this back on track, anyone who has heard of or has interacted with the Project Lead The Way pre-engineering program for high school, please answer the following questions:
The questions i have are:
-who's heard of it?
-who has it in their school?
-what classes have you taken (if any)?
-also what experience have you gotten from it?
-What would you say to others thinking about taking any of the classes?


Anyone can chime in if they want to...

~Mike
Project Lead The Way Homepage

We have PLTW in our district. Ive taken DDT and taking CIMS this year. Overall its been great, although this year we haven't been able to use our mill because something is up with our air lines :mad:
Hopefully POE and Digital in senior year b/c of a full sch. next year

I would recommend getting into the PLTW Courses, its a great experience for the most part, although Ive heard different from people in other areas.......but anyways, definitely check into it.

And for those that dont have it, go to the tech dept and administration at your school and see what can be done to get involved....


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