FIRST vs Battlebots- which has had the greater impact on society?
 

This poll is not supposed to be a flame war between FIRST and Battlebots nor a place to take shots at either.

But to be frank, I keep seeing Battlebots posted as some sort of reviled enemy on these boards and it seems to me that both organizations have a lot of merit.

The original goal of FIRST was to get young people inspired to pursue futures in technology. But it seems to me wherever I go people ask if our robot is a Battlebot.

In your opinion which organization HAS had the greater impact on getting young people interested in robots?

Without negative comments maybe you might want to discuss why.

I think that they are both important. Battlebots has the flash and pizazz that interests the youth. It gets their creative juices flowing. FIRST takes those juices and places some boundaries. These boundaries force us to create in a real-world mind-set, but at a higher innovative and creativity level. The program leaves it participants with the same technological *high*, but with more inspiration and important values needed in our current chaotic state. Are both important? Most certainly, although I must admit that I have a certain bias because of the absence of education in engineering and business ethics I have found in Battlebots.*FIRST-aholic ;) *They are both important for getting our youth interesting in science and technology, a field high in demand for our future generations.

I think both have there ups on helping each other. Battlebots is a more public thing, dont get me wrong FIRST has its publicity but Battlebots gets more. When a young person sees battlebots and wants to get apart of it and then researches it and finds you either got have alot of money like your millionare (like alot of people on battelbots) or you gotta have a sponsor. Trying to find a sponsor for basicall one person is kinda hard. Trust me i was big into battlebots and looked on getting involved. Then from there FIRST takes the role and helps these kids who are interested in robots and puts that to use. FIRST does not want violence between the robots which is waht i like about FIRST. I mean anyone can put on a saw or a hammer and have a smashing robot, but FIRST takes it to the next level with adding a objective to this mission. Anyone can go out and just go hit things and smash things but it takes good minds to come up with a robot to stack boxes, pick up balls, etc etc.

Battlebots. It impacts society more because more people KNOW about it, and it can get them interested in technology. I mean... it's so commercialized, who DOESN'T know about battlebots? I think that FIRST is more beneficial to society, though.

It's all about advertising :p

If you ask people now what FIRST Robotics is, you'll be able to get a response from much more people than you would have 2 years ago. Newspaper, magazine, and tv coverage have been increasing each year for FIRST and now with Battlebots not on air anymore, FIRST will begin to impact much more into society. If you look at it along the lines of 'which competition has changed peoples lives the most' FIRST beats out Battlebots by a long shot. I think thats what leaving an impact is, not just getting someone excited about making a robot to destroy other robots.

Battlebots has had the greater impact for the mere fact that it is broadcast on comedy central and contains a great deal of robot violence :)

FIRST has nowhere near that amount of publicity.

Actually you probably could build a robot for a couple hundred dollars if you are clever enough. Also now there are weight classes that can be built very cheaply.
Easier said than done. Not to mention saws are really poor weapons.
Yeah but that actually helped spur on its popularity. Now there are competitions all over the country now.

As engineers we should aspire to create, not destroy. If this is the case, why would we want to create machines with the sole purpose to destroy?

This is my biggest complaint about Battlebots, and my biggest appreciation of FIRST. While Battlebots’ main focus is on the gladiator type games of destruction and mayhem, FIRST brings a more civilized excitement through games fashioned after today’s competitive sports.

As has been said, Battlebots, (and it's offspring: Robot Wars, Robotica, etc.) have had an impact on the "Man and Machine" and the "Glory of Mechanics" aspect of robotics.

Battlebots, in particular, had a positive and negative impact in society.
Postive: Ask anyone on the street about the coolest robot they have ever seen, and chances are they'll describe some battle bot. This has been positive because it shows that people can have an interest in something other than the NFL, NBA, etc. Negative: Ask anyone on the street if they could build a robot what would it do? They would probably, again, describe some type of battle bot. This is negative because it shows robotics harnessing the destructive nature of humans.

FIRST has also had a positive and negative effect on society.
Positive: Almost everyone who has gone through the program and their close friends have learned a greater respect for mechanics, even if they don't want to be an engineer or machinist.
Negative: Team politics have ruined the program and the intended goal of FIRST for many students. Showing someone that no matter how hard they work, it may be all for nothing, isn't a good message. (Now, I don't mean losing at competition, so don't reply as if I were, I mean teams falling apart, mentors not caring, monetary situations, etc.) Yes, it is reality, but no, it's not always going to be that way.

Summary:
Battlebots and FIRST has provided society with a new thought toy. Even if someone wants to design a battle bot, they still want to design a machine. If someone isn't sure where they are going in life, they can find their place in the vast reach of FIRST. Personal attitudes and indifferences towards new things will show which will have a greater future impact. I think it's too early to tell (even though FIRST has been around for over 10 years). Wait until this generation has kids and see what they do. That's when we'll know the impact.

I was just trying to make a point, but you know the really good robots have some pretty deep pockets :)

You are asking two different questions in your post and in your poll.

FIRST, by far, has had the greatest impact on society as a whole. Battlebots does not have any depth - it is a program designed to design, build, and create a mechanical toy that destroys other things. However, Battlebots has done more to spark public interest (outside of high schools, aka). Pick a random person off the street and ask them what FIRST is, and most likely they will not know. Ask them if they've ever heard of Battlebots, and you'll probably get a yes.

Battlebots is a TV show designed for those who like to sit around and watch things... and FIRST is a program designed for those who like to make those things happen.

battlebots, because anyone anywhere (almost) knows what it is . . . but almost nobody who isn't involved in FIRST knows what it is.

well even if they dont know what FIRST is you can relate it by saying. Do you know who dean kamen is inventor of the segway. That ish ow you can get someone interested in FIRST. That is how i get sponsorthip for are team is telling them dean kamens accomplishments

Since i dont have cable - FIRST

My opinion is that FIRST has had a greater impact.

When I watch Battlebots I don't appreciate the technology and effort that went into building them, not nearly as much as I do when I see robots in FIRST. I think the only impact that Battlebots has had is to increase the awareness about building robots. This publicity makes people more receptive to other organizations such as FIRST, I think, because it gives them something to compare and contrast it to. But I think the spectators of FIRST truly appreciate the engineering that went into the robots, not simply the entertainment that comes with Battlebots. I don't view Battlebots as a negative thing, however, because it was a step, a step toward making robot competitions a more common activity. I don't think it has changed society though, whereas FIRST has impacted many lives.

Now Or Later?
 

I think that BattleBots is having the biggest current impact. It is showing large numbers of people that there is something entertaining out there other than sports and reality shows that real people can participate in. But as FIRSTers continue to permeate the professional world, the effect it will have on our society and culture, both in terms of the advancement of the ideals that FIRST represents, and in the development of technological fields, the impact of FIRST will certainly eclipse that of BattleBots and related shows. Then again, perhaps such competitions will take a new direction as the impact of FIRST takes hold, and FIRSTers can continue their passion for competitive engineering in such an arena.

What you don't know about will not impact you. Out of 250 million people in the United States, im guessing 15,000 people participate in FIRST (That is a very generous number...its probably a lot less). .00006% of the United States participates. Besides the 15,000 how many people know what FIRST is when they see an article in the Newspaper, heard on the radio, or seen on TV? Not many. FIRST has failed repeatedly in the publicity department. Im not even going to get into Canada and Brasil

*ESPN was probably their best bet, but they couldn't keep them interested, so instead they show the World Series of Poker, NFL Films several times a day and other things.

*FIRST Water...where is this so called FIRST water that was supposed to hit the stores? Its been over a year since it was debuted, yet the only people I know that have it, saved it from the 2002 championships, or got it at the FIRST headquarters.

*Amazon.com.... Jeff Bezos talked about publicizing FIRST through his company, but instead the only thing Ive seen on it, is the "Buy your Segway from Amazon.com **Exclusive**" on the amazon.com banner. Last time I checked, the Segway isn't FIRST.

They make every attempt to try to find someone to publicize them, but have failed. Until FIRST can find someone that will make FIRST a household name, its more of just a private organizations that several hundred high schools.

On the other hand, Battlebots, Junkyard Wars, etc get put on the air left and right and they grow in population like wildfire because they have the TV publicity. It really doesnt matter how good the show is. Heck I could go off, write a show idea off the top of my head, get it on a major TV network and it would get out to the public more than FIRST would.

There is nothing wrong with FIRST and it is a great program. I should know, I've done it for 4 years, but I am very unhappy about how they promise year after year that they are going to get all this publicity but have nothing to show for it.


The first thing they need to do is get this on TV. Live, no 3 month tape delay crap or at 2:30 in the morning.

Definately Battlebots. Everybody knows about it, and it's probably inspired some people to build robots...or at least think about it. I mean, if you had never heard of FIRST, but saw Battlebots, wouldn't you think "I could do that!"?

And I really don't understand why so many FIRST people hate Battlebots. I mean, you still build a robot, and even though Dean says it's only icing, it's still the main part of it. Of course, FIRST and Battlebots are still pretty different.

Here we go again ... you know I really do love how ignorant some people can be.... How can you judge something only based off what you see??? You know some people can look at US FIRST and say to them selves "It looks so boring there is no point to it" and for Battle Bots "All they do is fight each other, get over it". Yes, how many of you on this board have done both??? I work for Battle Bots and build them, and I also participate in US FIRST with team 1077. Both are great learning experiences!!!! FIRST introduced me to everything and Battle Bots helped me devolved my skills even more! If it was not for working on my Battle Bot with my team, I would not have been as useful in FIRST.I owe a lot of my knowledge that I know to the time that I have spent working on FIRST and Battle Bots. They both have their own impacts on society. They are both very different and yet very alike, the fundamentals are still the same, you have to know your Math, Science, Communication and everything... Have any of you taken a minute to stop and look at the BBIQ Curriculum written by Mike Bastoni?? its amazing!! They both have their own impact in our world, just different ways of showing it...... When you do both you will get what I mean, but don't pass judgment when you have not tired something. Battle Bots is WAY more then what you just see on TV. and FIRST is a lot more then just the competitions... its those 6 weeks that pay off in the end..... Sorry if I sounded like I was going off in a tangent......


btw: Battle Bots it not gone....thats all I will say for now!!

In my DDP class this year, everyone saw the robot and would be like "oh, like battlebots??" When people see a robot being built, and instantly think of battlebots, then society is SERIOUSLY impacted.

Yea, then those people would go ahead and be like "you should make the wheels have spikes on them or like, flip the other robots, explode them, etc."

FIRST impacts the people that it will benefit the most overall. I think that's what is most important.

If you figure 25 people per team times 800 teams, you have 20,000 people directly involved in FIRST this year.

Since FIRST has been going for 12 years, (optimistically) you are probably talking 150,000 to 200,000 people who have been involved with FIRST since its inception.

If each of these people have talked to 10 people about FIRST (and I know that they have), you are looking at 2.2 million people who have either been directly affected (participant) or indirectly affected (told by a FIRST-er).

This is approaching 1% of the population after 12 years.

Within the engineering community or the higher education community, these numbers are -alot- higher. For instance, ASME publicizes FIRST at least 3 times a year through Mechanical Engineering magazine or Mechanical Engineering news (a flyer that comes with ME mag). I think you would be hard pressed to find a ME who has not heard about FIRST. Among MEs and academics, you may be talking another 1 million who have had repetitive contact with FIRST.

If you include NASA, you may get another 100,000.

Add all of this up and you are approaching 2% of the population who have either had direct or once removed, repetitive contact.

Since FIRST is doubling roughly every three years, in about 6-10 years, FIRST will have affected about 10% of the population.

FIRST has enough momentum that it is not likely to disappear in the forseeable future.

I don't know enough about Battlebots or Robot Wars to quote similar numbers.

One key question is "Does television exposure have substantial impact on society?"

I don't think that the portrayal of participants in Battlebots or Robot Wars enhances the world of engineering that much. The television portrayal of the participants is more as drivers or builders than it is as engineers.

In that respect, the television impact of BB is similar to the television impact of Nascar. It will inspire some people to pursue engineering, but not alot.

The main impact of BB is similar to FIRST, which is the "grass roots" participant impact. The numbers and outcomes are probably similar to FIRST's and complement FIRST (and vice versa).

As far as television inspiring people to pursue engineering, I suspect that Star Trek has had a greater impact than any of the Robot Sports ever will (unless they refocus on the engineers in the pits and during build).

2000 real robots that has competed in any type of robot combat at one time or another. That number also I would suspect is pretty outdated since the webmaster in charge of the database said he has not had time to update it. Over 20 events just in the United States.
Meh your not looking hard enough. Nuts and Volts has been including some articles on battlebots in the past few monthes. Robot Rivals features two Battlebot builders also. A technical magazine is coming out maybe.

Since its inception, FIRST has allowed hundreds of thousands of students to directly participate in engineering.

Since its inception, Battlebots has allowed millions of students to watch engineering.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Battlebots can get people interested, FIRST gets them involved. There's a need for both.

How're we measuring impact? Is it the impact of seeing the robots and thinking, "hey, cool," or is the impact that has students going off to college to become practicing engineers?

There are many levels of impact and I don't know that it'd be fair to say that one or the other has been more succesful. Though, with that said, I do believe that FIRST offers more opportunity and challenge.

Well you guys also have to take into consideration that one competition was meant to support and foster engineering and the other competition was just for fun. What else would expect from a bunch of adult geeks to do for fun? Christian S. Carlberg

I think that Battlebots actually impacts society more, b/c people see it more. I think that if we can get more people to get interested in the competieve nature of FIRST and not the demolistic (that's probably not a word) nature of Battlebots, then we will be on the right side of the fence.

Thats a bit over optimistic...FIRST didnt start having larger growth till 2000 on. They didnt break 200 teams until 1998.


They might have been mentioned, but it doesn't mean they know anything else about it or remember anything, and even if your number was accurate that is still under 1%, which means basically nothing.



I spoke to NASA people in Texas, and quite a bit of the ones I spoke to a Johnson Space Center had no idea what I was talking about.

It won't dissapear, but at the current rate it isn't going to make much of an impact either.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, a lot of America revolves around television. Quite a few products that people purchase are through TV advertisements during TV shows, sporting events, or other things.

BattleBots
 

I have participated in US FIRST since 1997 and am the Education Director for BattleBots IQ. I think that people's opinions are sometimes based on lack of information and for the record, I think BOTH BattleBots IQ and FIRST have a lot to offer students. They are two different kinds of engineering exercises that are based on real world experiences.
BattleBots IQ could be compared to the NASA engineers who designed and built the Mars Rovers. They have a multitude of choices to design and build their machines. They have to do a lot of research to find the right components to put into their machines. BattleBots IQ builders have to do the same kind of research. (A rule of BattleBots IQ is that the students have to design and build their robots, they may have mentors but the main work has to be done by the students)
FIRST can be compared to the Apollo 13 situation. They had only a limited amount of materials to work with to find a solution. given their limited options they had to find answers in a short amount of time and with only what they had on board. Both challenges are exciting and rewarding.

Two different kinds of challenges, two ways of experiencing engineering. Both BattleBots IQ and FIRST challenge young people to design and create machines to play a game. Like ice cream flavors high school robotics depends on personal likes and dislikes. Both BattleBots IQ and FIRST empower students, encourage them to reach beyond what they think they can do and also inspire them to move ahead to become our nations future leaders.

Teachers who have BattleBots IQ classes in their schools have reported that they have the highest attendance rates in their schools! The curriculum deals not only with how to build robots but also SCANS skills ( the skills students will need to become productive adults), safety - a lot of attention and integrity goes into that one! as well as communication skills and budgeting.

A final word, BattleBots IQ has a task oriented Table Top Competition that is not fighting robots. There are many ways to get the attention of kids and get them excited about math, science and engineering - BattleBots and FIRST are doing a great job!

Good luck to all students who are choosing to participate in either or both of these competitions!

I don't think BattleBots has had any impact at all. People talk about battlebots like it's a hockey game, or a football game. "did you see that one team? they really beat the $@#$@#$@#$@# out of the other one"

when people talk about FIRST, it's alot more than just that. they talk about the robots, they talk about the alliances, they talk about the teams behind it. I can imagine people being passionate about battlebots, but it's hard to attach yourself to something that's gonna get blown up next match. in FIRST you have something to relate to, because (hopefully) your robot doesn't catch fire and you get it back when you're done. you have entire teams, hell, the entire school, rooting for 4 kids down on the field, as opposed to a bunch of people on TV going "oooooh... that's GOTTA hurt."

i think it's the intent. FIRST actually wants to change society. battlebots just caters to what people want. death and destruction.

I agree with what you said to some extent, people in general, have that view. Those aren't really the people that matter though, in that group of sports addicts there are those people who see it and think "Wow, that was great strategy using an extension for your lifting arm to raise his skirt into his KE weapon.", atleast that's how I think. Then there are also those young kids interested in robotics who have much easier access to it through a television and can be inspired by watching it. I went to the Miami Museum of Science yesterday to drop some stuff off for an exhibit they have now and I dropped by to view their Battlebots exhibit which had some team Loki robots at it. There was a little kid viewing the exhibit and he turned to me and said "Don't these robots look familiar? They're the ones from TV!". You can't argue the impact that battlebots has had on society. Both FIRST and Battlebots have had a great impact on society. I think that both programs supplement themselves. What I really do hate though is the bias view on battlebots by those who wont even give it a chance. Not everything is the way it's perceived on television - you all should know this by now. Experience something first hand and then please by all means talk about it, but until then, keep your bias views to yourself :)

Quote:

when people talk about FIRST, it's alot more than just that. they talk about the robots, they talk about the alliances, they talk about the teams behind it. I can imagine people being passionate about battlebots, but it's hard to attach yourself to something that's gonna get blown up next match. in FIRST you have something to relate to, because (hopefully) your robot doesn't catch fire and you get it back when you're done. you have entire teams, hell, the entire school, rooting for 4 kids down on the field, as opposed to a bunch of people on TV going "oooooh... that's GOTTA hurt."

It's funny you say that, because it only perpetuates the fact that you haven't experienced Battlebots at all. If you have ever gone to any of the competitions you would know, there is a feeling of a community - just like there is at the FIRST pits. Robots dont come home in pieces, they may have huge dents in them, but beyond that the damage usually isn't that bad. The times that the damage is that bad, the other team asks to be finished off. The difference between the two competitions is that, Battlebots is a single elimination competition. You get beat, you have six months to fix and prepare your robot for the next competition. You don't have to make a new one every year. That's not the case in battlebots. If you want to talk about the competition aspect, sure. Lets do that - you have a team cheering for their team on a field. The same goes with battlebots, the viewers ARE the builders, cheering on their robots and everyone else's robot.

Quote:

i think it's the intent. FIRST actually wants to change society. battlebots just caters to what people want. death and destruction.

Battlebots caters to those people who are too old to compete in FIRST and still want to compete in some robotic event. It also caters to those people who can't afford a $5000 registration fee to build a robot that will only compete in one event for one year. There are many people who see Battlebots as their place to test their engineering abilities in a competition. In addition, some battlebot builders and former FIRST competitors helped write the IQ curriculum and have also started summer camps to increase the interest in robotics. That's all that matters, isn't it? Getting young minds inspired so that they one day become engineers and help to improve our society. It doesn't matter how it happens - I could care less. They could be inspired by watching NASCAR races on TV, the point is they were inspired and because of that decided to choose engineering as their field of study. I think that both FIRST and Battlebots are doing a great job of that.

This is easy... More people are interested in Battlebots but that is not the point in this thread... To me FIRST easily has a greater impact on society...

what are you talking about????????????
 

" But Battlebots is a money maker point and said thats it!"


and FIRST IS NOT?????? Have you looked into how much FIRST is charging just for registration, Regional and then Nationals... and then they get a kick back on the hotels???? Not very cheap!!! at all!!!!ya Battle Bots is on TV , they do need to bring some money in!! Registration for the even is only 100 bucks.... When in FIRST......well..you can see the difference.In Battle Bots alot of money also goes into the whole competition! !!!! and I know for BBIQ (1.0 and 2.0) Trey and Greg paid for the WHOLE THING out of their own pockets without getting a cent back..... Battle Bots is not our for money just because they are on TV, thats just absurd !!!!


" There isn't a learning factor much in it."

Try to keep a 50 pound mass spinning 1200 RPMS+ at Equilibrium, when you are going 12 mph+, let alone building the thing. Taking into account that if you make one wrong measurement while cutting or welding your shell the whole thing is down the drain due to the fact that it is no longer going to be balanced and you just wasted all your time. Or what hight would be the most effective, how low your center of gravity should be, your moment of inertia and the whole 9 yards....... and that's just some things with a spinner... In Battle Bots there are so many other complex robots!! You need to know the force, amount of torque and so forth.

Mike you made yourself sound really dumb! There is a learning factor involved! When you try Battle Bots, then you can talk!!

Heheheh If only it was true. Most competitions make little to no money. From what I have read they usually end up in the red or barely make it in the black. The only reason Battlebots went on television is that you really cannot run a company or competition without any money.

Re: what are you talking about????????????
 

I would highly recommend that you do a little homework before making such statements. FIRST does not get kick-backs from the hotels that support the regional and championship competitions. I defy you to produce any documentation or evidence that they do. To state that they do is incorrect, ill-informed, and insulting. Given that kick-backs are unethical and usually illegal, your statements also constitute libel.

Yes, the registration for the FIRST competition costs more than it does to register for Battlebots. But given what it costs to put on a competition event, the teams are getting a bargain. With FIRST, the teams pay more but the organization has complete control over the conduct and presentation of the event. The FIRST events appear to the public as high-quality, high-energy operations with professional conduct. FIRST, and the teams, get to control their own fate and how they are presented to the public.

With Battlebots, the teams pay less, but in exchange for the lower registration fee, the TV producers pick up the costs that the teams are not paying and take control of the public presentation of the event. A Battlebots competition can be just as high-quality and high-energy as a FIRST competition. But then Comedy Central gets to add on a layer of insipid commentary, a brain-dead bouncing hostess, meaningless "insights" into robot-building, and enough tacky crap to make even Bill Nye run away in order to sell commercials on the broadcast. Teams need to understand the trade-offs between the lower registration cost and the "dignity cost" of the Comedy Central presentation of Battlebots, and basically do their own cost/benefit analysis to see if it is worth it (note that I make a BIG DISTINCTION here between how Greg and Trey originally wanted to present Battlebots, and how Comedy Central trashed it up to turn it into the WWF of robotics).

-dave

Re: Re: what are you talking about????????????
 

I'd have to say I agree with you completely. It's really disappointing how Comedy Central completely changed the way that Trey and Greg wanted to represent Battlebots. It's one of the costs of working with a TV network, especially one like Comedy Central which is the host of South Park, Crank Yankers, and The Man show. It's sad that the way Battlebots is portrayed causes many engineers and robotics enthusiasts to see Battlebots in a negative way, I'm glad that someone can see through this and find value in what Trey and Greg attempted to do. I think that they are attempting to redeem themselves with Battlebots IQ though, as both of the events were completely paid for by them and I am sure that they will have much more involvement when it comes time to actually air it on TV, if at all. Hopefully, whatever network Battlebots and BBIQ end up on, will give them a better representation than the trash that comedy central gave them.

It's sad that these events are so expensive and that those are the two major trade-offs, although by participating I do not feel that I have had any loss in dignity. I compete because I enjoy it and I will better myself by competing. In addition, the atmosphere at the competition makes it totally worth while. I know that holding the events is real expensive as the shipping of the actual battlebox has had a major influence on where BBIQ 2.0 was held and where BBIQ 3.0 will be held, it's extremely expensive to ship and rebuild it. And although Battlebots has remained dormant for quite some time now, Combat Robotics has not. There are currently over 20 regional events listed in the RFL for all the weight classes all over the nation. It's amazing that the entrance fees are so low, especially when they are not being sponsored by any TV networks or anything of that sort. I mean you really can't go wrong with 85 bucks being the most expensive to register a 340 lb robot. :)

Re: Re: what are you talking about????????????
 

I'll do my homework, I got my information from a reliable source. I will double check and make sure I heard correctly and then ask where they obtained that information, and if I am wrong then my mistake, Im sorry

Wow it sounds rough in this board. Ouch.

To ease the tension....

I would have to say that i have never been involved with Battlebots, and therefore can't tell you which is better. I can comment though from a spectators point of view: Both seem extremely exciting and emotionally compelling. When i see the sparks in battle bots i get just as excited and worked up as when i see the sack toppled or the robot make it to the top of the hill in FIRST.

It's mostly perspective, and from mine, i would say i enjoy watching both, and if given the choice would have difficulty picking between the two.

Rather than arguing over the fact that FIRST or BattleBots is "BETTER" i wish to only say that i hope they both survive and are around in time for future generations of would-be robot builders to enjoy.

Don't spoil either by little "tug of wars" instead recognize the strengths of both awesome programs.

[SIN]_PK59 strikes again!!
look, they are both cool. B-Bots tought me alot about a whole load amount of stuff, but FIRST has just been equally important in my life.
[SIN]_PK59 strikes again!! again!!

Well I really think that it is battlebots that catches the kids eyes I mean unless u have NASA tv FIRST is never on T.V. except the occasional news story which doesn't truly show it. I mean FIRST just doesn't have the media to attract the kids who are just channel surfing, it is out there but the kids need to look for it. However, although Battlebots catches the kids eyes it is safe to say that is by far FIRST that truly gives the kids the knowledge and hands on experience

I second that, LOL. :D

Have you tried Battle Bots/Battle Bots IQ?? That is my first question
I started doing Battle Bots right after my first year in US FIRST.. I was going into the 10th grade. Rather then just a 6week period, my team and myself worked on our robot for the whole year. We started the summer of 01 and then comp was held April of 02, and it has been like that for the past 2 going on 3 years. Going into my 2end year in FIRST, I was able to help my team out and play a larger role due to the fact that I had more knowledge because of my experience I gained while working with my BBIQ team. In Battle Bots you get loads of hands on experience, in my case more then FIRST. This is due to the fact that my Battle Bots team is way smaller then my US FIRST team. My first year I went from working on a team of 50(US FIRST) to working on a team of 7(BBIQ)!! I learned how to use all the machines and became even more familiar with them then I already had been. Due to the time I have spent on working on my teams Battle Bots, im one of the best welders in the shop, and I feel pretty comfortable working on the rest of the machines.... You get hands on experience in both programs, the more and more you work you are only positively reinforcing your actions by gaining more experience. Battle Bots/BBIQ is a lot more then just what you see on TV, just like FIRST is a lot more then just going to a National and or Regional. Its the hard work, team work, time, and dedication that went into creating something that you really do value. I just spent this past weekend working with little kids and helping them build table top robots... The experianece was amazing, and I did not have any machiens to go off and machine parts, or things to weld. It was all nuts and bolts!! Yet I had a field day with it, and I felt like a kid again. Even with little table top robots there is a large hands on aspect that you must take part in....

As for the knowlede aspect...
both are great.
all I can say for Battle Bots is try to keep a 50 pound mass that is spinning at 2000 RPM at equlaibruim. Its not that easy!

Both have their own impact, and both I see as good programs. Especially, as others have pointed out, with the Battlebots IQ program, I looked at that, and there are camps around here during the summer getting middle schoolers involved with hands-on robots at this program, yet I know for a fact they try to get FIRST participants to help out since they have a background, and can help shed a different view point. So, both have actually influenced one another, and in term then gone out to impact society. FIRST reaches out to the students that see "robotics" or however someone may label it before they know what FIRST is... and try it out, and in that way, they become part of FIRST and are influenced, and I know for a fact they pass on some of their knowledge to their friends, even if just joking around.

Some people have mentioned that just "seeing" TV isn't an impact, but I personally disagree. I have watched some amazing things on channels like Discovery Channel, TLC, etc. and even though I haven't been hands-on in, for example, Monster Garage or Junkyard Wars... just watching them teaches you something and you see how others creativity flows, and you can reuse similar tactics to solve a similar problem in your own life, even if it has nothing to do similar, it simply gets your mind flowing. That's the same as what FIRST does, a team gets together... brainstorms, and develops a robot as well as work on many other aspects. In real life, you're not going to go build something to go up a ramp and knock down a wall of plastic tubs, and in real life your not going to run out to a junkyard and start building a catapult (even though that would be fun)... but it's the knowledge you learn from others, and from hands on. FIRST helps with the hands on area, as well as the knowledge passed on, it just doesn't have the media coverage for as much knowledge to be passed on. With Battlebots and other shows, they might be "fighting", but someone could get hooked into trying something new out, and they might start brainstorming from something they saw on Junkyard Wars last night (I know I sure do when I watch some of these shows). Both the commercialized programs and FIRST rely on triggering your mind to start becoming creative, and THAT is what creates an impact, and they both do it in the same way, even if it's hard to notice, both rely on you seeing something and being inspired to be creative.

Therefore, I say we don't just say "FIRST is better" or "Battlebots is better" but to really look at it and see, "Ok, both are accomplishing the same goal and just getting people to start thinking and take action and evolve from there" and they do it very similar fashions, if you really get down to the main way it "affects society", it affects each person individually in the way it gets their mind to think, and I think that both commercialized and hands-on programs work together in our minds, and both make us reach our full potential. Being influenced by one won't get you sparked as much as both, you need to get involved, as well as see different people's approach, and at different problems... not just one problem, leading people to solve other problems. Wow, that was a long post, but that's my take on this.