Re: Re: diversity of Opinions
 

Well, we can only hope that you are right.

Yes I would love to have selections being decided just like the NCAA's. That way we can definitely have teams leave FIRST because they feel screwed. But hey at least we can have one day which we can sit around a computer and see if we have been selected, and on this day we shall call it not selection sunday but the end of FIRST.

There are many things that need to be considered when deciding upon a method of Championship team selection.

FIRST history - should being an original team play a part in the decision or not?
Team performance – does robot/team quality matter?
Last performance – should a team get in because they were good last year?
Past performance – should a team get in because they have been a good team for a number of years?
Entrance equity – should everybody get an opportunity?
Team funding – how can we make this possible for all teams?
Team planning – when do teams begin fundraising & planning for an event?

As a team coach/teacher I have to plan in advance for all of our team’s trips and expenses. We do not yet have a sponsor for this year but I have already had to submit forms to our school for the trips to Regionals & The Championship for this year. If we want to go to the Championship we have to start planning now. We can’t just win an event & get to go. Last year we won a Regional plus a few awards but couldn’t go to the Championship because we didn’t plan for it. As the rules stand we qualify for this year’s event. That is a nice feeling.
I hope this helps you Dave. Good Luck.

What is the Purpose?
 

Wow - so much input.

I am stuck.
I cannot decide on the meta-criteria because I do not really know what FIRST intends for the Championship to be.

I feel that FIRST must first answer this question before they ask our opinion:

What is the purpose of the Championship?

Maybe, you are asking us to define the purpose of the Championship. I am stuck.

- Is it a celebraion for FIRST?
- Is it a competition to highlight the best of FIRST?
- Is it meant to publicize FIRST to allow it to grow?
- Some other purpose?
- All of the above?

The fact that the name was changed from "Nationals" to "Championship" made me think that they somehow had a different purpose for this final event.

I guess by defining the criteria, we are defining the purpose of the event. But I feel it would be better if FIRST just told us the purpose and then we can give opionions on the criteria.

I'll stop now.

Raul

Rookie All-Stars
 

The Championship is the heart of the FIRST experience and rookies team need to be a part of it. This will help rookie teams get into the spirit of FIRST. They will be more likely to return next year instead of giving into sophomore year difficulties.

Allowing rookies into the Championships would also promote the competitive nature of FIRST. Rookies will learn by seeing the best bots in action. Since they have seen how great the Championship is, they will strive to build better bots so they can go back.

Obviously all rookie teams can not be eligible since there could easily be more rookie teams than open spots at the championship. So I think all Rookie All-Stars and Highest rookie Seeds should be automatically eligible. Although the highest seed might overlap with all-star, no team should be given a rookie all-star award if they are already eligible. The purpose of this award is to give recognition to deserving rookie teams who may go unnoticed. If you are a rookie team that is already eligible, you don't need the recognition from this award. I know this favors later regionals but many judges would do it anyway.

That being said, the rookie all-star is the only award a team should not get because of eligibility. The other awards should stick to their purpose regardless of eligibility concerns. Maybe judges should be able to give eligibility to one of the runners up if the winner already has it for any awards that guarantee eligibility.

Odd/Even - Power Division
 

I think qualification should be strictly odd/even.

Everyone can go.....and everyone can plan.

The teams that are used to going every year can get over it......FIRST is too big now.

Where I play volleyball we have a POWER league and a REC league. Maybe there could be a power or all-star division at nationals. This year all the EVEN teams that are seeded in the top 10 (or some number) at a regional will be in the power division at Nationals.

I think this would provide the highly competitive aspect some people want while keeping Nationals just that ----- NATIONALS, not CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT.

Lisa T :D

(I did'nt read thru all the other posts , just wanted to add my 3 cents)

Odd/ Even could be lost without any screams from me.

Making it a competition to get to nationals would be applauded by me.

I like the idea that winners at regionals move on to Nats.

I like the point system from the one previous year.

i love the life time pass for Chairmans award winners.

To add to the confusion how about having the alliance that had the highest single match in all the regionals get a wild card spot, regardless of how they finished the regional
If there is room how about one alliance from every regional. (I doubt this would be practical)

Thanks for asking

I too have not followed this thread and have only read a few of the posts but I do not like the idea of a life time pass for Chairman's Award winners because that would sort of promote teams doing well one year to win it and forget about the whole thing for the subsequent years. I know we all practice GP so technically this should not be an issue but I see it as a possible one if that route is followed.

I only browsed through this thread, so if something has already been mentioned, I apoligise. Anyhow:

I hated the even/odd thing when it first happened. But now I realize that it is a necessity. With the huge influx of teams the past couple years, you need to make things a little less, what's the word I'm looking for, hellatious. Let all even teams register for this year. A lot of them will end up backing out anyway for lack of funds, etc. Then work from there. I'm still trying to figure out when FIRST became about winning competitions. Last I checked, it was meant to inspire and recognize kids in science and technology. I personally don't think last year's performance should qualify you for this year (well, alright, I suppose a national champ should be able to defend their title). Original teams and chairman's award winners shouldn't get a free pass every year either. Teams in this situation really don't have to do anything to get to nationals (I know, Gracious Professionalism, but still, it could happen, and I wouldn't be too suprised if it hasn't happened already). I also don't think weight for qualification should be based on winning a regional. This rules out a lot of the smaller and rookie teams who don't have the ability to build a flashy robot that can do everything. But if you let them focus on the engineering, no matter how flashy it is or isn't, you can give them the awards to match. Those juges awards are also golden. There was one last year for a team who never gave up despite their robot breaking a number of times. There are the spirit awards too. Those are the teams that deserve to go. Plus, with the even/odd thing, every other year doesn't seem too bad anyway. Thanks for reading.

-Eddie

Re: Odd/Even - Power Division
 

Actually, it is the Championship Event, not Nationals anymore, 2001 was the last year it was called Nationals, if I'm correct. Making it strictly odd/even wouldn't even work since this year that would be 500 something teams that qualify. So not to negate your post but, that idea just simply would not work. Back to the new qualification for the Championship, any idea when they will be posted up on the FIRST site?

ok people cmon! honestly not every one can go to the championship! if we could we would live in a perfect world! water fountains would spout out mountain dew, we could all win awards and calculus would be easy!!!!!!! im sorry the system we have is perfectly fine except mabye making the championship more of a championship. maybe the divisions could be more.......evenly matched. i agree with the idea of having award winners only but the problem there is hidden talent. It is touigh on how we can say you can go and you cant........but it cant happen. but there sould be a way to seperate regional winners from people who ranked last in their regional.........maybe. or how bout a rookie division......(Hawkings division)....... a supreme rookie winner...lol. im on a rookie team but i was a d/o on 231 and we had problems at nationals not because we had a bad bot but because our alliences were not always stong........( i still love all you guys!!!!!!!!)...... but we do need to figure out a better way of seperating teams at nationals!
thanks and in christ,
jon "el capitan"

<side track>
What about seperating the three or four regional winners??

I have seen many alliances formed down at Nationals based exclusively on the fact of a previous win together at a Regional!! This happens when two or three (or more) regional winners are all in the same division when the list is released for Nationals.

It makes sense though, doesn't it? You tend to think that because you won a regional together then maybe, just maybe you could work together as smoothly as you did at regionals and go all the way together!!
</side track>

78 Regional Winners
26 Chairman's
26 Animation
26 Spirit (I feel the loud teams should be there to cheer everyone on)
26 Delphi Award
26 Engineering Inspiration Award
26 Motorola Quality Award
26 Johnson & Johnson Sportsmanship Award
26 Leadership in Control Award
26 Highest Rookie Seed
-------------------------------
312 teams
i agree with this idea!!!!!

Dave,
I understand the need and agree with the concept of modifying the Nat'l qualifying criteria. My issue is with the timing of the proposed change. In my opinion it's to late to make a change for 2004. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improvements, well planned & thought out improvements. It seems that the FIRST Executive board is scrambling to make a change at the same time teams are registering/planning for next season. Now is not the time to change the Nat'l championship qualifying criteria. Teams have already begun to implement their 2004 season plans....based off the current criteria. Changing the crriteria now, just before the registration date for Nat'l is not a well thought out plan. Teams develop their regional competition plans based from their budgets and if they qualify or not qualify for Nat'ls. Changing the criteria after teams have already registered for one & two regionals may possibly force teams alter their plans which results in spending more money then planned. In this current economic environment many many teams are financially already in trouble.
Again, I agree with the need, but more time is needed to develop this new criteria. If not, then it will be setup for failure.

My two cents.

+ 2 original teams
 

+ the TWO original teams still involved - #45 and #191
= 314 teams
Even better!