We have had issues with students in the past so we have had to make some basic rules for the team.
- A minimum GPA of 80 (B)
- NO disciplinary referrals from the school at all from September through April
-Participation hours
20+ before season
100 during season
- Entrance application with references from teacher
- Fundraising for expenses + additional items (t-shirts, hats, etc.)
- Parental support &/or Booster club involvement

All of these rules are a result of something from the past. Students failing & not being eligible to go on trips, students getting in trouble & not getting to go on trips, students not putting in the necessary time & getting to go on trips. You get the idea. It has helped us get the initial number of students interested down to a reasonable number, almost 40 this year. I sure hope we can have a team.

All of this stuff is outlined in our team handbook that all students must have.

As anyone on 384 knows/knew, anyone can be a part, that's what I love about us, but if you don't do jack-squat (more than just show up to all meetings) you don't go to any other regionals or Nationals. Everyone is welcome to come to VCU. I've always believed in the FIRST where we improve people's lives and make them more fun, not the elite FIRST idea.

wow. am interesting thread

I wonder what Dean Kamen would think of all these restrictions and requirements imposed on the students?

since the purpose of FIRST is to INSPIRE students to do well in school and pursue professional careers

wouldnt you think the students who really NEED to be inspired would be the ones most welcomed

instead of ending up being the ones who are rejected or ejected

because they are not already inspired to excel in school?

?!

True.
Now, look at it from another perspective:

What if little Johnny joins the robotics team, and he has a C- average, not great, but he's getting by. All of a sudden, little Johnny gets really into these cool robots! He's inspired to be an engineer, and spends all his time working with the team. Poor Johnny neglects his studies, and ends up with a D+ in Mathematics....

Should Johnny's FIRST team allow him to travel to competition?

Many teams try to send a clear message to students saying "School is more important than FIRST, get your grades up, or you can't travel to competition. Your grades shouldn't drop because of robotics."

From this point of view, restrictions can be good.
Every team has their own balance. It is very interesting to see here what other teams do.


229 yields to the requirements of our HSs. A Student must be in "good academic standing" to attend competition with our team.

John

When I posted our team’s list I neglected to tell you that they are not team restrictions or requirements, but expectations. We set the bar high & help the students achieve them. I have seen students who would normally be happy to get average or below grades get average or above grades. Doesn't seem like much but it is inspiring them to show more interest in their grades. As for the expectation of discipline... I believe that is the foundation of gracious professionalism. I have not had to use the rule since it was implemented. It helps our students stay on the straight & narrow. I would guess other teams, like ours, use expectations to help give students a clearer picture of FIRST.

I agree, BUT I think he was talking more about the requirements that T3 had.

we fianily have some this year

Ken, you know from your days as an X-Cat that the kids should have a set of expectations. FIRST is a privilege, not a right. If the kids do first and dump their school work and other responsibilities then they should not be allowed to travel period.
It is a good life lesson for accountability. The kids don't always like it but they'll be better off for it in the end.

then I would say that team is not structured very well by the adults who are on it.

If the students are required to be at the site working 20 or 30 hours a week, is the work they are doing really more important than their school work?

FIRST is not a crash course in engineering and robotics - its great if you have enough students and time so the students can do most of the building work,

but in real life engineers dont build ANYTHING - we come up with the concepts and the designs on paper, then we send it to a model shop or give it to a production house to be physically fabbed and assembled.

We are not trying to inspire students to be machinists and wireing electricians, if students are spending that much time doing the hands on building

then somewhere in the process the leadership has gotten the fatal notion that FIRST is a robot building contest.

its not!

I agree that we cannot have students joining a FIRST program, and then start flunking out at school

but how bout some accountability for the adults on the team?

if some of the students dont 'get it' and are not inspired to excel in their school work, then isnt it possible the adults have failed to inspire them (the whole purpose of the program)

?

in that case, shouldnt those adults be held responsible, and dropped from the team, or not be allowed to travel?!

[Im not trying to be a wise guy, but why do we automatically blame the students when things dont go the way they should?]

There are some students in FIRST who, no matter what anyone *tells* them (think back to when you were 16-18), will do what they want. Some of these students get so "hooked" on FIRST, that it is all they think about. These are the type of students who blow off their HS coursework and spend every waking hour thinking about robots, and every minute they can hanging out at the shop.

Are you saying, such a student is the blame of the adults on the team? I think that with such a case, restrictions imposed by the adults will send a clear message to the student that words themselves may not get across. "School, is WAY more important than robotics".

I don't see how the "poor structure" of the team will contribute to little Johnny's over-enthusiasm for FIRST causing his grades to drop. If anything, this probably happens more frequently on *good* teams.


John

If teams are requiring students to do this, then these teams are being irresponsible. Students should be encouraged to get their schoolwork taken care of first. If they are having trouble (D's and below) with their grades, then they should not be spending time building or designing a robot.

A wise man told me once: "On a FIRST team, set your standards high and the students will strive to meet them... set them low, and the students will do as little as possible to meet them".

We set our grade standards high, and this is a unwavering topic on our team.

One year, our most enthusiastic student got a D in Algebra. He was also our best driver. He spent tons of time at the shop. We stuck by our rule and he did not travel with the team. His argument was this:

"I did more work in here than anyone else! I was here more than any other student! You are not going to let me travel because of 1 silly "D"? "

Our reply was this:

"Yes. You know the criteria. You should not have been in the shop working on the robot, you should've been studying. Also, if you would've told us that you were struggling in Algebra, then you could've asked for help. We have always offered to tutor students during shop time."

This student went on to be discouraged and quit the team. However, three years later I see that he is in engineering school at Purdue. So, it was a tough lesson to learn. He thought we were silly with our requirements, but he still went on to realize that good grades are important.

Some people may say that we should've let him go to the competition. Maybe he still would've turned out the same way.

However, THE BIG THING here is that other students know that we are darn serious about these grade requirements. All know that their grades come first, before FIRST. Since they know this, they get their grades up. All it takes is for us to say "no, you can't travel" to the ones who don't qualify and you see who is serious about being a part of the team.

Andy B.

I am with Andy on this one. Set the standards & stick with them. We have had some of the best students in the school on our team. They have their own set of expectations. The students that need the expectations are the ones that they are designed to help.

Honestly, we don't need to check the grades of most of our team members. This is where we expect parental support. We keep in contact with the parents of the members & they help up help the kids.

As for the number of hours we let the students work per week. We generally don't let them get over 15 during the main part of the season. Our February break is ship week so we don't mind spending Saturday - Tuesday working longer hours.

My last issue i off topic but...
A good engineer should know how to build stuff, not just design stuff. I have seen some of the most amazing designs come out of students. Until they realized that they couldn't be built. If the student has the ability to apply a working knowledge of fabrication they can better design/engineer things.

Amen Ed & Andy
 

103 students must maintain honor roll status to travel. We have 35 students on the team, with a very wide range of learning capabilities, interests, and aptitudes. We have found that, if a student is really interested in robotics and the team, then their motivation carries them to a higher level academically. We have a peer tutoring program and homework time during build season to support this effort.

It's also important to note that we get huge support from Palisades High School, administration, and local community. Competitions take us away from school for a big chunk of time in the spring and district resources are widely available to us. It is our responsibility to ensure all students meet and exceed school standards to maintain that wonderful relationship and placing school first is non-negotiable in our book.

Other criteria:
Interview/Year-end Reviews

Mandatory fundraising with an incentive

Mandatory preseason and in season training, meetings, mentoring, etc.