Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

For those of you know Arlo Guthrie, how about litterin'? I think there might be some of those 8 × 10 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and paragraphs on the back of each one that could be used against me in a court of law :D

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I get the feeling that FIRST is going to drag us down to a building in New York City where we'll be injected, inspected, neglected, rejected, and selected.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Only if it's FELONY littering. Ordinary, misdemeanor littering is not a problem :p

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Oh boy...
Now as I think about it, due to the fact that I (as "Team Leader") am collecting and checking references, I am liable if anything "happens". Not FIRST, not my school, but me. Now I'm scared.

Do the Boy Scout "Troup Leaders" have the same situation (where they are clearly legally liable as individuals)? What about Little Leauge Team Managers? Does any other volunteer based organization place liability squarely on group leaders AND make them responsible for doing reference checks?

I'm thinking that our teams need to add "legal advice & council" to our "wish list" from potential sponsors & mentors.

Part of me thinks I'm over-reacting. Then I think that if something were to happen, I haven't a legal leg to stand on - unless I follow the policy to the letter. (And until I get an official notification from FIRST, age 18 means adult, regardless of student status or not.)

Am I wrong here?

-Mr. Van

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I'm a teacher here in Zeeland. All I can say is this: We don't care how old a person is, if he/she is a registered student at our school, he/she is a student first an 18+ year old kid second. If they do something stupid the school rules would apply. I don't think FIRST wants a background check on a student in a high school.

If you are 18 and out of high school and a volunteer who will have direct contact with students you will need a background check or volunteer screening.

I would encourage all teachers to look at volunteer screening at your school. As I stated before FIRST will except it. In my case my school (not me) will take the responsibility for management of this process and any fees associated with background checks on a “volunteer” engineer.

Take care,

Steve Yasick
Team 85

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

The answer to whether or not an 18 year old student needs to be screened is covered in the following thread.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23144

indieFan

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

A little birdie has told me that some common sense is about to prevail. No one should make any irreversible decisions, or do any unnecessary work, until we hear the final word. Stay tuned.

-dave

-----------------------

14 days to go!!!

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Anyone know a good place to have a tattoo removed? :eek:

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Well, Finally a glimmer of hope. I've been quietly trying to decide just how to handle this issue. It is very difficult to seperate the "overwhelmingly objective arguement of protecting the well being of the students" from the "overwhelming number of privacy, legal, and moral arguments against".

So, after many hours of discussion with my fellow mentors and team leaders I can only conclude;

FIRST should require each team to monitor and maintain their own screening records. FIRST should establish the requirement in broad terms - and then, just as they do with everything else - rely on the GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM of each team's leadership to assure compliance.

Perhaps a policy statement is more appropriate, than a requirement that is so specific, yet leaves far too many things undefineable and unenforceable.

As a team leader (from the company side of the partnership, not the school side), I hope and pray the leadership at FIRST comes to there senses and re-thinks the approach they are taking on this subject.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Like many in the CD community, I've been following this thread closely. So many good points have been made by some of the most respected names in FIRST. Of all comments that have been made here, Brian Beatty's comments hit closest to home for me. Let's not take steps backwords in the quest to help bring about major cultural change. It's also tough to argue with Ben Franklin's wisdom. Some system may be necessary on some level (local - through schools, perhaps), but let's hope Dave Lavery's birdie comes in the form of the voice of reason - soon.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

It seems more and more likely that something big is coming down from FIRST in the way of a revision for the youth policy.
The links that were given out in the email blasts, (http://www.usfirst.org/volunteers/youthprotect for example) do not seem to be functioning right now (at least not for me...)

Is this currently true for anyone else?

Bill Cloyes
677 Team Lead

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

None of the links are working for me.


Wetzel

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

And with the clicking came the ticking of the page that was no more.

Quoth the server, 404

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

http://www.usfirst.org/volunteers/youthprotect/

FIRST has withdrawn the policy.

Thank goodness. Common sense prevails for a change.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Thank you Dave Lavery, and everyone else who has worked to get this policy changed. FIRST has had some serious growing pains over the years, and this was only one of a series of Incredibly Bad (if perhaps well-meaning) Decisions on their part. Its good to see that TPTB at FIRST do listen to the community, and will put the needs of team leaders and mentors before their legal fears. I am impressed that they reversed this policy. Not every organization is humble enough to do that.

As a community we still need to keep an eye on what's going on in Manchester (in fact two eyes, as often as we can spare them), but its good to see that we can affect change.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Well, I'm still going to check up on all of you and give Santa Claus the scoop.

Just kidding - have a great holiday!

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

heck, using google.com, i can get someones home phone and address for free, using just their name and the state they live in. and i can get the same info by putting in thrir home phone....
kinda gives me the jiblies...

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

{sarcasm}

I know what you mean! I saw this book the other day. Just by knowing someone's name you could find their address and their phone number!! I think it was called a phone book.

{/sarcasm}

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

[being serious] A few monthes ago i was searching with my dad for something, i cant remember off the top of my head, but it was family related. We stumbled upon one page, ill try to refind it, but you could obtain anyones address, phone number, backround search, family history, a few oher things and their SS # for a few bucks. Now come on for $10 someone can obtain all the info needed to steal my identity, now thats scary.[/being serious]

~Mike

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I am ALL FOR screening - it should be required by evey school that has their name on a team, and every corporation that sponsors them. As an adult leader and volunteer I am also not a bit 'offended' by the requirement and would be concerned about those who oppose it.

I have worked with youth athelic leagues and had checks completed before I could coach.

My wife and I lead a CHURCH YOUTH CAMP and all of our volunteers (includeing us) are required to have a background check every two years. These are people who we have known for years and are church members.
We follow a very specific policy regarding being with groups of kids.

Programs such a this one (Robotics) require students and adults to work closely together, sometimes late hours and with few others around. A background check doesn't guarantee nothing will happen, but it can be an effective first level screen.

Don't fall for the "we've know them for years..." line. Read the papers :yikes:

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

What is there to be concerned about regarding those who've opposed this policy? We are not a greater risk to the participants of FIRST because we opposed this policy. We do not have anything to hide. We do not care less about the students' safety than you do.

I do not participate in church youth groups, so perhaps that's why I can't understand why you've capitalized its importance. It makes you no more or less likely to endanger the safety of a child.

The policy was poorly designed and implemented, obfuscated by muddled language and poor procedures. It offered no assurances for the security of my personal information, aside from the implicit trust in "team leaders." I do not trust team leaders and have sufficient reason not to. I do not trust the company that FIRST chose to undertake these background checks, Choicepoint and its subsidiaries, because I have seen ample evidence that suggests their business practices are unscrupulous and questionable. Without seeing documented, explicit reasons as to why someone might be red-flagged or labeled as a "potential felon," despite having no criminal history, I will not trust their determination about people -- whether I've known them for years or just met them for the first time.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I just receievd the withdrawl e-mail... It sounded like a good policy... But it needed more work to make it better.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Jeez M...
I don't think that's what he said at all...

Are you genuinely offended, or just picking a fight?

We all have our opinions on what is best for "the children" and for this program. Chris offerred his. Thank you Chris.

It just goes to show that this policy was not UNIVERSALLY hated as some make it out to be. FIRST was trying to do something positive here, many of us disagree with their attempt, but we should recognize that... the people behind this policy were (likely, I don't actually KNOW ;))acting with the best of intentions.

John

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Chris, I think that you might be missing the point behind the protest.

I agree that all teams should screen their mentors. Schools should do it. Companies should do it. Protecting children should be top priority.

However...

Most people's objections to this are with HOW the program was being implemented, not the idea behind it.

In my opinion...

FIRST should not be the ones screening our teams' mentors. This is our job as team leaders. FIRST should stick to creating a great game and kit for us to play with. They should stick to hosting exciting events. Why should there be an added level of bureacracy at FIRST to perform searches and pass judgement on people they don't even know? Do they think that we are not capable of doing this ourselves?

Hypothetically, if there is a mentor on my team with some questionable offenses, it is up to the administrators of my team to determine if that person should be a mentor or not... not FIRST.

I applaud FIRST for being concerned about this issue. They should continue with the program and PROMOTE screening and assist teams by directing them how to screen their mentors. They can cite examples and provide guidelines.. but not require that teams do it by their canned method.

Andy B.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I share all the concerns that many of you have voiced here about this screening process, however my concerns go beyond what has been stated. Unfortunately most folks think that a rule or law that doesn't directly adversely affect them is not a problem.

Maybe we should require all the individuals who are red flagged in these computer data bases to wear and display a "Scarlet Letter" for the rest of their lives, as that would be much less expensive............


Mr. Bill

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

As my post says, I am all for screening. Maybe not FIRST's way - I think there were some real issues with the policy - but some type of adult screening. Our host school requires it, so the team was already covered. My read on the FIRST policy was that if a public high school team was already screening, their existing process could continue.

I was not trying to say that a church group was any better (or any worse) than FIRST volunteers. I was trying to make the point that most large organized groups have required screening of adult leaders for several years - Little League, YMCA, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Churchs and on and on - it is surprising that FIRST is just now starting.

My intent was not to offend or insult anyone - sorry if I did.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Does anyone else see the faulty reasoning with this type of policy?

I've said before, that I'm an employee of DoD and subject to periodic reinvestigations on a very rigid schedule. I submit to background checks that are standardized across the country. I go through the same investigation that someone in Hawaii or Guam goes through as the "checklist" is standard. How many of you that have been cleared by the high and mighty "public school" systems say that? Your background check is probably based at best, on a statewide standard, but more likely that not on a district basis.

I feel that it is asinine for FIRST to grant the public school empire to be the only group exempt from a centralized background investigation program, if they wind up deciding to go that route.

See you on the high ground!

Jim

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Have to disagree with you if you found much good in the Youth Protection Policy...

What happened to the days where adults played the role of adults and children played the role of children? When I was growing up...any adult on the street could get my attention if I had my hands in the wrong cookie jar. I listened to and obeyed folks that were not my parents or had not gone through an invasive background check to interact with me. Those adults that were temporarily "in charge" of me for safety and discipline also protected me against threats....to include sexual predators. When I was in the care of my parents...that was their job.

In dealing with students/children in the FIRST environment, we are working with 14-18 year olds. These students are well aware by now that there's a threat out there, with them as the target. Whether or not there are more sickos out on the street than there were 30 years ago when I was out there in the "target zone" remains to be seen. These teenagers are savvy and smart enough to know if there's a potential problem with an adult. If something happens, then they go to a mentor and make a complaint. If the complaint winds up to have some merit, bounce the trouble maker and drive on.

If I'm minimizing or making light of the problem, then I think the FIRST has to come up with "for instances" that somehow backup this issue. What's happened in the past within the FIRST community? Or are they simply reacting to other organizations that have had problems and trying to learn from their mistakes...hoping to cover their butts?

Wow, that's alot of ink. Think about it kiddies!

Jim

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

If we were truly dealing with children in this issue, my feelings would probably be much different. The audience we're trying to protect here are young adults from the ages of 14-18. They're almost ready to enter that cold, cruel world we as adults operate in. Some of the responsibility needs to shift towards them when it comes to figuring out when situations are wrong and how to avoid them.

I believe that FIRST is succumbing to pressure from that group of people, collectively known as lawyers, to cover their butts before something comes to light. It is inevitable that when you put men, women, boys and girls together something "seamy" is going to happen. Ask the US military fighting the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistann....one would think that they'd have other things on their minds....but have heard of pregnancies rising in those areas of operations. The school personnel, mentors and students share a responsibility in maintaining an atmosphere that prevents "bad things" from happening to "good people."

I'll use the recent news headline about a 49 year old female teacher seducing and engaging in terrible conduct with an 11 year old male student as an example. Text to follow:

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- A 49-year-old music teacher has been charged with having a sexual relationship with a boy she first seduced when he was 11 years old, authorities said.

Carol Flannigan, a teacher at Rolling Green Elementary in Boynton Beach, was arrested Wednesday on six charges, including two counts of capital sexual battery on a child under 12. Authorities said the relationship lasted for 19 months.

Flannigan had developed a close relationship with the boy and his family after he took her music class, inviting him and two younger brothers to sleep over at her Boca Raton home.

The stepmother of the boy, now 13, asked Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office to investigate after finding sexually suggestive text messages on his cell phone Tuesday.

After interviewing the boy, investigators listened in on a phone call the boy made to Flannigan in which she told him to continue lying about their relationship, according to an arrest report.

The Department of Children & Families had investigated Flannigan in 2002, after her husband told a marriage counselor she had described feelings she had when she kissed a 12-year-old boy, according the report.

DCF and police concluded there was no indication of sexual abuse or inappropriate touching and closed that case after the boy said he had "tap kissed" Flannigan but had not felt uncomfortable, the report said.

Law enforcement officials were unable to confirm whether the boy in the DCF probe was the same as the one at the focus of Wednesday's arrest.

The accused teacher had undoubtedly passed through background checks in her school position....but guess what? She still was able to inappropriately interact with a student 35+ years her junior. Who's to say that she wasn't an adult mentor with a Lego League team...that would be the approving authority for YOUR mentor application to work with students?

Kinda makes you think. Why can't we adults simply assume the leadership roles, students take the follower/learner/(and of course teacher role for us old people) and lets get back on track and make the world a better place through recognizing science and technology?

See you on the high ground!

Jim

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

thats is tragic - and very difficult to prevent.

but it would be irresponsible if that teacher moved to another state, and did it again two years from now - that CAN be prevented

the world will never be perfect. That doenst stop us from trying to make it as close as we can get.