References are a Waste
 

The Reference program is a complete waste of everyone's time. Who is going to give a name that is going to give a negative reference? Even John Wayne Gacy could have come up with three people to say good things about him( First Lady Rosalyn Carter, for one ). This program is time intensive enough without finding new and imaginative ways to consume more of it.

Sincerely,

Brian Beatty

Re: References are a Waste
 

I agree. I could use my teammates as references and they could use me and each other as references creating a big circle of references. It's like the CEO / board of directors circle in big companies in which they vouch for each other and give each other big raises. It doesn't accomplish anything.

Also (somewhat off topic), let's say that I do have something in my past that would disqualify me (I DON'T, by the way), but I have been doing FIRST for 7 years now with only good reactions to my involvement. Would that mean that a mistake from many years ago would trump my obvious rehabilitation - that all of my years of good service do not count any more? That seems kind of wrong. I guess I can see being a little more suspicious of new additions, but what about people that have been doing this for years and haven't done anything to harm a student? That is one of many reasons why I think it is best left up to the teams.

And furthermore, why should I be excluded from the team if I have 5 speeding tickets? I really don't see the logic in that one. (Once again, I DON'T have 5 speeding tickets - but if I did, I would be saying goodbye to all of you).

-Chris

Re: References are a Waste
 

Very true. What if a WFA winner TP'd a house when they were young and were picked up for it? Does that 'criminal' record make them a bad mentor? No.

From what I can tell, if FIRST just adds a bylaw giving responsibility to each team for their actions and requests a 'code' to follow, i.e. "Please do not have a student in the company of less than two mentors at one time.", this probably wouldn't have to happen, and FIRST would be exempt from responsibility for incidents. If a student accidentally is hurt by the robot in autonomous, that doesn't mean that FIRST is getting phone calls about it.

Re: References are a Waste
 

Andy B. ... is she talking about you ??? :p

Re: References are a Waste
 

Actually, it's four (4) speeding tickets for disqualification.

BTW, I lost my automobile registration tag before I could attach it to my license plate. I rushed out to get a replacement, since I didn't want a potential "chargeable traffic offense" to get me kicked out of FIRST...really!

Re: References are a Waste
 

She is from the BEATTY team... ;)
No telling what stories she's heard.

Uh oh.

Re: References are a Waste
 

I believe it says "More than four chargeable traffic offenses...". I interpret "more than" to mean 5 or more. If it is 4 or more, that is even worse.

-Chris

Re: References are a Waste
 

You know, I actually pulled out the policy before replying to you originally. It goes to show how you miss things when you're tired. It does say "more than four offenses" and not "four offenses" as I had supposed.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Here is what we plan to do to at Zeeland to work with the volunteer screening. I think it will be legal and satisfy FIRST


After I made my first post to this thread I took the FAQ's from FIRST to my administration. They didn't want me to handle the FIRST paper so they made a call to FIRST to ask more questions. FIRST directed them to the quote below.

"Are there any exemptions for people screened through other processes?
The following is the only exemption: Adults who have been screened by a public school system to work with youth are exempt from the background screening and reference check process. (Those exempted and screened by a public school system may include currently employed teachers, other currently employed school employees, and current school volunteers.) The team leader should maintain documentation that the mentors have been screened by the school."

Because we use a system of screening here for our volunteers FIRST should be able to exempt our engineers from the process that FIRST has set up.

I hope this helps.


Happy Holidays

Steve Yasick

Screening Policy Consequences
 

I have been reading and rereading the US First “Documentation” on their “Youth Protection Policy.” Not unlike the FRC game rules, the latest update only seems to add to the confusion and not actually clarifies anything. The following items are my thoughts (and like many others in posts above this…represent only my thoughts and no one else…) on one of the more hypocritical instances bound to occur.

I give you fair warning: this by no means a “common sense” approach, but in the “wonderful” world of technicalities, liabilities, and plainly covering one’s behind, one cannot be too careful….

Definition of a “Mentor”

The FIRST policy clearly states that anyone over the age of 18 that will spend more than one time period with the team will need to be screened with the background check and results readily available for audit. This lends to a few additional questions:

* What if mentors cross between teams? Say I am the “team leader” for team A and have a mentor from team B helping (on more than one occasion) my team. Being the team A "team leader", I cannot afford to assume that they have been checked, but ask for copies of the consent form from the “team leader” of team B.

This is only because that as it stands now, that if anything were to happen to anyone on my team, I, the “team leader”, would be held responsible (and liable). According to FIRST, in order to limit my liability (and compliance) I must maintain their information for 3 plus years. It should also be noted that (per FIRST) incomplete information is not acceptable; therefore I will have to have that mentor’s SSN as well.

Using the above as a basis:

* As pointed out in an earlier post, what of the volunteers at the competition events? It makes good sense to have all of them background checked, and information readily available to limit my liability

* What of the judges, the CEO’s and VP’s that FIRST brings in to be amongst the youth and judge the various categories? That would mean that I need all of their SSN and other information.

* And that would even go so far as to include Dean and Woody. But being as strong believers of FIRST as they are, I’m *sure* they won’t have a problem giving their SSN out to the “team leader” from every team.

As a reminder: “team leaders” get to perform their own background checks, no issue with liability there either…

Just some things to think about.
-Bill Cloyes
4th year mentor
677 Team Lead

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

For those of you know Arlo Guthrie, how about litterin'? I think there might be some of those 8 × 10 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and paragraphs on the back of each one that could be used against me in a court of law :D

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I get the feeling that FIRST is going to drag us down to a building in New York City where we'll be injected, inspected, neglected, rejected, and selected.

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Only if it's FELONY littering. Ordinary, misdemeanor littering is not a problem :p

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

Oh boy...
Now as I think about it, due to the fact that I (as "Team Leader") am collecting and checking references, I am liable if anything "happens". Not FIRST, not my school, but me. Now I'm scared.

Do the Boy Scout "Troup Leaders" have the same situation (where they are clearly legally liable as individuals)? What about Little Leauge Team Managers? Does any other volunteer based organization place liability squarely on group leaders AND make them responsible for doing reference checks?

I'm thinking that our teams need to add "legal advice & council" to our "wish list" from potential sponsors & mentors.

Part of me thinks I'm over-reacting. Then I think that if something were to happen, I haven't a legal leg to stand on - unless I follow the policy to the letter. (And until I get an official notification from FIRST, age 18 means adult, regardless of student status or not.)

Am I wrong here?

-Mr. Van

Re: Volunteer Screening?
 

I'm a teacher here in Zeeland. All I can say is this: We don't care how old a person is, if he/she is a registered student at our school, he/she is a student first an 18+ year old kid second. If they do something stupid the school rules would apply. I don't think FIRST wants a background check on a student in a high school.

If you are 18 and out of high school and a volunteer who will have direct contact with students you will need a background check or volunteer screening.

I would encourage all teachers to look at volunteer screening at your school. As I stated before FIRST will except it. In my case my school (not me) will take the responsibility for management of this process and any fees associated with background checks on a “volunteer” engineer.

Take care,

Steve Yasick
Team 85