I for one, kinda went the other way around. I know "God" and have been a christian most of my life. But i found myself dissatisfied and unhappy with my faith, and was generally hipocritical about my religion. And then not too long ago i stumbled upon wicca, and found my true connection with a higher being. i found in the God and Goddess what i never had with "God" and in Isis i found the strength i have alway lacked. My prayers are answered just like anyone elses, and i am a better person because of the path i walk. I am more happy with myself, and do more good than i have in my past. Perhaps who you worship is not so important as how that worship affects you?

Im interested to know what it was about Christianity that you rejected, and what you found in another religion that God would not give you.

But that is way off topic and I dont want to derail this thread.

You can send me a PM if you wish.

Just a couple things to ponder n' some things to get out.

Athiesm isn't a culture, how could it be? All cultures have some type of religion, and culture is a whole heritige, and the common lifestyle of a large group of ppl. Yes some Athiests might be common in the way of religion but take a random group of athiests and you prob won't find anything in common, thus it cannot be a culture. (also lacking the heritige thing)

If ya never kno God r you going to hell? No, only if you have never had access to him or his word. Take a tribe of pigmies, Most of them will never hear the word of God, but yet they are spared because of God's grace. Same thing w/ the age of accountability and mentally challenced people. How can you grasp at a loving relationship w/ your God when you can't hold a spoon?

Can i ever be erased in the book of life? No, if you beleived that Jesus is God's son and he died for us, then you have believed, and will receive eternal life. Even if someone who is a devout athiest, blasphmey's God and his followers all his life, if he has a change of heart, even for one day, and accepts Christ, he will be accepted to the kingdom of God, even if he turns from God and returns to his ways, God will never forget him.

And just a note to all, God answers prayers, in his time, he wants a relationship w/ you. But God won't answer a prayer if you don't fully trust him, if you have so to speak a back up plan. And God isn't the only one w/ power on this earth, Satan has almost as much power as God, using Temptation he can change our views to somehting that ignores God, so beware

And a last thing to ponder, If today's society upholds and protects individuality, and everyone has to be different, then y do ppl persecute, tease, and fight others because we are different? Why do ppl who say they are religious at church never admit to it outside of church, as if they are ashamed to be different. If you beleive in something, or say you beleive in somthing, really beleive in it, stand up for it, for then others might see what you have, and they might not have.

Chow~

I was surfing the web tonight, looking up information on Joshua's long day (a day in biblical history when the sun stood still in the sky for 12 hours)

and I stumbled on an awesome website that talks about the historical and scientific verification of the biblical, as a literal record of history.

I bookmarked it and will probabally read the whole site eventually. Just wanted to share:

http://www.grmi.org/renewal/Richard_Riss/evidences/

All I have to say is my God is always with me and hes always with you. No matter what goes right or what goes wrong MY God is always there, even for you non-believers. There doesn't have to be some scientific explaination. From what I can remember, its the scientific explaination that killed santa...and the easter bunny...and the great pumpkin...etc.

I Believe in a Loving and caring god that sent his son here to die to save the human race. Isn't that cool?:D

Discussing this kind of topic on this webforum is never a good idea, and I'm suprized honestly that it's not closed yet. I voted, because I am a firm believer in democracy, and I happen to believe in God, and I happen to be a Catholic (but not a Roman Catholic, thank you) but will not discuss my own views on this forum due to the "right and wrong" this sort of topic tends to lead to. Carry on.

Forgive me, but what on Earth gives you any right to speak for or about the experience of mentally or physically disadvantaged people? Are you mentally or physically challenged in some way?

That is, without question, the most arrogant thing I've read regarding religion in ages and ages -- as if you are somehow better than people who don't (or can't, by your interpretation) have a similar relationship with your God. Well, my heaven, how can I show my appreciation that your God shows benevolence to the people He makes unable to maintain their relationship with him? What a swell thing to do. You pity the poor other folks who don't believe the same thing as you, for by the grace of you and your God, they won't live in eternal damnation. Whatever.

Oh -- take a random group of catholics and tell me how they have in common besides that religion thing -- then talk to me about how athiesm isn't a culture.

Ciao.

Re: God
 

Here is my story.

So if you read the story you find Im not a big fan of religion although I am a big believer in God. Don't get upset with people because of what they believe in, just leave it at that, agree to disagree. There is no need to get worked up and angry at someone just because they dont think the same way as you. It will never end up good, and more egos will end up shot than minds changed.

Re: God
 

I was saying an outsiders look
by no means did i mean that all mentally handicapt ppl are going to hell. By far they are going to other way. Because of grace they are saved because they cannot fully understand like we can their decision. And if they can all the better. But what i beleive by grace they are saved.
i ment it in a way w/out grace not something i beleive in
srry if you were offended, but you were the one who took it wrong

Re: God
 

Blacknight

the flaw in your logic is your assertion that you find God, or interact with God, with your intellect and reasoning

you dont find God with your mind, you find Him with your heart

we think humans are intellectual beings, but at some point in our lives we realize we are emotional beings first

and you ability to think or reason in sophisticated ways has nothing to do with whats in your heart.

Re: God
 

Two notes: first, I just read the last couple posts, so I may have missed a vital part of the argument, however while I disagree with most of what Blacknight is saying, his assertion that atheism isn't really a culture I have to agree with (although I disagree with his reasoning behind it); there is only one belief, usually based on reason, that is common among atheists. Here is a link to what is generally my reasoning (though in the words of someone far more eloquent than I): http://www.thatthinline.com/brandx/atheism.shtml. In advance, I'd like to warn you not to read it if you are not willing to hear the other side argued. Also, there's some, um... (very mild) language that may offend you in case you can't handle that.

Here's a quote from it that's particularly relevant.

God
 

Just a few things that I would like people to think about...

First off, people have a wide variety of views and beliefs. In modern American culture, we hold the strong ideal that we all need to tolerate and respect the beliefs of others. I couldn't agree more. However, I would like to propose a few thoughts.

The first of which is this:
There can logically be only one absolute truth.

This will bother people, though it shouldn't, so I shall extrapolate:

First off, let's say there is a box on my desk. Inside this box, there is room for a coffee mug. I say, "I believe there is no coffee mug in the box" and my friend Sally says, "No, I believe there IS a coffee mug in the box!"

It doesn't matter what Sally or I believe. There either IS a coffee mug in the box, or there is not a coffee mug in the box. This fact is non-debateable.

The same goes along with God. Either there is a God, or God does not exist. The quantity of people with certain beliefs, or even the strength of their beliefs does not change the simple fact: there is an answer to the question, "Does God exist?"

To make every effort to discover the truth, is (in my opinion) not something that's merely a "good idea," but absolutely the most important question that each person must answer. Living your life for ideals that may sound good, but are not fundamentally true is much too big a gamble, given the weight of what is possibly an eternal destiny.

Essentially, each person must take a firm look at their beliefs and say, "How do I know that what I believe to be true, ACTUALLY IS TRUE?" You must be subjective.

aka...

Believing all people who don't believe in God are "angry indiviuals" or that everyone who believes in God must be "ignorent to reason" doesn't change the fact that both of these groups, by their obvious contradictions, can not both be correct. The mug can not be both IN BOX and NOT IN THE BOX. It's one or the other.

Furthermore, if you believe God exists, it is immensely important that you follow the most accurate truth you can find, since the vast majority of world's major religions give no reward for only deciding that God exists.

Being moderately well read on appologetics, I would really enjoy a chance to talk with any or all of you about any questions you may have.

AIM: Snag83
Email: justaskmatt@mjadams.endjunk.com

Matt

Re: God
 

Johnathan, I read through most of the BrandX website.

The author comes across as being angry, resentfull, arrogant and full of pride and self confidence - as if he is impressed by his own reasoning skills that have allowed him to figure out that religion is a 'bunch of fairy tales'.

But the error in his logic is this statement:

thats totally wrong. The existance of God can be tested, measured and discovered - so many times throughout the bible God communicates to us, "seek the Lord and you will find Him"

the best detailed example of this is recorded on the night of the last supper in John (14:21)

Jesus came right out and said, If you love me, if you love God, then God WILL reveal Himself to you

its not that we assume God exists, then delude ourselves into believing its true - millions of people have had this personal experience of God making Himself known to us, revealing Himself to us, in a personal way. The result is that we know (not think or believe) that God is who He is, as described in the bible - but that knowledge is given to us in a way that I cant pass it on to you, or anyone else - you have to seek God for yourself and He will reveal Himself to you - only Him, not the rest of us.

The problem BrandX has is, he wants to determine if God is real or not, THEN he will decide what he wants his relationship with God to be - its a 'show me the money' thing - God, prove to me that you are real, then I will love you and follow you.

What is that? its arrogance pure and simple. People who think this way have turned their relationship with their creator around backwards - God doesnt owe us an explaintion, or proof, we owe Him proof that we love Him, that we want to follow Him, that we want to be like him.

If someone holds a gun to your head and says "do what I tell you", then the things we do have no merit, whether they are good or evil, because we are dong them against our will.

But if from our own freewill, we choose to do what is good and true, If you read the bible and say "this is the way I want to be", then you dont need the proof before you do what it says

but the amazing message the bible brings us, the good news is, that God does reveal Himself to those people, God wants to be a part of our lives here and now, on a daily basis - that is what christianity is all about

not pouring water on the head of a baby - Its about you finding your nature revealed in the bible, and God pouring out His Spirit and love on you

personally!

Re: God
 

I do beleve in God.
I beleve in him because of many things. Mostly the way He has changed my life, and the storys I have heard about how He has changed other peoples lives. It also feels good, because, when you talk to Him, it lets you feel like you have (at least some) controle over normaly un-controlible situations.