2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

Hey everyone,

First of all, I'd like to try not to turn this into a drill motor debate thread. So, other than that, what changes would you hope to see to the 2004 kit (within reason - no anti-gravity devices will make their way into the kit).

Personally, here's what I'd like to see:

-Slightly different batteries with totally square terminals so larger hardware can be used without deforming the terminals.
-Return of the seat motors
-Different window motors (maybe like the older ones) The new ones had way too much slop.

More 0.75" ID Phlanged bearings Thos things are like $9.95 each!

I definately want to see the return to the drill/clutch housing.....


-Pat

Kit wishes...
 

I've said it before... half the motors and twice the pneumatics!

Mr. Van

The models and quantities of motors in the kit are largely dependent upon the motors that are donated to FIRST by companies like Bosch, Fisher Price, Delphi, etc. Any “request” we make of FIRST to change the quantity or model of motors provided in the kit will probably not be acted upon (unless you’re lucky and one of those companies has a few thousand extra of a particular model) because FIRST is at the mercy of these companies.

I hope that rules regarding pneumatics are opened up this year. If we could 5+ cylinders <cough>multiposition</cough>, while being given roughly the same number of motors (2 drill-ish, 2 CIM-ish, 2 FP-ish, 2 Globe-ish, 2 Window-ish, 1-2 Van Door-ish, and maybe 1-2 Seat-ish), I’d be a very happy camper ;). I’d also like to see the scoring object fit into one of those kit containers again :P. I really liked the fact that FIRST had couplers and adapters made for the Window motor, the all new Drill assembly, and the CIM assembly. That was very useful, at least for prototyping. Keep up the baby steps FIRST!

Tytus-
I’m sure that it isn’t just a characteristic of west coast teams not to use those large bearings on your robot. If you asked around I’m sure you’d find lots of teams who would be willing to trade you theirs for something of yours. Teams out here have entire bins full of those huge bearings.

Yeah I liked that A LOT too. And the drill motor mounts - but we're not getting into that here. We used the coupler parts on our actual robot for the drills and Chias. It is just that there were only two of the aluminum hex parts with the 5/8" keyway bore. So, we had to buy another set of the drill ones to use those parts for the output side of our Chia coupler. We did machine our own steel window motor couplers for fear of breaking the plastic ones but we used them in a awkward situation.

I really did enjoy all of the custom FIRST-specific new kit parts last year.

The answer to this is extremely easy. Let FIRST add 3 rolls of classic Duct Tape to the kit. No robot will have any problems. If they do, "Fix it in code".

In all honesty, I would like to see a few pulleys in the kit. Our team had a fun time getting them last season.

Oh, and a spare "golden" nut for the 120A breaker wouldn't be bad either. I lost one of the nuts last season, and spent far too much time searching on the floor for it.


______________________
"Arms broken? We'll fix it in code."

To add to that it'd be nice if they provided a list to what size hardware or threaded holes was used in every applicable component of the kit so we wouldn't have to guess.

What, you can't judge an M10-1.25 tapped hole or a 11/32" hole when you see it, just by eye, and be right nearly all the time? I can. :p

I think that FIRST's little baby steps with the motor mounts and everything is just fine and they should keep that up. However i have been saying since i became addicted to FIRST that more pneumatic freedom would be great. It would really open up the doors for some spectacular engineering. So thats all i want to see changed more pneumatic freedom.

mabie they will losted up the rules on the compressor because we wont be getting one this year

More pneumatic freedom.

I remember an old post about a team that unknowingly cheated (had they read the rules right, they probably wouldn't have done it). They used box aluminum as their frame and made it air-tight. Then they hooked up their air lines into the box-alum frame, thus creating a much larger volume of ready-to-use air than just using the kit tanks. I think if I team can do something like this, they should be allowed to. But still it must pass a no-leak safety inspection and follow all other guidelines given.

Pneumatics is a great thing for robotics, especially for the type we do. A lot of great designs have involved pneumatics, and only greater ones can come from more freedom in designing.

If we aren't allowed to think outside the box, give us a bigger box.

Heh. That goes to teach you not to lose them, or get into a position where you might lose them. The same goes for terminal screws on speed controllers. ;)

We'll say that whatever they give us isn't enough, but in the end, it will be.

That's no fun!!! :rolleyes:

Remember, half the fun of FIRST comes from trying to think of what box to think outside of ;)

I'm sorry i havent been to CD for a while now.....who and where was it said that there would be no compressor?

Although we didn't use the manufactured housings for the drill motor and helical gears, it wouldn't be bad idea to make shiftable transmissions similar to the plastic assemblies they made. Nothing fancy, just use the standard drill transmission and a servo. It would help out rookie teams as well as teams that lack a machinist or the know-how to build a transmission.

A lighter, smaller Maxi block would be nice.

A slip ring would make turrets much easier to design and build.

I agree positionable air cylinders would be helpful.


Infinite potentiometers like he ones some of the teams used would help with auton and other functions.

Miter Gears!!!!
Ok, I just had to get it out of my system. I think more 90 deg. parts should be included.
Pnuematics should be beefed up a bit, but I know the battery and compressor are likely to stay the same, as first is relying on vet teams to reuse theirs.

I agree on the penumatics,
evean if we had to buy them ourselves it would be nice to be able to use a few more cylenders.. but most importantly the VALVES to control them just put in a crevat that we can use as many valves as we want as long as they are model XXXXX or a drop in replacement.
hrmm.. also.. drop the joystick rule where we cannot modify the stock ones.. but totally building a system ourselves is allowd :rolleyes: twas IMHO stupid last year.. and will continue to be if they do it agin.

Its not that there isn't going to be a compressor, FIRST just isn't giving a new compressor to anyone except 1st and 2nd year teams as a way of saving money. Check out this thread for more details.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

This seems fairly dangerous. I really do not want any team building anything with pneumatic parts they built.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I think it would be great if they included sprockets with the set screws and such already attached to them. Last year we used the sprockets, but had to weld them to another piece (the name escapes me at the moment), so that they did not slip off. Unfortunatly we welded them crooked, and the sprocket wiggled, and threw the chain off. I don't know if this was in the kit last year or not, but motor mounts for the Atwood motors would be great.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

...the hub?...

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

Personally, I'd be more worried about the danger involved in some of the mechanisms teams have built with pneumatics than the danger of turning some aluminum extrusion into an effective reservoir. I'm not saying it should be legal, just that there're more dangerous things. If a team can make a piece of extrusion into an air-tight container, good for them.
All you need for that is some sufficiently solid piece with two properly spaced holes, and two 10-32 screws. Trust me, it works.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

Less pnumatic restrictions. ie: we should be able to use rodless cylinders, rotary actuators, multiposition and feedback cylinders etc...

Larger accumlators

a good pair of optical encoders and higher precision gyros.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

i say keep given the same cool stuff,,,,,with some extras for surpises of corse !

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I'd love to see an RC with a USB connection! I'm not complaining about what we have, but it would just be very convenient, you know?

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I know. You don't see too many computers with a serial port in the front. :p

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

What I would really like to see is something like 4 atwood motors or 4 drills and getting rid of the 2 of one and 2 of the other.

I'd also like to see some uniformity in either English or Metric components.

What about a little flanged ball bearing assortment for 3/8", and 1/2" diameters?

How about some wheels with some real traction to them so teams can just use them out of the kit and be halfway competitive.

Just some thoughts...

Matt

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

Personally I feel there really is not anything more dangerous than anything untested that is under pressure. The problem is not that it is an air-tight container is that its an air-tight container under pressure. You actually bypass any safety features that the original tanks had. Of course I am a safety freak.
I would love to see the list of electronics be expanded to include more sensors.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I have to agree and yet disagree. I'd love to see 4 drills or 4 chipua/atwood/whatevers. But then again, sometimes I'd rather have two of each. Some times it's better to have the variety. Anyway, my suggestion would be for FIRST to handle that problem the way they did the pneumatics last year. Let you choose any combination of 4 of the two types. That means that teams would have to wait a few extra days until they know what motors they want and then get them shipped. And if they had new motors or if the kit was for a rookie team, they'd probably have to include one of each for testing and then allow you to return one if you want 4 of the same. Again, I'm not complaining, just discussing.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I've heard that what you just said might actually happen. :ahh: Though I confess it's probably unlikely; the extra shipping costs, possibly running short of one type of motor... are just a few of the way too many catastrophic problems that could arise.

Matt

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I would love to see some super high tech gyro sensors this year. perhaps somehting more fitting of a segway gyro. basically a sensor that can sense more degrees per second than the ones we have now. some high quality wheels would be great. something that does not have to be modified in order to give some decent traction.

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

Very true. Then again, I wonder how they handled the pneumatics distribution. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Can't wait!

Re: 2004 Kit Changes Wish List
 

I think that just about every team would love to see that.... I dought they would due to high prices of such high-tech gyros.... (I have looked for them online before) but they would definitly work well with the new controllers..

New "intellegent" gyros would make them more useful to teams and you inturn would see more teams using them.

I like ur idea... I hope it happens

-Greg The Great