Clarifications and Questions
 

The Tier system is a great idea; however, way it is presented leads to some confusion. As I read it, the system is just steps to obtaining a list of teams that qualify:

Step 1:"All teams will be classified in a Tier (ie. Tier 6 equals six years since attending a Championship or last attended in 1998; Tier 2 equals two years since attending or attended in 2002). "
-The teams in the higher tiers are eligible until the point that the number of teams in a tier is greater than the number of available spots left. At this point we move onto step 2.

Step 2: "If the number of teams in a tier is greater than the number of available slots, FIRST will use a lottery system for teams within each tier to determine eligibility for the remaining open slots."
- All of the teams in the tier in which #teams>#slots left will be eligible if they are selected by the lottery.

Step 3: "The final determination will be first come/first serve until all available openings are filled. A wait list will be maintained for any openings that become available after the close of registration. Typically 10 to 15 openings occur during the Competition season."
- This step is the unclear one. How would there ever be a first come first serve basis? If a lottery is held to fill all of the remaining slots why would there be more slots? If it is to fill the drop outs, then is the first come, first serve only within the tier that the lottery was held? If anyone could clarify this will facts from FIRST or the eligibility document that would be great.

The tier that the rookies are has also been a question in this thread. I would assume that they are in Tier 1 and not tier 6 as some people have suggested. If they were in tier 6 then winning the rookie all-star award would mean nothing as far as making ineligible rookies eligible. Can anyone officially clarify this also?


Eric

Also, I don't believe I have gotten an answer to my question:

Say a fourth year team has never been to the CE, what tier would they be in?

This wasn't about my team(chances are we won't ever go to nationals again, and money isn't the issue), I was speaking more in general. I remember this season there were many teams just unable to come up with the money in time. I agree that many sponsors would cover the cost if the team qualified on merit, but the problem is getting that money in time. With only two days(only one business day), it would be very hard to negotiate such a thing in time, especially with the bureaucracy in many companies.

they have it set up this year so theres an extra week from the last regional to nationals...
~Mike

how do other HS teams manage the flexibily in playoffs and championships?

if your football team wins all its games, and goes to the state championship, that money comes from somewhere? and they dont know if they are going until a week or two before the event, right?

FIRST teams and sponsors will have to find a way to adapt to the growing pains we are experiencing - if you cant goto the championship this year, hopefully your sponsor can find a way to set aside some funds for next year.

Frankly, I love this new system and I think this makes it fair and just. But I don't like having all '92 teams automatically go, that is just dosn't sit well with me.

Okay.
Why?

They are 6 teams... SIX, this is a drop in the bucket, and doesn't significantly affect "the numbers" either way.

Without these teams, there would be NO FIRST, there would be NO Nationals, there would be NO 384, and you would just be another bored HSer who has a vague idea about what enginerding is, and thinks he might, maybe, possibly want to get into it.

19, 45, 126, 190, 191, 250

They are NOT all the best teams in FIRST. Many of them would NOT qualify every year based on performance.

But... they were here FIRST. They laid the groundwork so that we can be here today.

This is FIRST's way of saying thank you, their way of saying "we remember".

So... jeez Joe, what about this possibly "doesn't sit well" with you?


This quote struck me... everyone should read this, and THINK before they comment on this particular issue.

"I have to add, not only is it an accomplishment to have sustained a team for 13 years

the fact that these teams signed up in '92 for something that was just an idea also deserves special recognition.

Without those original teams, there would be no FIRST. I think I can speak for every team in the Rochester, NY area, that we all owe our existance to the spirit and drive of the Xerox/Wilson Xcats - they really spread the idea of FIRST in this area - and next year we will have a regional here.

The original teams were pioneers in every sense of the word!" - Ken Wittlief
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...653#post191653

This whole thing is just a nice gesture from FIRST.
It does not affect things one way or the other.
Why would you possibly be against it?


John

Because his team isnt one of the first 6?

*shrug*

Cory

I have some of the same uneasiness with them being allowed to remain. I think it resembles to much of a class system, or being elitist. We've been here longer, so we can go.

Thats what it appears as to me. I really hadn't considered the effort to sustain a program for 13 years. That consideration has moved my opinion very near neutral on that issue.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~
mmm..big band

"All teams will be classified in a Tier (ie. Tier 6 equals six years since attending a Championship or last attended in 1998; Tier 2 equals two years since attending or attended in 2002)."
So wouldn't a team who hadn't attended nationals yet be Tier 0?

It is a class system and it's only getting worse with the introduction of a tiered system. At least the tiered system has potential benefit for every team, though.

I don't lose sleep knowing that the remaining original teams are getting a free ride, but if I were in a position to decide, things would be arranged differently. But then, that's true of a lot of things in FIRST these days.

[sarcasm] I liked FIRST much better when there were only about 200 teams, and the championship was held at WDW, and everyone could go, so I think we should cap FIRST at the first 200 teams that were formed, and not let any new teams be created unless a team disbands. What do we need all these new teams for anyway? [/sarcasm]

it occurred to me - how well you understand the new championship qualifications, and how well you accept them

is a good indication of how well you understand what FIRST is all about, and where its going in the next 10 years.

Please, avoid making generalized statements about "What FIRST is about" because, honestly, what it means to you probably has little in common with what it means to me. It affects people in positive ways, and I think that it's really, really dangerous, myopic and limiting to say that there's any one reason why anyone should be involved in this program.

If someone disagrees with or challenges the "Championship Eligibility Criteria," and they voice those feelings, as far as I'm concerned, they get what FIRST is about.

Your mileage may vary.

FIRST is an internation program, and it really does exist for one specific, well defined reason. EDIT: the purpose of FIRST was defined by its founder, one person.

And that one reason is why many people are devoting their personal time, and many corporations are donating millions of dollars, to individual teams, and directly to FIRST

If people are participating in this program for 'other' reasons, then FIRST will be divided, splintered, pulled in different directions, there will be arguments and contention.

I dont think im being myopic by saying that FIRST has a single, well defined purpose for its existance.

Without the 28 original teams, FIRST as we know it wouldn't exist.

It's true that founding teams don't get a free ride in pro sports (otherwise, my Wings would be in the playoffs every year...:)). But the competition in FIRST has always been secondary to the learning experience. The six remaining teams have much to offer from their experience, especially to teams in their first year.