Teams left from 92?
 

ok, i was jus reading the new criteria for nationals and i have one question.

Does anybody know how many teams are actually left from the 1992 season, and that have been around since FIRST was originally started?

45?

I don't think the numbers were up to 45 in 1992. '92 was the first year right?

Also, the teams have to have participated every year since then. There was a thread on this last year and I think there's only max 3 of them left.

This isn't everyone, but:

19, 45, 190, 191, 250

...at least, they're among the teams who've been around since the beginning.

Remember, FIRST used to renumber each year and, finally, starting in 1998, the team numbers we're familiar with today were assigned.

Terribly sorry. We discussed this just a few weeks ago. It momentarily escaped my mind.

What a horrible method that was. A number should be a number forever. At least it seems to be that way now.

EDIT: Did the teams M posted compete in very year?

There were 28 teams that first year. I can't think of any other teams than those MK pointed out. Maybe Brandon can help. Is there a way to tell through the forum's registration info?

Don't forget gael force 126

19, 45,126, 190, 191, and 250.
Back then the numbers were different but thise are the six who are stilla round which is why I don't see such a big deal if six teams out of about 300 get to go every year considering many good teams from FIRSTs past(including chairman's Awars winners and National Champions) have faded away it is an accomplishment to last this long.

I have to add, not only is it an accomplishment to have sustained a team for 13 years

the fact that these teams signed up in '92 for something that was just an idea also deserves special recognition.

Without those original teams, there would be no FIRST. I think I can speak for every team in the Rochester, NY area, that we all owe our existance to the spirit and drive of the Xerox/Wilson Xcats - they really spread the idea of FIRST in this area - and next year we will have a regional here.

The original teams were pioneers in every sense of the word!

Wheeling HS (I think this is the one) (One of the schools involved with Wildstang) has been involved since 1992, but with the addition of the other HS, they *technically* don't count as an original

No, Wheeling HS was not involved in 93 and 94, I believe.

Andy B

I also believe 131 (CHAOS) competed in 1992 but did not compete in 1993. They have competed in every competition except for the 1993 competition.

Matt

Team 20 has been around since 1992 (though it changed numbers a few times, it now has its original number back...)

[edit]

20,45,126,190,191 appear to be the only teams, accoding to a query of the FIRST team list:

http://www.usfirst.org/frc/map/FMPro...-max=all&-find



Or even more interesting.... all the teams that competed in 1992....

http://www.usfirst.org/frc/map/FMPro...-max=all&-find

Bah.. sorry for the double post but....

I just noticed that 19 isn't in that list... infact they are listed as 1994 being their rookie year (according the the FIRST database). What happened?

The FIRST database is in many cases, incorrect.
The "official" records from pre-1997/1998 get a little hazy.

The "recognized" original teams are right now:

19, 20, 45, 126, 190, 191, 250

Though this may change at some point soon.

Should taking a year off like CHAOS did remove this prestigious status?

What about Manchester West, Keene Hs, Nashua Hs and Assabat Vocational Tech School??
Have any of these taken a year off? I know that some have changed sponsors a few times and even changed numbers in some cases, but if the high school competed for all the years why doesn't that count?
Just curious.....its an interesting debate now that being an original team counts for so much.


Chris

EDIT " I checked the records with some other 229ers this is what we found

Chaos took a year off in 93
West Took a year off in 93
Assabet Took a year off in 93
Keene Took a year off in 96
nashua hs is listed every year

"

Anyone interested in viewing the team lists?

Check out this file.

John

In a bit of an unrelated side topic, at what point did the FIRST competition switch from tethered competition control to RC control?

FIRST went from tethers in '92 to no tethers in '93.

Andy B.

Definately should be automatic...
 

Chaos took a year off in 93
West Took a year off in 93
Assabet Took a year off in 93
Keene Took a year off in 96
nashua hs is listed every year

These 5 teams should absolutely, without a doubt, gain automatic entry into the Championship Tornement in my opinion. I feel this way for the same reason that I feel that the current original 6 should be allowed in....they put in so many years, sometimes its hard to find the motivation to keep going forth, but they still keep comming back. 12 years is a long time...I call out to FIRST...give these teams auto entry!

Assabets first full year involved with first was 1993, the school helped framingham high, i think we might have made a few parts for them in 92. just to let ya know.

Yeah, but then they brought them back again in 2002!

-dave

(stands back while the "tether flame wars" erupt all over again)

Re: Definately should be automatic...
 

I have watched the various discussions on this topic for the last few weeks, and feel compelled to throw in my two cents.

There are a LOT of teams that have put forth tremendous efforts over many years, supporting and participating in the FIRST program. Somehow, they heard about a unique program that was exciting, inspirational, educational, and demanding, and they decided to give it a try. They investigated FIRST and formed a team - maybe they were inspired by a FIRST alumni from another team, or saw one of the video pieces, or went to a competition, or called Manchester got promotional material in the mail, or read about it in the newspaper. Then in return for their dedication, sweat, perseverance, and efforts they have received a set of experiences virtually impossible to duplicate elsewhere. They have produced students - and engineers - that have a better understanding of engineering, science and technology, and an appreciation of what it means to be a "professional" and a role in helping to change our society. For all that, they all deserve our congratulations and thanks.

But in 1992 there was no FIRST. The teams that became involved that year were not responding to a call to join in an existing program. They had no way of knowing if the FIRST program was real, or a pipe dream. All they had was Dean Kamen coming to them with infectious enthusiasm and an amazing vision of what society COULD be like if they decided to help him change the value system of an entire country.

Think about that for a while. You are sitting in your school or company and one day an unknown engineer shows up and tells you that your entire value system is upside-down, and he is going to fix it. And fix it not just for you, or for your school, or your company, or your state, but for the entire country.

At that point, almost everyone must have thought him a loonie, and thrown him out. But a small number of folks could see the beauty of the vision, and where it could lead. They had no data about the program, didn't know if it would succeed or fail, had no wonderful anecdotes or success stories to build upon, no structured organization to support them, no FIRST PLACE, or network of teams to mentor them through the process. Unlike every single team since then, they had nothing to rely on except faith in the vision described by Dean Kamen of what FIRST could become, and the impact on society that it might have one day.

With only that to go on, they were able to pull together a few companies and a few schools, and form the founding FIRST teams. They were willing to commit themselves to try something they had never seen, and actually get companies to kick in money to support a program that didn't really yet exist.

In short, they were willing to step into empty space, and take a risk that NONE of us have ever had to take since then. And for every year since 1992, they have kept the vision alive despite changes in team members, changes in sponsors, changes in structure, and changes in FIRST. If they had not accepted that risk, there would never have been a second year of FIRST. Or a third year. Or a tenth year. For that, they deserve our thanks, our gratitude, our respect, and our appreciation.

And I think that they deserve a lifetime pass to the Championship Competitions. It is the very least we can do.

-dave

Assabet did not compete in 1992, they started in 1993 and recieved the Best Defence Award. They were partnered with Framingham High School who started in 1992 (I believe) in 1995 Framingham dropped out of FIRST and Assabet continued on thier own.

But, remember, they were brought back at the VCU regional. Instead of saying "Virginia is for Lovers", the good folks for Virgina should say "Viginia is for tethers".

... on to a more serious note...

Dave,
Your passion on this issue is contagious. I was here when we started our team in 1992, but I was not an active member. My boss was involved back then as the head designer. I really don't know our story with regard to "how Dean convinced us" to be a part of FIRST. Our division of Delphi (Delco Electronics) was owned by GM at the time, so he probably approached GM management. I'll find out and post what I discover.

Andy B.

Don't forget about the "Virginia Balance" from 2001. I think they're causing too many problems down at VCU...

Matt

This is not to cry or complain, just to add insight. In 1993, the three Manchester NH high schools (Central, Memorial and West) could not take part in FIRST because at that time they could not find sponsors for all three teams and someone decided "all or none". I became an advisor in 1994. After that, each school has had to find its own sponsors (like most schools.) West and Central only missed 1993, Memorial skipped at least one other year.

Those teams that have been in there EVERY year are the ones that earned the yearly pass to the Championship.