A FIRST Warning From VA
 

As anyone in Richmond area can attest to, we are in trouble with FIRST. MAJOR trouble. We hare around 7 teams in less than a 30 mile radius, and we arn't a very huge city nor a big technology industry. We are suffering.

One of 384's main sponsors folded this summer, and quite a few other team sponsors are dropping like flies. Many funds are now dry that used to contribute money, and many teams have nothing this year.

Why am I saying this? Because I want to warn you. While FIRST growth is needed, not like this. I'm not surprised if a few teams fold this year, that's how bad it is. PLEASE don't follow our mistake. PLEASE don't expand to the breaking point. Consolidate teams, pool funds. PLEASE do it. PLEASE.

I'm deathly afraid that FIRST's downfall will be it's own expansion and high prices. Please FIRST and the FIRST Community, listen to our problems. I doubt that this will be the last problem here.

Can you merge a few teams together for a year or so, and try to secure enough funding to eventually spin them off as their original team? This is a good way to keep schools involved in FIRST when they're about to fold. It's also a good way to cut costs drastically (2 teams entering one event each costs $10,000 total, whereas one team comprised of two different teams attending 1 event costs $5,000 or even attending 2 events costs $9,000. ). Just a thought. Good luck.

Similar thing happend in Boston, there was a rookie team from the Roxbury last year. This year, they merged with the BU team so they can secure funding and interest. I think it would be very benificial to the FIRST program to think of quality and not quantity when it comes to the amount of teams involved. The point of FIRST is to get as many STUDENTS involved as who want to be, not to have thousands of suffering, understaffed teams.

In the Southern California area, the teams in SCRRF made a deliberate decision not to pursue new rookie teams this year. A few are starting anyway, but we didn't go out of our way to drag them in. We felt it was better to work on the foundation of our existing teams and strengthen them. Once most current teams are fairly stable, and we have adequate support for the Southern California Regional, then we will pursue rookies again. Besides, it's not like we had to work hard to fill our regional slots.

Sometimes it pays to rest and consolidate your gains.

I've always wondered how those teams with 150 kids can possibly function. Even on the teams i've been with (25 people or less) it dwindles down to a core group of maybe 8. I don't think FIRST has any effect whatsoever if you've got an engineer and five kids building a robot and 100 groupies.

I remember back in 2001 we started a FIRST team in Hartford and another team offered to let us join. They said "maybe your kids will get on some key committees or something, we'll see" but it sounded to me like they just wanted us to watch and learn.

We didn't take the offer because we weren't willing to invest the time and effort on a team if the only thing we got to do was make t-shirts. Yes, FIRST involves all sorts of non-engineering jobs, but there are a hell of a lot better, more interesting, more creative and less expensive ways for kids to get experience in video, business, creative writing, than a robotics competition. Besides, how do you inspire kids by saying "Yeah, we want you to work on this great project, but we don't want you to actually work on it, we want you to sit around and watch us work on it, and if you're really lucky we'll let you use the button maker."

Here's an example: last year I suggested a controversial strategy and was promptly flamed to a crisp. The leader of one large, well-established team said something along the lines of "what am I supposed to tell the engineers I've got sleeping on the floor for weeks..." I was curious how much student involvement was possible on a team where engineers were literally sleeping on the floor, so I made it a point to check that team out at nationals. I spoke to several students and they all told me the same thing "we didn't get to do anything or learn anything, we just talked for awhile and one day they showed up to a meeting with a robot." The students were uniformly frustrated with their team and felt that they got nothing out of the program other than a line on a resume. The adult mentors I spoke to were oblivious.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't important HOW many students you've got involved, its what they do, what they learn and how they feel about the program that matters. Those thousands of understaffed struggling teams may not produce the best robots and they probably won't win too many chairman's awards but I think that they give kids a much better experience than the big teams.

I'm not trying to attack big teams or their leaders, many of them are very good people. I just want to say that as the leader of one of those "understaffed, struggling teams" I think we provide a pretty good experience.

Your post addresses two issues, but the second has been beaten to death twice.

I don't think it's our place to determine who benefits from FIRST or how they benefit. If people are making a commitment to be there, in whole or in part, as groupies or something else entirely, that's their prerogative. Just because we don't understand the potential benefit this program is having on them because they're not just like us doesn't mean that it's not having a benefit.

I emphasize with Joseph M about the loss of support for teams in your area. I can understand why you are upset.

I dont think its fair to any sponsor to expect them to continue to support a FIRST team for more than one year at a time.

For a corporate sponsor being involved with a FIRST team is a community service, a way to give something back to the people in your area, a way to invest in your future.

But we have to accept that individual companies dont always prosper, dont always make a profit - some dont even stay in business!

If you have a corporate sponsor this year, be thankfull and gratefull, and hope for the best for next year. I dont see any reason to be upset with FIRST for allowing the program to expand too fast, allowing too many new teams

?!

how could FIRST possibly tell a company that wants to be a sponsor no! ? Would we demand that they put up money for 3 or 5 years before we allow them to start a team? Would we hold them responsible to find a replacement sponsor if they are no longer able?

Ive seen several corporations over the years go through a downturn, and lay off MANY employees, and still keep sponsoring their FIRST team. In fact I know of one that kept its team under wraps, kept it secret as much as they could (no media coverage, ect) so that people who had lost their jobs would not have to deal with the idea of the company spending money on highschool students, instead of keeping them on as employees.

If a high school and a sponsor are able to get together for one year, and have a team for one year, I think thats wonderful. If they are not able to do it again the following year, that will not take away anything from the experience those students had when they were on the team.

There are no guarentees in life. Cherish what you have while you have it. None of us knows what tomorrow will bring.

Dean may have asked that every high school in America be involved with FIRST, but he never said they all had to have separate high schools.

That can be a problem on any team, big or small. I know some teams with 25 people on the whole team, and even fewer(<15) at each meeting who work that way. They believe that one should just watch and "learn" until he/she has been on the team for a few years. I don't really agree with this strategy, but it isn't just limited to big teams.

Our mentors have debated these questions before, as to splitting up and sponsoring a rookie team, or combining resources with the nearest team. Some background:

Team 180 (SPAM) is in Martin County, FL where there are only 2 high schools, 15 minutes drive apart (3 next year) and no single big company for a sponsor. We have been supported by UTC/Pratt & Whitney since the beginning - they are the largest employer around but they are located in Palm Beach County to the south. The local P&W plant has faithfully sponsored 2 teams (Swamp Thing in Palm Beach County is the other) each year, even though employment has gone from about 8000 7 years ago to probably less than 1000 now since the engine business moved to Hartford. Most of the engineers on the team worked at Pratt at one time and now work elsewhere locally.

I believe that our sponsorship continues because of enthusiastic support from specific managers both locally and at UTC corporation (Dr. John Cassidy whom I saw at Nationals) who believe in the FIRST program. You've got to have a champion at the sponsor.

We aggressively pursue other sponsors and community support to keep growing the program, and each year we make critical decisions before all the funding is in place (as most teams do). But our decisions always have one focus - how do we reach the most kids with our available resources.

I must admit I'm jealous of the big teams who have engineers and machinists paid to support FIRST during the seaon. We don't have that luxury - we have a limit to our available time and take vacation days and it puts a pretty heavy burden on our families. So even if money wasn't a limit, manpower would be. There's no way we could support more than 1 team here, but we can sure reach more kids and we make every effort to do that. Our team is about 50/50 between the 2 schools and that's been true every year.

Splitting into 2 teams to get "credit" for growth is the wrong type of growth, as would creating a rookie team at the new school instead of including them with us. I think we've had the right balance - splitting the team would get us below critical mass for an inspirational program; combining resources with Swamp Thing would put too much strain on the kids in travel. We've grown each year and reached as many kids as possible.

Focus on the kids, not the teams.

:Tear: I love you Pratt&Whitney

Exactly. I don't think there's enough corporate support for every high school in America to have its own team, but I think there is enough for every high school to have a local team its students can be a part of. There may come a point (and it has apparently come in some areas) where teams will need to branch out to include more schools and students, rather than starting completely new teams.

I disagree - once you have a local regional you can have a team for less than $10,000 a year

for a business that is not a lot of money. Im sure there are far more businesses in any given area than there are highschools.

If not then you really NEED FIRST in your area! :^)

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

JosephM - I just noticed that your sig is the Apple Manifesto! Probably my favorite piece of corporate propaganda. Its great to see some Mac users in FIRST.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

As a member of 617 (in the richmond area[highland springs, for those who care]), I agree. Each year, finding the same amount of $$ to keep us going is hard enough. What with losing a sponsor this year, and having the entrance fees go up $1,000, we probably wouldn't have a team this year if it weren't for Verizon. As it is now, we barely have enough for the spare parts limit for the year (assuming it stays at the same level as last year). I can only hope that more companies will help pick up the tab for more teams, or that teams get really good at fundraisers really quickly :o .

Verizon is awesome!

<edit>
It really sucks if you have had a next-to-free machine shop for years, and then they drop you. that may have happened to us, we can't tell yet, but we're preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.

BUT WEST END MACHINE AND WELDING IS THE BEST!
</edit>

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Here in NoVa we seem to be flush with cash, and while I used to be gung-ho about starting teams at nearby schools, this post has made me reconsider. There is really very little incentive for expansion, as it only cuts into your funding. This is why FIRST can't be everywhere.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Unless a miracle occurs, our team is not going to compete this year. Still need about $3500 before Friday, and that's with an emergency grant. (And that means we won't be able to use pneumatics, since we sold our compressor last year. :( )

Squirrelrock, were going to have to use your team's idea about an open-house for next year. It seems to work.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

There is a group called the Greater Richmond Technology Council who says on their website (www.richtech.com) the following:

"The Greater Richmond Technology Council is a member-driven association of businesses and organizations working together to ensure the continued growth of Central Virginia's dynamic technology-based economy. The Council includes both Technology and Associate members dedicated to the development of an infrastructure that supports the growth of existing technology industries and identifies the Greater Richmond region as a location of choice for new and emerging technology companies."

They list many companies and organizations (it looked like a couple of hundred names) who might make good $$ sponsors.

Are you sure you have really tapped out the region?

hth,
Ken

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Do you really need it by tomorrow, or do you need to have it secured? I'm a VCU student and a FIRST volunteer, and I am certainly willing to help some Richmond teams put together a fundraising campaign. Talk to other local teams, and maybe we can hold a Richmond FIRST meeting here on campus or at a local high school to see what can be done. I wish I'd noticed this sooner or maybe we could have gotten things together sooner.

Just because your team can't be independent this year doesn't mean that the dedicated people on the team can't still be invovled in robot building, designing, etc. you just have to work together with other teams.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

local richmond team's meeting, eh? not a bad idea at all. mabey we could get the new teams in too. anyone else interested? we can host. i'll bring cookies! ;)

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Unless we can find somebody to front the funds, we can't compete.

I agree with JosephM: I like your ideas. We would have to get a list of competing teams in the area and see which ones would be able to incorporate. I wouldn't feel so bad about not competing this year if there weren't people on our team that won't qualify as students next year. :(

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

This is the exact same effect we have witnessed on my team, a core team develops. To try and keep all members involved we are always trying to reorganize the team to be more effiecent and keep all of us students involved.

A Richmond team meeting sounds awesome! Maybe we could collaborate to help needy teams find funding by hosting a joint FIRST open house.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Throw me an email at 384matt@henrico.gaggle.net if you'd like to participate. I'll send a note to my supervisor and lets see what we can do.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

We all need to get together and do something to raise more funds.. btw.. what sponsor did you lose.. juts attempting to compare notes and see whos helping who this year...Ken, thanks for your input, but I know 617 has attempted to contact all of the resources in our area.. we recently hosted an "open house", and invited over 100 people from different technological and engineering fieds to come and see our program, and the Center for Engineering (a division within the school/county).. it did ok, but were still short a couple grand, especially since were attemting to go to Annapolis along with VCU this year.. after the season is over (sorry guys, but i think it may be a little late for getting over 10k for this year) we need to get together and get a city-wide fundraiser going. good luck, hopefully see you at VCU in March!
JP
VP Engineering/Design/Fabrication
Team 617

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

From team 616, we have a little bit of conflict as well. We used to be the team that had no other teams around our area. This year, we now have a new team that is near us. Therefore, we lost a mentor or two, and there are not that many sponsors to chose from. Each year, it is a struggle for teams everywhere to get sponsors and now, our struggle to get sponsors have increased. We will come through somehow though, I hope :)

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

T-15 Minutes to D-Hour and still not paid.

Oh, well. We tried.

EDIT:

It's over...

(Must not cry, Must not cry, Must not cry, :( )

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Send me an email bud, lets get you on 384. :)

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

I'm a mentor for Team 975 (James River). We're all for consolidating, and have had one or two Richmond-area schools join us in the past. Unfortunately Midlothian high split off this year and I'm not sure about St. Christophers. Let's all keep in touch and see how we can manage this. There must be at least 5 teams in Chesterfield County alone. Three of these are within a 10 minute drive of each other.

How many Richmond area teams ????
 

Make that 19 or 20 TEAMS! I didn't see St. Michael's in this year's list for the VCU Regional. This came from the FIRST site of teams registered for the 2005 VCU event.

346 L.C. Bird - Chesterfield
384 Tucker - Richmond
405 Richmond Community High School & Richmond Public School & Richmond Community High School
414 Hermitage Tech. Center - Richmond
416 Armstrong - Richmond
422 Maggie Walker - Richmond
539 Trinity - Richmond
540 VCU/Henrico Education Foundation - Richmond
638 Clover Hill - Midlothian
975 James River - Midlothian
1033 - Benedictine - Richmond
1093 Collegiate - Richmond
1172 Richmond Tech Center - Richmond
1222 ???
1467 Home School Robotice - Chesterfield
1522 Hanover High - Mechanicsville
1530 Thomas Jefferson - Richmond
1541 Midlothian High - Midlothian
1545 Freeman High - Richmond
1599 Atlee - Mechanicsville

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

You forgot 1086, they are in Richmond too.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Here in Oregon we have come together into what we call FIRST Force. 7 teams that share ideas and fund raise as a group. The Force goes to larger companies (HP in our case) and asks for support. It is great. The teams came together and did a scrimmage last spring in their parking lot for the employees. And this fall they made it happen...


Anywhere there is more than one team in an area this is the way to do it.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

My team, #95, gets students from 5 highschools plus homeschooled kids, we have about 18 kids in total, myself included, and 6 engineers, all from different companies. Job or school boundaries shouldn't mean anyhting in FIRST. As for funding... all of our funding was pulled, as well as our workspace. We had nothing as of June, but after asking around about who knows who in local companies, we scraped up $9.5k and workspace in a little under 2 months. Don't loose hope fellow FIRST teams, just rally together and work hard.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Joseph - Do you know of any huge VA company that would be willing to help out multiple teams? (I was thinking Dominion VA Power.) With this being a rural area and already having sponsorship from the only large company around here it is hard to find other businesses or people willing to sponsor us even though we placed second at VCU this year. A rookie team starting less than 15 minutes away from us and FIRST raising entry fees didn't help either.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Very interesting warning. In Northern Virginia, we experienced a similar problem where there are so many teams in such a concentrated area that fund raising was nearly impossible. We eventually had to turn to our own school as one of our main sources of fund raising. It's very hard in First populated cities to keep a team going. We almost did not make the entry fee this year and may have folded after one year. As far as I am concerned, I think that FIRST should regulate team formation. Even though spreading the program is a good thing, sometimes there are just too many teams in one area. Therefore, if a school wanted to start a new team in an already crowded area, FIRST would say no. While this seems to be hindering the creative potential of many students, that school should then seek to join in an alliance with another school and form a two school team. This would cuts down on the number of students not participating at all. FIRST should definitely consider a system like this.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

The quest for funding really can be a quest, and it is generally a required for Robotics in general. But I agree that there is a difference between a quest and mission impossible. Pretty soon, at an exponential growth rate, FIRST prices may end up being a significant portion of the American (and International, at that) Economy. In addition, there has been a recession, and although it is getting better, it is doing that at a VERY SLOW pace. This takes away profits that could otherwise go to teams. It is very sad that this is happening, because teams suffer and fold because of it. I think it is time for massive government funding of the FIRST program, to rescue teams like 384 that are really suffering. I agree that this is one (although the ONLY) downside of FIRST.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

384 is not suffering by any measure, but many local teams are. Just want to clarify that.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

I think they are funding us already through something known as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

So, what are other teams that didn't make it doing this year?

I think we'll be having some sort of para-FIRST comp, and working on 3ds max.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Team 1541 had a great season, we loved every minute of it. We are from Midlothian High School, and I feel that starting a team here was a great move for us. We exposed the FIRST program to a whole new audience, myself included, who would not have gotten into it had it not been for the new team. We worked really hard to fundraise, we had a massive aluminum can drive and brought in close to 3000 pounds worth of cans. We also got a good amount of sponsors, mostly through parents and friends. Basically, all I'm saying is FIRST has definately changed my life, and if my school hadn't started a team I would never have been a part of it.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

I guess we are lucky at George Washington High School in Danville. I first started looking into FIRST in the mid 90's but knew funding would be an issue for this area at that time. As time has passed and things evolved I was approached by the Superintendent and Director of Gifted Resources to do an enrichment program after school dealing with robotics and knew that FIRST was the ticket. We have had a great build season and look forward to VCU. Our team is mentored by 5 teachers and the Work Services Coordinator from the school. We have not gotten any outside help or sought any outside funding. The district officials seem to be very excited about what we have done and the effect it has had on these students. If all School Districts would or could help in this way it would be great and take the pressure off outside funding sources when times are tight.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

As I read through this thread it occurred to me. This is like a business that has only one customer. When that one customer stops buying, the company folds. Answer to the problem, get more customers. Some teams are very lucky to have a single sponsor that can meet their fincial needs. The problem comes when that sponsor can't continue to support them; the team folds. The answer is get more sponsors. For a team or business to have a long range future it needs to have a broad support base. All the money doesn't have to 9in fact shouldn't) come from one place. Get out and beat the pavement a little and you'll find that there are a lot of smaller companies willing to pick up part of the bill. Build a relationship with your community. Show them that in order to have technically capable people to fill their jobs they need to be supporting organizations like FIRST. Don't take this as bragging but during robot season we get the community involved. Many of the local businesses post "Go Robotics Team 343" on billboards outside their place of business. Places like McDonnalds, the Local Auto Parts Store. The Boat Dealer, etc. Our team is not sponsored by a single company it is sponsored by what we call "The Oconee County Business Partnership". Sure it's more work but if your goal is to have the team live on then just like in business you need to work to diversify you income base.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

As nukemknight said, their is a new team 15 mins away. That's the Franklin team I sponsor. nukemknight is from team 616, in Courtland. 616 didn't participate this year because of a lot of complicated politics that I don't feel like explaining... but part of the problem was corporate funds in the area.

The big business around here is small potatoes compared to some of the other localities that other teams are in. With the creation of the Franklin team, the available funds were cut in half and both teams suffered last year. This year the teams wanted to merge together in order to put the corporate funds together and push their team forward. This failed due to the politics I spoke about earlier and 616 is the one that noticeably suffered. Not to say that 1610 didn't suffer. They lost the mentors that 616 was bringing to the table as well as the additional students to assist in the work load and the experience with FIRST that came with them.

I believe that every high school ought to be involved in FIRST, that's not to say they have to have their own team. If you're team finds itself close to another team, you ought to work together toward the common goal. Which isn't winning, it's learning. Hopefully the school boards in this neck of the woods will learn that before next year's season.

How to cut a CAKE
 

How to cut a cake in Robotics...

First, get the cake

Second, get the saws all

Third, you cut the cake with the saws all.... And the cake pieces go flying :yikes:

Hahah, Team 1730 has so much fun :D

Attachment 13107

Re: How many Richmond area teams ????
 

So this thread was resurrected by fluke but I think it could serve as a learning tool for teams looking at sustainability. The thread is from 2005 but we are still facing these problems. Of these teams here is where they stand 7 years later (I took the team list from 2012 as some teams may not have registered yet). Green means they are still around Red means they did not register in 2012. If you are an alumni of some of these teams and it turns out you just merged please let the CD community know how that went.

346 L.C. Bird - Chesterfield
384 Tucker - Richmond
405 Richmond Community High School & Richmond Public School & Richmond Community High School
414 Hermitage Tech. Center - Richmond
416 Armstrong - Richmond Now 3709
422 Maggie Walker - Richmond
539 Trinity - Richmond
540 VCU/Henrico Education Foundation - Richmond
638 Clover Hill - Midlothian
975 James River - Midlothian
1033 - Benedictine - Richmond
1086 -
1093 Collegiate - Richmond
1172 Richmond Tech Center - Richmond
1222 ???
1467 Home School Robotice - Chesterfield
1522 Hanover High - Mechanicsville
1530 Thomas Jefferson - Richmond Now 2998
1541 Midlothian High - Midlothian
1545 Freeman High - Richmond
1599 Atlee - Mechanicsville

Nearly 50% of these teams no longer exist in the same form that they did in 2005. Two have created new teams in the past 4 years. Let's not let that happen in the future. Pay attention to sustainability and make sure you guys all have a rainy day plan Ed Baker posted a link in this thread to a presentation that was adapted from 234's at Worlds.

Re: How many Richmond area teams ????
 

I added an old team, and added some information

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Actually $10,000 is a lot of money. Quite a lot of money. Our team has spent many long hard months doing car washes, light bulb sales at a variety of venues, other fund raising events, restaurant fund raisers, etc. We have also had the students out tracking down and following up on just about any source for donations, grants, etc. The students and adult volunteers are worn out worn out from all the fund raising and yet at this point we only have approximately $5000 raised for the year. That is enough for registration at one event, but nothing else. No spare parts, no supplies, no tools, no extras of any kind.

Our fund raising efforts are ongoing, but at this point we will probably not be working with much more. There was a time when we got some financial support from the school district, and that made things easier. But at this point we are lucky to have our school supply some space for meetings. We also used to get more cooperate sponsorship, but most local companies have dropped all support and it takes a lot of work to raise even $5000 if most of your corporate donations are less than $100. I wish we were a town with have a JC Penny or other company that supports FIRST, but for now we need to just chase as many small donations as we can. The economy is tight and in some areas there is just not a lot of money available.

Still, I would hate to see our team decide to merge with another local high school. I know if that happened many of the students would just have no way of making it to meetings on a regular basis and would drop out of the program. I know there are companies that really understand FIRST and are willing to make a significant contribution. There are also locations where fund raising events can solicit a more significant response. But please do not assume these opportunities exist for most of the teams out there.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

This thread raises some very key points.

To give some level of summary, the critical components which contribute to the FIRST experience include:

1. Students
2. Sponsors
3. Mentors

I think we can all agree that we would like to see as many students have the opportunity available to them to participate in a FIRST program in their community. Considering that agreement, students are not the limiting factor towards growth for FIRST.

Sponsorship has become significantly harder to secure for many teams, both in rural, suburban, and urban areas. Companies have cut back, though many do still maintain a high level of commitment to the FIRST program and the services it offers. It is veyr true that with a local regional it can be possible to build and compete with a simple robot for around $10,000. This sum of money, though not small, is significantly smaller than the many teams whose annual opperating budgets exceed $40,000. Ultimately from the discussion on money, we can conclude that though operating at a higher budget is becoming more difficult, we seem to somehow survive by cutting back on projects, and sharing resources within our areas.

The fundamental limiting factor that I wish to raise on the subject of new teams and the growth of FIRST in geographic areas which are already dense with team participation is the topic of mentorship. Industry mentors are critical to the success of a team, and the inspiration of students. It isnt that our teachers are bad, but they need help and often times do not have the hands-on engineering experience to lead the design and construction of an FRC robot. Mentors are absolutely critical and I think if you talked to any FIRST team mentor they will tell you just how much time they dedicate to the program (whether sponsored by work or not). The problem with so many new teams is that there are not enough active mentors able to support them.

This sentiment is shared with first hand experience. I am a mentor for ILITE Robotics (1885) and Herndon High School Robotics (116) in Northern VA. As has already been said, yes we are much better off in the DC area than other areas with FIRST due to the high number of engineering companies and government contracting ($$) BUT this year resources have become more tight and the persistance of several local teams at starting new rookie teams as opposed to opening their team to numerous high schools has split valuable sponsorship and spread the critical mentorship thin.

Gary Dillard said it perfectly:

If a team is looking to promote growth for FIRST, I would recommend looking towards setting up ladder programs such as FLL and FTC and opening your teams doors to students in your entire community. FLL and FTC are WAY cheaper, and operate with systems which are much easier for non-engineering parents to become involved.

PLEASE: Heed this warning, and understand good mentors are even harder to find than sponsors. (So go thank your mentors... I know I do every day)

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

I agree with many of the comments you made, however, this statement above is much harder to do than you may think.

Most of the teams in my local area, Richmond VA, are based out of local high schools. These schools have rules regarding who may participate in their extracurricular activities. Students from different schools in the same county may not be able to participate. To bring Joe Student into your school for robotics would be troubling to many school administrators.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

How does this thread keep getting bumped?

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

By fluke, and then by re-analysis. I think what KelliV did a good follow-up to the warning from a few years ago. With that said, I wonder if the warning has any merit -- are the teams no longer registered to due (natural) attrition or primarily due to funding issues caused by donors being spread too thin?

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

Hello...

I'm a mentor for team 1610 which started in 2005 and was the team near
team 616. It is true that to a extent we competed for funding with 616, but
not directly and during the first couple of years we looked for different sponsors than what 616 had. We had tried to merge both 616 and 1610 together in 2006, but school board politics played a part and what happened was team 616 folded and 1610 kept going, but it wasn't easy. Three former team members joined 1610 after 616 folded. A mentor for 616 in 2004 became a mentor for 1610 in 2005 mainly because his son went to team 1610's high school. The Big loss was that we lost 616, the mentors that worked with that team (none of the mentors from 616 came to 1610 after 2006) and the experiance that team 616's robotics program could have given to its high school and community.

I've seen both new teams start up and other ones drop out in the Virginia area. Mainly based on teams that came to the Virginia regional and allowing
for the newer DC regional and NC regional teams i have seen some teams drop out. 616 will probably never be back . I have yet to see team 388 register this year. 165 from Maryland who often came to the Virginia regional is gone. So is team 2108 from North Carolina that used to come to Virginia.
(I don't think they existed after 2010) and there are others.

You'll notice that the Virginia regional used to be called the Nasa/VCU regional. While Nasa played a huge part in that regional, i don't think its as big a part as it had been. Also one year BAE Systems was a co sponsor and they withdrew their sponsorship of the Virginia regional after that year.
(in all fairness BAE has cut back on some of its sponsorship and not just in Virginia) Having many teams close to one another can be a good or bad thing
depending on the given circumstances. In some areas of the country it works.
In other places it doesn't. That was part of the reason we(1610) tried to merge with 616. We have been lucky hand have been able to keep going.
(we won the regional in 2006, but almost folded in 2009) Community support
can almost be as important as sponsorship and not something to be overlooked.

Re: A FIRST Warning From VA
 

If you pay attention to the overall progress of FRC and Virginia FIRST, I think most would come to the conclusion that certain parts of the state are not growing to expectation.

Of red teams on that list, I believe almost all of those teams have unofficially folded into other teams (I believe JRHS and Clover Hill fold into 1541 as well as other high schools). Outside of team numbers, the state on the whole gained 5 rookies but netted -1 teams for the 2012 season, which is disappointing. Event OPR is significantly down and to put it bluntly, teams visiting VAR from outside the state really put the hurt on teams in-state. If I or someone else knew of a magic bullet to fix this problem, I'm certain it would have been solved.

Virginia, specifically central Virginia, has been a big FIRST concentration for over a decade, but we do not see an ideal distribution of team quality (in my opinion). We are just as old as the midwest, northeast, Greater Toronto, deep south, and Pacific areas but have had difficulty establishing a "marquee team." I guess I would be giving it to 1086 or 1885, but if criteria for a marquee team was CMP win, we would not have any.

Some people will not publicly attest to this, but there is a political climate in some parts of Virginia FIRST that may be a hindrance to this development. It may be the removal and relocation of the NASA sponsorship from VAR to DCR and NCR. You could credit companies that are not heavily involved sponsors like GM or IFI, but I don't think that's fair to great area sponsors like DuPont and Flexicell simply because GM is a megacorp and IFI is fine-tuned to sponsor this kind of stuff. It could be a collection of very inflexible administrators and teachers. Maybe we aren't properly developing in FLL and FTC, but I doubt that is the case. Maybe teams in the area operate on too much of an island. It could be a collection of all of these things.

I don't know if changes coming to the organization in 2014 will either help or hurt teams, but I certainly hope they help. I personally ensured my team would have funds available in case of major sponsor drops, but I know a lot of teams don't have that luxury. Sometimes I wish I was at home so I could help now, but I'm away in college so I can help more later. :/