If you don't mind me asking, why the heck did they take your robot? :confused:

yea, thats just cold, they must be really stuck up not to give you atleast one of the batterys..

They own the team.. they have everything. We have our 2002 robot still, and are working on that to demonstrate...

Nope they won't give us anything.. and didn't really give us anything when we were sponsored by them.

I say take 'em to court. Did they specifically have a contract that says anything you buy with money from them is property of theirs? I mean, when you sponsor a team it's like giving them a donation to do what they want with it. What's the point of owning everything the team bought because anyone (liek the sponsor) with the money could go buy the stuff without sponsoring a team. You see what I mean? Something just not right about that.

Yes we signed a waiver that said anything produced was theres. Can't really talk about this guys.. or they will take us to court... and you can't win against one of the largest military suppliers in the US. They've got tanks, guns, missiles, and depleated uranium.

AJ, I admit to having exactly the same thought as sanddrag. Talk to a lawyer (and there are plenty of lawyers that are willing to "look out for the little guy"), and see if you can get a little time in front of a justice of the peace. With a little luck, or maybe sympathy (and certainly the facts as you've described them), you might get the JP to serve them with an order to give the robot (and whatever other property) back. The lawyer will also be able to advise you as to any leeway in that waiver--maybe there's some sort of back door you can use. (As a hypothetical example: is it possible that a school, as a representative of your school board, cannot provide services or products--like robots--to a corporation without approval from higher-up? If the waiver did not satisfy that condition, because it wasn't signed by a school superintendant, maybe you could have it declared null.) The lawyer can also advise you about small claims court (which exists largely to service disputes such as these).
If you're sure that these options have been exhausted (and I mean exhausted, not overlooked because they could sue you), then you're still not necessarily done for just yet.
I looked into your ex-sponsor a little, and you're right: they're a huge name in the military-aerospace sector. That's an advantage, not a disadvantage: their stash of depleted uranium will not help them in the face of public opinion. Here in Toronto, we have a fellow named Alan Silverman, who works for a major local TV station. He functions as a public ombudsman, reporting on perceived slights against average people--the typical case is a homeowner getting cheated by a general contractor, or a crooked salesman swindling money out of an unsuspecting senior. He does his research, and if he digs up "dirt" on a company or individual that has a pending complaint against them, he takes it to the airwaves. He's highly popular, and regarded as a credible individual, and he's seen frequently by thousands of households. If (and only if) you can honestly say that you have been wronged, consider the fact that your ex-sponsor will squirm at the thought of being branded as "a patron of the school system gone wrong", or some other unflattering title. Even if it weren't on TV, but maybe in the local paper, you might achieve the same result.
Let me backtrack a second though; maybe you don't even have to go public about it (because I'm the first to admit that this can be a messy proposition, and does not guarantee success). Serving them with a court order from a JP will give them that same squirmy feeling inside :o, since you can be sure that they'll be considering their situation if this were to get out into the general public's knowledge.
Another thing: in another thread, I expressed my view that you're a school group, and therefore under the control of the school, if anybody. (Remember the facetious example of the sponsor taking away the school band?) They would be, in effect, exercising control over a school group, from without--which is tantamount to a corporation exercising control over a school activity. If I'm reading this situation correctly, this is absolutely not permissible. Or are we saying that an external organization has the right to determine whether or not a school can organize a particular school group, irrespective of whether or not that organization even contributes to the school?!
The point: if they don't sponsor you, they have no say in the way things are run. You say that FIRST recognizes your school's team as being the CogSquad of yore (renamed, as it happens). That means that the only thing they have over you is this waiver. (So try to get that waiver quashed, or amended, or something.)
And remember, you can talk about anything you want, so long as it is true and civil (the provable truth is considered an airtight defence against accusations of defamation, slander and libel), and provided you are not party to an agreement not to discuss these things. (The waiver can't be a non-disclosure agreement as well--that would be positively ludicrous!)
Of course, I'm not a lawyer--so be sure to talk to a real one (if you haven't already done so).
Good luck.
-Tristan Lall

Sorry to respond late... but have you guys gotten a battery and charger yet? If not, I can have a set mailed out today or tomorrow.

Andy B.

This may be a little off topic, just to remind the veteran teams, we will NOT be receiving a new charger and battery this year. Something about the cost. Only rookie teams will get a battery.

I would just like retiterate again that we are not looking for legal help, or trying to fight this. We are only looking for a battery, and a charger.

If you cannot help with that, please do not respond.

If you were in the greater Toronto area, I'm sure we could have helped with a battery and charger.
And now, very briefly off-topic: If you are content to roll over and forget about it, that is your prerogative, but you aren't going to get your way just sitting there and moaning every third post how your bad, bad sponsor took everything. Like this: Either do something about it, or let it drop entirely.
(And don't worry, no more amateur legal advice is forthcoming.)

Its not unusual for sponsor corporations to retain control (possesion) of the teams robot

these are powerful machines (the bots) and without adult supervision someone could be maimed of even killed (60PSI on a 2" pnuematic clyinder puts out 280 pounds of pressure on a 3/8" shaft, a chain drive or gear drive will take your fingers off, an exploding lead acid battery will blind you...)

Having a team sue their previous sponsor would not be in the best interest of the team, or of FIRST in general.

Its possible the sponsor wants to start a new team at a different school, or its may be a matter of liability (sponsor does not want to get sued if a student is injured working on the robot without sponsor supervision).

I have seen this come up before with other teams (that disbanded), and I have seen students request the sponsor 'give' them the previous years robot, and the sponsor said no.

Incase you haven't read the other posts, I'm answering other peoples questions.

this is only half right - we will get new batteries, we wont get:

If you don't care about official FIRST battery's you can check out
Battery Store They have all kinds of battery's. If you want something that will last awhile (takes longer to charge) you can get higher amp batteries.

Our first robot went to our sponsor, NASA-JPL. When somebody asked our team leader, who works there, what JPL was doing with it, his reply was something to the effect of "Remember that scene at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?"

That was also the last time they asked for the robot.