Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

I have been giving this topic a lot of thoughts, that's why I haven't said anything until now.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but what Andrew ISN'T suggesting is to limit the chief delphi forum so that only team leaders can read/post in it. As far as I can tell, Andrew's idea sounds more like an private e-mail list, or a small private chatroom.

Imagine the regional competition, or an off season competition. After a long day of competition, an engineer, or team leader might want to invite some other mentors/engineers and talk about FIRST stuff. Yes, everyone deserve to talk about FIRST stuff, but they wouldn't want to invite everyone at the competition. When it is the next day again, EVERYONE goes back to the competition and have fun again. That goes along the same line with the chief delphi forum. Sure, people might PM each other for a little bit, but the next day they are posting in CD forum again.

So, let's not keep arguing about who deserve to express their opinions or not. As far as I am concerned, as long as the Chief Delphi Forum exist, EVERYONE will get a chance to share their opinions and knowledge. That's the best anyone can ask for. Anything more than that is just helpful additions.

Learn to PM the mentors/engineers/team leaders more often, or learn to structure your disucssion better so they are more constructive and easy to read. Chances are, if your discussion is really good and organized, good stuff are going to come out of them. I bet you the mentors/adults/engineers/team leaders will jump right in and join in the discussion if they find it interesting. In the end, that's what we want to do in the CD forum right? To meet other people, learn from what they say, and be better off than when you came in here the first time.

No need to argue about who deserve more to share their opinions. I know all of you care really much about your right to express your opinions, most are even passionate about it. That's why I keep coming back into this forum. There are a lot of great folks around here who aren't afraid to say what they mean. Sure, some could be a little more considerate of others, but all in all, I am proud to be part of this community. As long as the Chief Delphi Forum community exist, everyone can have a say in it.

Now sit straight and organize this thread into Pros, Cons, constructive criticisms, suggestions, and analyze the method of the way you organize it. Oh wait, that's forcing my opinions onto others... Never mind. :P :P :P

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

Ive been involved with FIRST since '97. I dont think its any secret that the adults onthe teams DO hold leadership meetings without the students present.

This is not so we can get together and talk about the students behind their back - or to make decisions that involve the students without giving them a chance to voice their opinion.

There are many aspects of a FIRST team that the students are not involved with: the responsibilities and liabilities to the sponsor corporations, travel, primary fundraising, lining up mentors and sponsors for next year, problems with mentors (yes! sometimes mentors need a talking to)

and sometimes the adults just need to get their act together, and need to hobnob with their fellow mentor wizards :^)

Our team has always had (adult) leadership meetings a couple times a month -believe me, if students were forced to attend they would think they were being punished. And there have always been meetings of adults of the teams in our area, to find ways to sponsor new teams, to find ways to work together cooperatively, to share major expenses.

Lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes that the students arnt fully aware of, and to be honest, they would not want to participate in 99% of the time.

If you want to be a part of the exclusive group know as 'FIRST mentors' - when you get into college or land your first job, join a team and be a mentor.

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

my repsonse to the above post- that excatly what i was asked (its called reading for content)
just a litte niche here that the faculty leaders can learn from each other on how to run the day to day operation of a team and a job and a family life while doing this FIRST thing

as for the ad hom attacks by email (you will be dealt with shortly)

and which pretty much reinforce the fact that we are not aways dealing with repsoinsible enities and that why i brought this subject up

I deeply resent the fact that it is portayed that i wanted to exclude people from knowing whats going on with the team
i just think that not everyone of the team needs to knwo what goes on witht eh dreary day to day stuff- because they in most cases dont have the whole picture nor do they have the experince of dealing with it

the niche fourm place was for the vetrans to share with the rookie leaders how to cope and still maintain a modicum iof a life outside of school

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

i like this idea .. personally there are certain topics that i would like to address to team leaders alone and get advice from the team leaders without having any of my team's members reading about them ... i realize that htis can be done through pms and emails, but that would be a lot of pms/emails to send and even then, you are only getting a limited amount of opinions and advice because you cant possibly send it to everyone ...

and deciding who gets access to this forum .. i would love to say use the honour system .. if you are a team leader, etc. maybe send a pm to brandon or something and you will be granted access .. however i do not think that this will work becuase some will always lie to get access (not to put anyone down ...) ...

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

So I admit my first thought when I read Andrew's post I didn't really like the idea. However, after thinking about it, and then reading the rest of this thread i changed my mind. Especially after reading Andrew's post about possible topics, I realized that our team has issues with nearly every one of those, and even if they can't really do a lot to help it would be nice just to have someone I can talk to with out having to risk hurting anyine's feelings.

About what sanddrag said, these things don't need to be discussed with multiple teams, well I don't have anyone else on my team I can discuss them with. There's just me and the kids. And it doesn't help half the time I still feel like I should be one of the kids. It was kind of a shocker going from being one of the kids last year on 226 (goofing off and sword fighting with meter sticks) to being the only adult (finally understanding that although meter stick battle are highly entertaining, we need to get stuff done) and the one that every expects not to mess up. It's not that I want to exclude the students and have a private little adults meeting, but that I don't want to hurt their feelings in discussing some of the things that Andrew mentioned earlier. And ignoring them doesn't make them go away. And it would really help if I had someone to talk with about them.

Allison

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

Its really good that you see it our way :)

Though i just want to clarify that the idea of private forum is for the team's own website not the ChiefDelphi site; Altough, team leaders can learn a lot form you guys with a lot of experience( especially me who just became a team leader) though that thread doesnt really has to be private(in my opinion).

And if the chief delphi guys make a private forum it would be really hard to judge who gets access and who doesnt, i mean Brandon would have to look through a lot of PM's and still he wouldnt really know who is telling the truth or not ;)

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

it would be easy to know who the real mentors are

we are the only ones who know the secret handshake

[oops! was I suppose to say that?]

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

so is anything going to happen with this ?? or was it just an idea thrown out ?? because as i said earlier, i like the idea of the forum for team leaders only ....

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

Here are my thoughts.

1. VB3 just came to the Chief Delphi Forum. Brandon has a ton of work to do to get it back into shape.
2. The season is about to start. Everyone is ready to get the new game and build robots. There won't be much time and energy to think about this yet.
3. CD forum is still working well. We can still survive for 1 more season without adding anything.

So, my suggestion is we wait a week for the new season to start, get used to the new VB3 style, let Brandon have his time to work out everything, then we can figure out what to do afterward.

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

Sorry, but i've never been a fan of these types of secondary dealings. its not as if they arent a necessary part of every team, especially one where financial and number constraints are as a large a FIRST team's could be. However, all of those issues are issues that should be discussed by a team at large, within their own leadership by students/mentors/teachers that have experience, or wahtever method each particular team chooses. The last issues specifically troubles me. Venting is venting, and especially on the internet, anything can turn into a flame war or a bunch of meaningless replies.. yes even on CD. The idea of having a seperate "higher authority" area to vent cuts down on parity. Yes we know life isnt fair, but when you institute somewhere for people who are supposedly senior to specially complain and disparage people on their own team or otherwise, its not fair to anyone at all, and more importantly, it does not come off as being too friendly or too inspiring for a person to look up to.

everyone needs to blow off steam once in awhile, but doing it in such a way as so they cant see it, but other people of supposedly higher "rank", and on CD too, does not fit with my own ethics and beliefs. Naturally as people have shown already, there will be differences. But i think a large majority of people would be entirely unhappy with the implementation of this idea.

edit: phrasing of a few areas.

This sort of thing seems much too internal to put onto CD.

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

A very valid point.
"Keep your garbage, in house..."

It could be disrespectful to come onto a public forum, and talk about team business...

John

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

I agree that flameing others has no part on CD or any other medium. Having a place to vent is not always bad. There are times when it is good to vent to the team (I am guilty). There are times to vent to other mentors (ditto). There are times when venting to others outside of your enviorment can bring a new and refreshed perspective. Other people that have been through the same or similar problems can shed light and help. AGAIN I say NO FLAMEING!!! this is negative all around. Would I like to see a "For Mentors Only" area? I can see the good and bad. I would probably spend some time there. There is still alot for me to learn. If students want to learn from mentors then they should think on how mentors can learn from each other to become better mentors. Mentors also learn from students (I do daily), so for us we can inprove exponentially.

Enough ranting! :o

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

i totally understand that .. i was just wondering if we were going to be getting one or not .. i understand that Brandon has a lot on his plate with the vb3 and a new season starting in a week tomorrow !!!!!!! and i also realize that this is not a major priorities or anything .. i was just wondering if eventually we will be getting one .. sorry i should have explained myself better ...

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

um.. excuse me for being a bit stupid.. but how do you know who's a team leader and who isn't??

I mean yeah... i guess in the profile field there could be a yes/no box for team leader / mentor.. but anyone could change their profile. And.. I'm sure there are CD users who are team leaders, but who don't have any profile filled out.

Mabey there's something I'm not seeing here, but I just don't see how you (or anyone) is going to know who out of the 4,905 CD members is a team leader and who isn't.

Re: seperate section for team leaders
 

that's where it would require you to know the person in real life (either through work, FIRST experiences, or elsewhere)