Most Competitive Regional
 

Okay teams...

Now that we have been able to scout the team lists at FIRST's site, which regional is going to be the most competitive in the 2004 season?

Here is my opinion after much analysis:

Now, each year the Midwest produces the greatest amount of strong and competitive machines. So, the Great Lakes Regional (GLR) has been notorious as being the "most competitive" or "hardest regional to win" for the past few years, but I think things are changing. This year, GLR will be the first regional that is hosted in the Midwest area. Usually, GLR is the second regional held in the Midwest area, which allows teams to practice more and to attend their first regional. I know from experience that the Cleveland Regional (usually the first Midwest-located regional) has less competition because teams are still "finding bugs and getting in their precious practice."

Of couse, the most important thing to factor in are the teams that are attending each regional. It is my opinion that there is more strength in the GLR team list, but the Midwest Regional's team list isn't too shabby!

Finally, it is my opinion that the Midwest Regional will be the most competitive regional this year because of its similarly strong team list to GLR, but also because the GLR regional will prep teams beforehand.

Hey - that's just my opinion... what's yours?

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

i agree with you that the midwest produces awesome teams. however with the addition of the new detriot regional, a few teams have decided to go there rather than GLR. that takes away some of the competetion but not very much. also the midwest regional is going to be more competetive than other years, but still not quite up to the level at GLR. i would say that the great lakes regional is once again at the top of the list, followed by the midwest regional/

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Uh oh....
cans...
worms... (as someone else has said)

What defines most competitive regional?
Number of quality teams?
How to define quality team?
Deepest field (top to bottom)?
Past performance?
Most parity?
What teams from what regions of the country do better at the Championship?
Is there any way to know these things?

Anyone want to make a pitch for the NJ Regional as one of the most competitive in the country?

-Steps back waiting for Big Mike, WayneC, Aignam, and the others...

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Rich,

Of course this is a vague question, that was my intention! I just wanted to see there was a consensus as to which regional is the most competitive. My understanding of the question (because I did write it after all) is essentially, "What regional has the strongest team list?" This can be done by using previous knowledge from past years. Just a thought...

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

The Florida Regionals have always had some amazing things happen. lots of tough bots

the first regional where 4 bots got ontop of the ramp at the end of the match

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

The NJ Regional is definitely amongst the most competitive. Don't believe me? Come and see for yourself. ;)

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Yea I always thought the Florida regionals were very competitive.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Are you suuuuuure?
Last year, week 1, day 1 we had that happen in New Hampshire.
Be careful when you say stuff like that...



The most competitive regional will be in the midwest.
Simply because, that is where there is the greatest concentration of "competitive" teams, that build competitive robots. Nowhere else in the country can match it.

This isn't to say there are'nt strong teams elsewhere in the country, just that there are less of them attending the same regionals. I remember looking at the team list for Midwest last year and thinking: "this is like a list for 'who's who among FIRST teams". Can't compete with those Michigan, Illinois, and Indiana power-houses!



Go New England FIRST!

John

My heart goes to New England... ...my head goes to...
 

I am a big fan of the New England regional as among the toughest in the nation (er ah... ...world).

But then again, now with the NH regional and J&J right in the same neighborhood, it is not the same as in the "old days" of '96-'98...

Now that I think about it, I come back to numbers and statistics. With the exception of newish regionals where rookie and 2nd year teams are over represented, I think that good teams are more or less evenly distributed over the set of regionals so...

...which one will be the toughest to win? Easy, the Canadian Regional because it will have the most teams to beat.

I am not saying that this will mean that the winner of the Canadian regional will be odds on favorites at the Championships however...

...I reserve that spot for any team with the audacity to win both the Detroit and the San Jose Regionals...

...now who could that possibly be? ;-)

Go Chiefs!

Joe J.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

why would you think that teams from one area of the country would be more competitive than from another area?

Engineering and technical sponsor companies exist all around the world - the midwest doenst have a lock on engineering expertese

as a matter of fact - there are plenty of automotive corporations in the midwest who make cars and trucks - but the equipment they use (the machinery) is often from other parts of the country, or from other countries.

The machines that detroit uses to make gears, for example, are made by our sponsor, Gleason - here in Rochester, NY

with the addition of auton mode last year, and more emphasis on SW and sensors - the playing field is staying pretty level across all the teams.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

It's the simple fact that the Midwest just has more opportunities for teams to be created or started - there are more resources. I am in no way trying to slam other teams in "non-Midwest regions", but I feel that the average level of competition is greater in the Midwest. The past three years, we had Beatty (from Indiana) win the national twice along with last year's winners which were:
111 (from Illinois)
469 (from Michigan)
65 (from Michigan)

Its my opinion that there is a greater CONCENTRATION of competitive teams in the Midwest, but counter if you feel I am wrong! I am certainly biased because I am from Michigan and have only been to Michgan/Ohio regionals and Nationals for the past three years.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I think it would be a mistake to equate winning the championship with being the best team

out of the 800 teams last year, less than 300 went to the championship - thats means only 3/8 ths of the teams were represented

and not because the other teams dont have the resources to qualify for the championship - many teams choose NOT to attend, preferring to spend their money on attending another regional instead - spending their funds on things that directly benefit their team or FIRST, instead of airline tickets

I dont understand what resources you think only exist in the midwest? machine tools? engineers? machinists? money? corporate sponsors?

?!

BTW - if you have never been to an east coast, west coast, florida or texas regional, then on what basis would you form an opinion on which is the most competitive?

personally I think the most competitive regional is probabally the last ones played before the championship - they will have the most teams that have been in more than one regional, and will have their machines optimized for best performance.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

The way I interpret it, he's not saying that these resources don't exist in other areas; rather, they exist in far greater qualities in the Midwest (especially Michigan) than in other areas.

The reason why is quite simple: the Big Three auto companies. Ford, GM, and DaimlerChrysler are all headquartered in Michigan. Beyond that, other companies that supply the Big Three (such as Delphi) also have a major presence in the state.

It's fair to say that the Big Three and their suppliers sponsor a good number of FIRST teams. It's also fair to say that some things come easier for those teams. My team, for example, worked in the GM Tech Center last year. This is, if I recall correctly, home to the largest group of GM engineers in the country. Needless to say, we had no problem getting intelligent and talented engineers to work with our team. The Tech Center is also home to more than a few shop areas, and we were able to do most of our work either in the Tech Center or in the nearest GM plant (can't recall exactly where it is).

Because of the numerous auto plants in the state, Michigan does have many machinists and machine shops...far more than some other areas.

With Ford, GM, and Delphi in the area, among others, it's also somewhat easier to find a corporate sponsor who will be reliable and support the team fully.

To answer your question, I'd say that the Midwest actually does have more everything you listed than other areas of the country. It's just the way things have worked out.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I dont agree - cars are not made in machine shops, they are made on assembly lines with equipement that would never be taken offline to build a part for a FIRST robot

I cant think of any part or component on a FIRST robot that could not be made in any basic machine shop - there are only a handfull of different types of metal-working machines

and they are used in machine shops all around the world.

or maybe Im looking at this the wrong way? by 'more competitive' do you mean more aggressive and less cooperative maybe? In most of the regionals I have been to we would rather spend our time and energy helping a rookie team get their bot running well, than to focus all our attention on winning

now that I think of this, teams from the area you are talking about have been know to be, well... snooty? aloof? not as friendly?

is this what you mean by 'competitive'? or maybe this is a part of it?

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Don't be too hard on Tytus. We were told by the announers that no one had four bots on the ramp at that point. Tytus was correct, as this was the information he was going off of.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

well i suppose the tedency is to equate the winners of the championships with being the "best" teams in FIRST simply because there is no other way to measure them. No matter what anyone does, it would be impossible to compare team statistics and what not to form an idea of what really is the "best" team in the organisation. its the same thing you can see in amature sports. Still, id have to rank winning the championship as one of the best/if not only way to accurately see how good a team is. The problem with anything else lies only if you havent seen which teams are being compared to etc. video and hear-say can only get you so far.

just as an aside.

while it might be true that a huge majority of engineering firms are located in the midwest, a team does not necessairly need them to be succesful. im going to use woburn as an example.. mostly cause i dont know any other team ;) our primary sponsor is a bank and trust, with three or four mentors at one team, all former teachers @ woburn. and we took 2nd in canada, and 1st in west michigan. so im sure that having that tech base to work with is superb, but not necessairly a big reason for success.

edit: oops, used reply to thingy twice.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

now that I think about it, the way the games and the competition are setup, having to play with an unknown alliance partner, and the amount of chance involved, with variables that are outside your control

its almost as if FIRST is not really intended to be a robot building contest at all!

like maybe there is some deeper hidden purpose behind this whole program? something elusive and yet, profound.

I cant quite put my finger on what it could be

but maybe being the most competitive team out there is not what its all about?

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

J Flex - Thanks for the complement ( I guess) but I have never been a teacher.

Asfor the most competetive thats easy. It's the one in which you are competeting at the moment. All the rest are a breeze cause your not there. As for the Canadian Regional as being the most competetive because of more teams, I'm not so sure. It will be the Best regional though. I have seen a lot of teams and believe me when I say that I never saw 1 not being competetive. Even the teams that could barely run were pushing in the pits and doing their very best to help their alliance partner during matches.

Where will the best robots be? We won't know till it's all over. The best robots may not be at Championship but they will still be the best robots.

:cool:

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I didn't know I was being hard on him?
Sorry Tytus, didn't mean to be mean, just issuing a clarification.

If you look here:
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2003/index.html
You can see that Florida was a 3rd week regional.

John

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

How about the Canadian Regional? It's the only one in another country but it's full of competitive teams like 48, 188, 783, 639... :)

This year, the 70+ teams, 2+ fields, and up to double the qualifying rounds should make it one great regional. I don't know if anyone can judge a regional's competitiveness with clear objectivity but I at least know that the Canadian Regional willl be highly entertaining and fun. As it has been the last 2 years.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I assume it's up to me to speak up from the southeast,

Peachtree Regional is the most competative! w00t!

or at least it will be in a few years, give Georgia two years with two or more veteran teams and the Peachtree'll be competative enough to compete for most competative (that sets the date two year from this season, sounds like fun, but until then, we'l just have to make do with the Championship as "Most Competative Event"; see y'all in April!)

edit: I don't really say "y'all", but it was stereotypically fitting.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Mike you have a very valid point i agree that it is a matter of perspective. Oh one more thing i think Philly owns J&J. :-P

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Even if you find someone who's gone to regionals in all regions (and I would consider the south a 4th region), most likely they won't have gone to the best (however you define best) regional in that region. And even then, there is some (a lot) of bias involved.

Anyone have an idea for a ratings system for teams similar to the BCS?

Joe

-Attended LA, San Jose, Cleveland, NYC, LI

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

In my opinion, the hardest part of the competition is not that actual manufacture of the robot, but the design process. It is the enginners that go through the design process all the time that will have the edge in this competition, not the best machinist.

Wetzel

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Whew, I thought you went soft there for a minute, Mike. Actually, I know this is not anything to be answered objectively.

103 has competed at regionals in New England (the 02 finals at UTC will remain one of my fondest memories), Philadelphia, NJ, and MD. Joe is right about there being so many regional choices these days. Because of our location NJ and Philly will always be competitions of choice.

The Philly teams have really "matured" over the last few years, making it every bit as competitive as NJ. NJ is the regional we started at seven years ago and keep going back to because of the awesome combination of competitiveness and comraderie. Because of that comraderie, even the rookies in NJ are usually tougher than most. However, there was a rookie champ in Philly in 2003 too. We also attended MD in 2003 and had a great time. As a first year event it was excellent and, in looking at the team list for 2004, I'd characterize MD as potentially being very competitive.

I know we'd love to go back to New England for a regional in the coming years, the Naval Academy is a beautiful venue and packing up for the midwest one of these years would be an awesome experience too. But locking horns at home in Philly and NJ (now at a much bigger venue) is way too hard and close to resist.

Hmmmm..... I think I need to rob a bank, lengthen the season, and convince school that being on the road for two months straight is a good thing :)

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Good thing your team won the Chairman's Award last season.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

[edit] actively acquire more financial resources [/edit]

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Philly

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

:^) there is a big difference between

needing to rob a bank

AND

planning to rob a bank

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I think that the midwest is so competitive is because many of the midwest teams have been around for a long time. Naturally, they have more experience, giving them an advantage. When you have a team that has been around for 10+ years, theyve probably also developed a good sponsor base, that continues to supply them with funds, expertise, materials, shop time, etc, as opposed to teams on the west coast, which are generally the newer teams (overall) except for a few. Im not saying there arent good teams in the west, because there are. Having never been to a competition anywhere but in California and Nationals two years ago, I suppose I really cant judge, but it just seems that the midwest consistently produces more good robots than any other area in the country.

Cory

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I've given this a lot more thought...
In terms of pre-season, how does one rate the competitiveness of a regional, without knowing what the game/robots will be like?

Well... past experiences obviously... But, what specifically?

In my case, it has to do with the teams attending, and how many of them I think of as "competitive". The regionals with the most competitive teams, will be the toughest.

Which of course brings up another question... in the pre-season how do I define this?

I've given this a LOT of thought, and here is what I've come up with.
A team is "pre-season competitive" in my mind if... I'm scared of the robot they will design, and what they will come up with.

This is based on a lot of things for me...
I've been around this competition for a few years, and I've been described as a "Student of the game" so I've seen my fair share of robots (from all over the nation, not just New England). If a team has consistently put out impressive robots, that scare the bejesus out of me, obviously I'm going to consider them a competitive team.

Cmon guys... you know what I'm talking about.
If you don't understand, look at the Wildstang robots from... ummm...
1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003. get it yet?

Do the same for the Technokats.
Do the same for Chief Delphi.
Do the same for BBS.
Do the same for Beatty.
Do the same for BUZZ.

Understand yet?

These are the teams I'm talking about. The ones who go out, build an amazing machine, and kick some butt... EVERY YEAR.

Some teams in the country are good... but in my mind, they still aren't quite to this level yet. There are TONS of teams who pull out great robots... but how many do it every single stinkin' year?

So... where is the greatest concentration of these teams?
Midwest. Just look down the team lists for some of those regionals...

Here's another exercise...
This is only for those people who have seen a lot of robots, and a lot of teams over the years... (not the ones who have spent their entire life attending only one regional, and don't pay attention to the "international" scene).

Name your top 10 teams in the nation.
See any one regional heavy in those teams?

I do.

John

Disclaimer: This is obviously a very opinionated subject. I just posted my opinion, and examples to help others understand where I'm coming from. Obviously... there is no "right" answer to this. The only way we can quantitatively argue this is AFTER the regionals have ended. But until then, it sure makes for something good to think about while we wait for kickoff...

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

John,

Excellent way of evaluating my question. I look at the regionals and find the teams that CONSISTENTLY perform in the top 10%. Here is my list for the Great Lakes Regional of 2004:

27 (Team Rush) - Buckeye Regional Winner ('03)
45 (Technokats)
65 (Huskies) - National Title Winner ('03)
66 (Penguins) - National Title Winner ('02)
67 (HOT) - Great Lakes Regional Winner ('03)
68 (Truck Town)
111 (Wildstangs) - National Title Winner ('03)
201 (FEDS)
226 (Sharks) - Great Lakes Regional Winner ('03)
292 - Midwest Regional Winner ('03) & Newton Division Winner ('03)
322
448
469 - National Title Winner ('03)
494 - National Title Runner-up ('03)

These are just the teams that I remember after looking thru the list! These 14 teams total all have high amounts of potential or have already proven themselves as one of the elite.

With this sort of a field, I think that it is hard to dispute the difficulty of winning the GLR.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

mzitz2k,
thanks for including our team in your list. being on the same list as the other teams you listed is truely flattering (even if you did forget our team name and regional wins, its the team number that counts right?) :)

anywho, history has shown that the midwest produces many competetive robots every year. but who knows, this year could be the year that the national level evens out a little. if the competetion level outside rises and approaches the level of the midwest robots, then this year should be a heck of a lot of fun. however, i still do feel that the midwest produces the most amount of competetive robots, and i still feel that the GLR has the most competetive field. however, if i'm wrong and the other regions do match the level of competetion at GLR, then this years national should be exciting!!!

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Will,

Sorry for missing your regional win from last year! Like I said previously, all of the regionals that I have attended have been in Michigan or Ohio and I have seen webcasts of the Chicago (Midwest) Regional. Looks like 302 and 322 will be pit partners at GLR and only one spot away at Western MI.

Looking for forward to seeing your team's robot - especially drive train.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Thanks!

I am honored that T3 is on your list. Thank you very much.

Our team also is convinced that GLR was, is, and forever will be the most competitive regional. Just the fact that so many good teams choose to attend.

Can't wait to see you there!

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Alexander,

I have alway had the utmost respect for T3. I get a stomach ache just walking down your row of pits because there are so many top-notch teams with those low numbers. I think T3 is not only a great robot building team, but also a great community and student building team - you guys are top of the line people! We'll see at GLR and GOOD LUCK (68 doesn't really need any though ;) )!

I just want to clarify that I simply read through the list at GLR and then wrote down all the team numbers that consistently build fantastic machines. Please don't hold it against me if I forgot your number because I was simply going by memory! I always like to find the "sleeper" when I am scouting in the pits!

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

A couple of years back, someone put together a spreadsheet with each regional, and which teams were going to be in each.

From that, you work on the theories that a regional is defined as tough by the average years of experience, and that the older a team gets, the tougher they are to beat, whether through people experience or game experience (though this is pretty faulty, it works :) ). The averages can then be used to see which one is "tougher".

Knowing the forums, someone's got to have some free time/enough pent up pre-kickoff energy to burn in making a new one. Anyone upto the challenge? You don't have to check out the age for each team; post-98, they can be discerned by number, and pre-98 can probably be found with a bit of digging.



Ok, some incentive....I'll bake cookies for whomever makes the spreadsheet! Ken Leung can vouch that they are worth it. :)

Have fun!
-Jessica B

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

No need to step back- just a need to step up if you are going to compete at the NJ Regional- for a long time the most competitive and diverse regional.

Thats my biased opinion.

WC

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Whether it was tough or not, I must say that it was the coolest regional to go to in the New-England area, with it being held in the barn at Rutgers. I loved driving for hours and hours just to wait in line...and IF you did get in, then you got to sit practically on top of the field ! <---no sarcasm there, people, I really do love that regional.

When I read that they changed the venue, I was sad :(

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I'll also say that Rutgers was my favorite regional compared to the ones I've gone to in Connecticut. Don't get me wrong, the Connecticut ones are good but Rutgers just seemed to have something going for it. Maybe it's as Jess mentioned about going there and finally getting in after waiting hours and sitting right next to the field that made it worthwhile! :D I also liked the fact it gave me a reason to go back to my home state. :p I'm originally from Wanaque, located in northern Passaic county.
Where are the NJ regionals located now?

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

The NJ Regional, formerly the J&J Mid-Atlantic Regional, will be located this year at the Sovereign Bank Arena in Trenton, NJ. This venue is exponentially larger and has plenty of room for expansion. More information available at www.njfirst.org.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

I'd say that the UTC Regional was the most competitive I've been too. There are always great teams there.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Hi to all ------- HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!
We at team 88 TJ2 started in 96 in NH that was the first year for us, then it was of to the new reg. in NJ 1997 with tire tubes etc what a great time we have had in FIRST. NH NJ TX FL CT LI and Mini comps after nats. I think each year it is different power to each reg. We all like our own teams and our own regs. but that is part of the fun with the ROBOTS. Check out some of the early years it was very different and hard on YOUR own " no partners" Then we can talk, no one to put the blame on but yourself. Like Football what team is better ????? or who was JIM BROWN ?????? or #5 for GB back in the old days each year is different ---- GOOOoooo PATS ------- How about RUMBLE AT THE ROCK ??????? Teams going 100's of miles in cars and buses in JULY ???? to see what will happen !!!!!!!!
Team 1 - 23 - 25 - 19 - 40 - 45 -47 - 56 - 42 - 61 - 65 - 75 - 95 - 157 - 100 - 180 - 190 - 65 - 126 - 133 - 501 - 16 - 25 - 41 - 66 - 103 - 131 - 68 - 140 - 175 - 173 - 71 - 111 - 69 - 121 - 211 - 191 - 102 - 213 - 365 - ONLY some of the early ones ETC ETC ETC ETC and 88 -----
oh yeah ???? OH YEAH !!!!
Just some of the early years I could go on for ever with this, see me at the 04 regs. and we can talk if you would like.
Team 88 TJ2 wishes all of the participants of FIRST the best of luck see you sooooon.
MOE
:yikes:

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Moe!

Your autographed socks are, I believe, the last gift that is left in my dorm room related to FIRST. Best of luck in 04!


Ok, back on topic. Nothin to see here :) Though I'm still looking for takers to make that spreadsheet.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

It's one thing to argue your point that competitiveness does not matter, but it's totally absurd to imply that teams in the midwest are out to win at all costs and do not care about their fellow competitors. You've made the general accusation, care to publically back it up with team numbers? If not, don't imply that we're all snooty, aloof, and unfriendly.

Have you been to a regional in the midwest? Do you know how much we cooperate and help each other out? Have you seen how many veteran teams reach out to rookies and other veterans in need? A competitive robot does not mean a team does not help other teams. I'd argue the opposite. They're the teams that have the most experience & expertise at building high caliber robots and are anxious to share their talents with others. My team has members who will slave over a fellow competitor's robot the whole day while other members of my team slave over our own. Just because you see teams working like mad on their own robot does not mean the team does not reach out to others and offer assistance.

Maybe instead of assuming that all the midwest teams fit into pre-defined notions you should come talk to us and give us a chance to prove the stereotypes wrong.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

okay .. my opinion is going to be biased seeing as i have only been to the canadian regional last year and nationals last year as well .. but i think that the canadian regional will be the most competitive, not solely because of the amount of team and the two playing fields ( though that is a major factor), but because a lot of the teams competing are rookie teams and we are looking to make a name for ourselves ( i know my team has been coming up with ways to make us stand out and memorable ) .. i think that the pits will be more crowded but there will still be a lot of interaction between the teams and a lot of gracious professionalism shown ...

whether it will turn out to be the most competitive or not ..we will just have to see ... but it is surely going to be a lot of fun ... especially with the thursday being april fools day !!

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Without getting upset I have to agree with Mike. I have attended Pittsburgh and West Michigan last year as a mentor and announcer. When at each event, I found teams in dire need of help. It didn't matter what team I approached with a problem to help other teams EACH and EVERYONE of them sent at least 2 team members over to see what could be done to help. At West Michigan our team had problems and we needed some parts. There was an abundance of teams willing to share parts and time. I have only been in FIRST for 3 years (2 as mentor) but it doesn't matter what teams I come in contact with, everyone wants to help others. At the Cleveland Regional the 1 year I started with FIRST I went as an observer. Never having seen a FIRST event I really didn't know what to expect. After walking through the pits and being approached by team members to talk about their robots , I got hooked. I saw so much co-operation and desire to help each other COMBINED with a real competitive event I told the people I was with I HAD to join a team. This all stemmed from being at a mid-western event.

I believe that some teams seem to carry an attitude. Last yeam I visited Team Hammond and Team Hot in the pits and got a sense that I was not wanted around. HOWEVER I went back at the end of the day and spoke again with both these teams. I came away with a totally different picture. I recieved a lot of good pointers as well as I found out that when I visited there were problems that were being worked on.

My advice, Don't go on first impressions and secondly YOU have to make the effort to get to know other teams. FIRST is a great place to be. Everyone is different and that's what makes FIRST so great. As for the most competitive regional I still say that depends where you are and the teams you face. HURRY UP SATURDAY !!!!!!!!! :cool:

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

If this were football or basketball or baseball then it'd be easy to say which teams dominate what regionals but the competition in FIRST changes from year to year. New teams are formed and old teams are dissolved. Students and mentors come and go.
Thus there is no such thing as "the most competitive regional."

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

While I have never been to a Midwestern Regional, the BeachBots did send a delegation to IRI in 2002. We sent a "minimal team" and therefore did not have the luxury of having several of our mentors with us. Wouldn't you know, the areas we were short were the areas where we had problems. WildStang in particular but also Team Hammond and others worked with us to try and resolve the problems we were having. We never did get them fixed, but we had a good time anyway. We might have gotten the problems fixed if we had people there who could answer the questions their experts were asking.

I can't say that the Midwest teams are more helpful than anybody else, that would be an incredibly high standard to reach. But they are at least as helpful as any other group of teams and certainly more so than some, based on personal experience. I still haven't figured out anything more they could have done to help us. It was rather humbling to have to be on the recieving end of that help for once.

BTW we never did resolve the source of those problems. When we got it back home the robot behaved and has ever since. We suspect it might have been due to damaged batteries and or batteries with a marginal charge. Unfortunately we had a unique battery/main breaker configuration and couln't swap batteries with other teams easily to test whether that was the problem or not. We have added a "standard requirement" that we be able to use "stock" batteries in all future robots as a result.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

actually it depends on what part of the competion you focus on(we all know everyone is entersted in winning overall i mean like rookie all star and such......). i think that the Lone Star Regional is the most competitive rookie regional. there are i think like 12 rookie teams at our regional and all are goood teams so far. i also have evidence in the fact that the rookie all star that won nats. rookie all star last year came from LSR.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

most competitive regional is where TJ goes... hahaha just kidding.... But I don't know this is a tough question... I think though the Canadian Regional with like 80 teams going... I wish wwe could go there...

?!?!?
 

where did I say anything about ALL the midwest teams?

I've been to regionals at Rutgers, Philly, Cleveland, Toronto and Ive been to the championship a couple times.

There are teams Ive encountered from the midwest that come across as snooty, and somewhat arrogant - usually its teams that are well funded, sending the bot to a regional EVERY week, pouring tons of money into their machines, and its obvious that a great deal of the work on the machine was professionally done, not done by the students

I am talking about the students on the teams, not the mentors. Maybe the kids on those teams were frustrated. Maybe they equate the amount of money spent on their team and bot with 'superiour'

I have also observed that teams on which the students have done most or sometimes all of the work on the bot, they have a better understanding of what it takes to build a machine, and they tend to be more humble and understanding with other teams - that type of hands on experience teaches you humility quickly, not arrogance.

Why get upset with me for observing that some teams act snooty and arrogant. Go back and read this thread - the teams doing the most boasting, and attempting to back up those boast with illogical rational ARE in the same area.

Detroit doesnt hold a monopoly on anything. Maybe 50 years ago, but not now - there are outstanding engineering businesses and sponsors all around the world, and outstanding FIRST teams at all regionals.

To be an sucessful engineer the first thing you have to lose is your ego.

I didnt say they were, I asked if I misunderstood the question (what they mean by 'competitive') and if they meant agressive instead of friendly - I didnt say all the midwest teams are not helpfull

I said some of them have an attitude. You can help another team and still be stuck on yourself. In fact, this is something you have to be VERY carefull of when helping another team, that you are doing so with a cooperative and compassionate spirit, not 'showing' them how much better you are by fixing their bot for them.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

As a transplanted Ohioian (Go Bucks!) I would like to invite you to the Arizona Regional where a little known team from Kingman (60) who is sponsored by Ford and another little known team the "Gila Monsters" (64) who are sponsored by GM, not to mention several great California teams, and numerous NASA sponsored teams will slug it out this year. Besides, the weather is nicer in Phoenix in March.

Ken Loyd
Team 64

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Ok here is my predicions on the hardest regionals to win (as far as the east coast goes I have no ideas having not been out to the west in years as to how intense the west ones are)
1.VCU Regional-has always been a hard one to win b/c of the fact it's one of the first ones and one of the largest I'd say.
2. Palmetto State- has many "older teams" that will have already been to at least one other regional and at least 11 of the teams have a track record that says they can build kick butt robots consistently. :cool:

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

NH by far :ahh: will always be the most competitive regional, formaly UTC but all of the good teams shifted to NH last year and stayed this year! :D

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Competetiveness in NJ:

My advisor's team (my team) having to face, and eventually eliminate, my advisor's son's team, and our rookie team, in the semi-finals.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

This seems to be one of those ("this is the thread that never ends") threads....

You know, no matter how much we go back and forth on it, there's not going to be a clear-cut answer. Yes, there are some regionals that may be harder than others, but noone can say for sure that X Regional is better than all the others. You can't go by number of years a regional has been around...because newer regionals that crop up in areas with an older regional split up the area teams....which theoretically cuts the competitiveness.

My main point, though, is that this is also basically because none of us actually go to all the regionals (if you do, let me know so that I can shake your hand)....and you can't make a statement about which is most competitive unless you go to all of them. And even then, you'd only be one voice....you'd need a small group going to each regional and then voting afterwards on a series of points that relate to actual competitiveness, since not all of the people are going to look at everything.

I still stand by my point that taking an average age of competing teams at each regional will give you an experience score and thus show you which regional has the oldest teams at it, but whether that is a true statement of competitiveness is hard to say.

I also think we've beaten this subject to death, but that's just me.

Re: Most Competitive Regional
 

Ok.