No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

We've had the silly threads, the jokes, the clowns, and dlavery, but now I'm serious. Dead serious. We have 5 days to go and now I'm really asking for your real opinions here, what do you think the game will be like? 2 vs 2? Balls, bins, floppies? Autonomous? Just list it out.

2 vs. 2
Autonomous at end
Oil Drums
Weights
Two small ramps where the robots start on.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I'm thinking stairs and giant balls. We haven't had to pick up anything singularly massive recently, unless you count stacking the bins. Robots will not be touching the ground at the end of a match.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

one twist to the game I have been expecting for a while is

scoring during the game - teams will score points while the game is in action, instead of determine the score after its all over based on where everything is.

for example, something like robot soccer? one ball, goal posts...

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I agree with Ken, although I think that you will be awarded points for completing something quickly. For example, if the game lasts 2 minutes (120 seconds) then you will get points for [dropping an object into a bin] after a certain amount of time. If you droped it in 30 seconds into the game, you'd get 90 points (120 - time it took you in seconds). Although I think that it'll be more like constrcuting something rather then dropping a ball into a bin.

Stairs would be a really neat twist. It would require all teams to develop some kind of neat stair climber, since all of the previous games have been on flat planes that required conventional drivesystems. FIRST would factor that in and make the game easier.

Autonomous was a smash success, so it'll probobly be lengthened to 30 seconds+. Perhaps the robots will have to climb a stair case during autonomous.

Judging by previous years, FIRST will want a quick paced game, so obsticles like stairs and [many] oil drums probobly won't be in this year's game.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I think we will get some task that will be worth more points if done in automode than if you do it in normal driver mode, such as drive over here, pick up object, drive over here and place object in container off the ground. That would give a nice challange to programmers, but wouldn't make a huge differance for younger teams if they can't do it in auto, unlike the huge disadvantage you got last year if you didn't make it over the ramp in auto.

I believe the game will be on the same size field, 2vs2 again, and hopefully with a lot of uniformly shapped objects. One feature I think will come back soon is something similar to the 99' puck. For those unfamiliar, it was a large ocotgon platform on casters, with 8 metal posts sticking up in each corner. You got points for having the puck in your end of the field when the match was over, and then for having your robot either on top of the puck or hanging from one of the posts not touching the ground. Whatever we get I'm sure if will be fun to design for as always.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I agree that running scoring during the 2 minutes is appealing. I wonder how it will be practical electronically, however.
My vote is for a maze of some sort with points for making it through and across the back line during the autonomous period.
Another possibility is pre-loading the robot with one or more 'balls' then allowing for scoring a goal during the autonomous period.
Finally, don't overlook the obvious: points for where the machine winds up at the very end. (maybe some autonoumous time at the end?)

CA

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

i think that there will be an autonomous .. and stairs ... and im not really sure what else to expect ... i like the idea about scoring through the game ... other than that ... i guess well find out on saturday !!!

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

1. Goals with moveable castors.
2. Balls
3. Bins
4. Ramps
5. Railings
6. Carpeted field
7. Autonomous mode
8. Timers
9. Human players
10. Mesh wire and slippery plastic

My guess is a "game" similar to ice hockey. Played on a surface similar to the slippery surface at the top of the ramp last year. In this game the "autonobots" battle the human players for the giant puck. The humans are on small, wheeled carts similar to gym scooters (every school PE dept. has 2 dozen of these handy) and the 'bots scoot around using sensors. The humans are "steered" by commands generated over handheld devices (PalmPilot or Handspring). The "autonobots" see the pucks which are held in bins at the top of ramps. the idea is that within the 30 seconds the humans set out the bins, mount their scooters and whiz around the plastic suface dodging the bots and trying to stuff the scooters and the bins into the goals while the bots attempt to circumvent them. At the end the alliance with the greatest number of bins and scooters stashed in the goals wins. The remaining alliance must then play a winner-take-all match of either Chutes and Ladders or Yahtze to see who wins! That way there is always something going on for the crowd and your alliance is never out of contention.

Go Figure and see you Saturday!

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I've always thought that real time scoring like you said would be a really neat idea, but that doesn't nececarrily mean that they will have it. I think that the administration likes how, at the end of a match, they can take as much time as they want to argue about the score.

Also, I think it's not very likely that human players will be on the field directly battling robots. They've always been on the sidelines.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

i believe that there will be stairs, but not all teams will be required to use them. instead, the stairs would be more of a bonus. two years ago we had a "home" zone, where if you were there at the end of the match, extra points were awarded. this year i believe that you will be awarded extra pts if you are at the top of the stairs at the end of the match (maybe autonomous).

i would also like to see more of a role given to human players. in previous years, the human player element leveled out the playing field a little more. a good human player meant more points, and the unfortunate teams who couldnt move, or had trouble still had a way to score points. i like the idea of the human player shooting balls at goals.

other probables for this years game:
1) autonomous will remain
2) 2 vs 2
3) elimination matches will go back to best of 3
4) bigger human player impact
5) there will be a need for robots to be able to reach higher. (maybe to get things from high shelves, score balls in a tall goal, maybe to grab onto a bar and hang). in previous years, robots had to be able to go vertical, the the past two years FIRST has gotten away from that.

-just my thoughts-

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

Here is my official prediction for the 2004 game:

Scoring object: Footballs, worth 1 point each
Main Method of Scoring: Throw or lift footballs into your alliance's goal: an 8' elevated net of yet unknown diameter
Hazards: Along the middle of the field there will be car tires, possibly bolted to the ground, centers 3 feet apart. There will be an opening in the middle that is 5' to allow robots the possibility of passing through if they cannot climb over the tires. Robots must get to other side of field to access their goal (unless they throw the footballs)
Multipliers: There will be no multipliers in this year's game :ahh:
Other:

• There will be two black footballs, each worth 5 points.
• Robots who finish the game without touching the ground (either by climbing on the tires, or hanging from an apparatus above the tires) will receive 5 extra points for the alliance.
• Robots will be able to remove balls from the enemy goal by pushing up on the net from underneath.
• Autonomous mode will be 15 seconds, followed by 2 minutes of normal play. Goals can be located from anywhere on the field via retroreflective tape.
• Elimination matches will return to the best-of-3 format

Hope to see some of you at Manchester kickoff on Saturday!

Good luck
- Patrick

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I'm really thinking that autonomous will be back just because it really added a twist to last years game. Autonomous meant a great deal last year, if you were able to get all the stacks on your side then, you had a much easier job throughout the match. I've heard a lot about this idea of stairs and it seems as if it would be neat. I'm thinking that stairs will be optional, and as a bonus come the end of the match if your bot manages to climb to the top, kind of like being on the HDPE was this year. The game itself will be 2v2 and the floor still of carpet. As many of you said, the idea the last few years hasn't been to go high but just speed and strength. Possibly stationary goals of some sort while the robots can score points in another fashion. I also think that the game this year won't be so dependant on having a certain type of drive train, although a really nice drive train always helps ;). Yeah, who knows? I might be completely wrong but it is really just a guess. :rolleyes:

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I agree with the fact that they're probably going to throw a major curve ball in the game this year. I'm guessing that since autonomous was a big hit, it'll involve autonomous. As somebody said with stairs, I think that would be a great idea, I would really like to see something like this actually... the strategy behind it would be really nice, and it would force teams to redesign drive systems if they wanted a great score. I think we would see some very interesting ideas, and since this could be a "Bonus" I think something like this could be implemented, since it still allows the rookie teams who just build boxes with wheels to still be able to compete and if they work well, have a chance at winning.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

i would like to see somethign like stairs. |Autonomous mode will most likely be back but i see them liek throwign a curve and putting it in like the middle of the match or at the end. IF there are multipliers this year i dont think it will be as bad as last year like 25 points per robot. I think we will have to deal with some kind of surface i odnt know how but we will. mm now that i think i woudl really like to see stairs

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I think that FIRST will keep the 2v2 and im almost sertain that Autonomous will be in this years games and maybe another ramp like game. I dont think that stairs will be in this years game because I think it might be a little to diffecult for the rookie teams. remember what dean said at last years kick off
"We want to make the game to be somewhat easy for the rookie teams but also suffistacaded for the other teams"
so the stair thing might be a little to diffecult. But I would like to see that.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

1) Autonomous will be at the end of the match
2) Goals will be stationary and require robots to go vertical
3) Teams will receive extra points for being at the top of a flight of stairs when the match ends
4) No idea what the scoring objects are going to be, maybe footballs though
5) There will be other types of field materials than just carpet, perhaps HDPE again

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

For the last two years, befor kick-off i have always said *i know it there are gonna be stairs this year*... and well we all know it hasn;t happened.... but hey third times a charm right? So i am going tosay that there will be some sort of, atleast step up (like the puck a few years ago) that we can get creative with the drive design with...... so come on STAIRS!
.... and if that's the case and there is some sort of step=up the game should be called *You Be Steppin?*

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

This should definitely be possible...just add a few sensors to whatever the scoring device is, or possibly have a "goal judge" to watch and add points. Hopefully, the scoring will be less complex than it was last year...those bins were confusing.

3 times 18 is...wait, now it's two times 17...no, one times 10... :ahh:

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

I think that at the very begining of the game there will be a long Autonomous time period , which will eliminate the human player time period, when your robot can score points which will end up as your multiplier. Then the robots will be under human control were the robot will have to collect round balls and use some kind of throwing mechinisum to throw balls into a elevated and secluded location on the field.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

autonomous I think is a definate......I'd like to see a system where ther longer you stay in autonomous the more points you get for what you accomplish in autonomous......which I think is doable....(not to mention that it would be easy for the rookies, they wouldnt have to do too much in autonomous, while the experienced teams can take it as far as they'd like)

hmmm My preditions......
1) Same size field
2) 2v2
3) mainly carpet, but some other type of surface in there, nothing too expensive like HDPE or something like that

4) Teams must move a scoring object into a scoring area or goal (whether an area on the field or an actual goal.

5) roughly 2 minute round, possibly some human player time on top of that

6) autonomous will be extended in some fashion, if not what is described above then simply more time (20-30 seconds)

7) extended electonics budget again, to allow for using the extra power of the new controller.

8) Some catch, whether it be movable goals, goals being game objects, ramps, stairs, pits of inflatable clowns, but most likely something new that we havent thought of yet.

Ok, sorry its kind of general, but just a few trends I've been noticing in the past few years. Hopefully a clearer scoring system, probably something that it is easier for the audience to tell who is in the lead. *shrugs* we will see Saturday *giddy*

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

Here are my thoughts:

1) Autonamous will back (not sure when)

2) 2 vs. 2

3) There will be some sort of movable goal/step up

4) I think the multi-level stairs isnt possible because of the risk of falling off

5) 2 min matches

6) Human Players will have more of an impact on the score than last year
- In otherwards they will take part in more than just the first 10 secs

Just what I came up with now. I plan to think about if intensly over the next 5 days

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

Bill of materials for this years playing field are here:

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2004...wcostfield.htm

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

These playing fields have been rectangular for quite a while now... it'd be interesting to have a non-rectangular feild for once. FIRST might go for it...

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

My Predictions for 2004:

1. 2 vs 2 again
2. Extended Autonomous Mode (At the end of match and at the beginning)
3. Two Movable Goals (1 Per Alliance)
4. Scoring platform in the middle of the player field.
5. Different Layered Surface Heights.
6. New Scoring System.

7. Points for pushing "enemy" robots out of the field.
8. There will be a playing field height that after you climb up there will be a risk of falling off, like a giant cliff, on this at the end of match = more points. (Stairs and a steep inclined ramp will lead up to this. Gaining more points for stairs.)
9. Scoring Devices (hopefully footballs, hahaha i like footballs and no its not because I play football.) that will have to be picked up and put in a scoring bin.

thats all for now, saturday is oh so close :ahh:

regards
UngsFree (Mike Unger 272)

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

My speculation is just a conglomerate of other peoples' with one exception. I think that autonomous mode can turn on and off at any time in the game. I think this will happen either at random, or when a robot/s complete (a) certain task/s. Other than that, I figure that there will be (a) ramp/s of some sort, and something that revolves - perhaps the ramp/s. I also think that maybe robots will have some means of blocking certains ways of passage for other robots, limiting opponents to certain areas of traffic - but that, like the balancing ramp in 2001 (? - can't seem to think straight right now, is this the right year?) such blocking of traffic can be undone (like as in an arm that could tip the ramp back the other way). That's about all I've got to thinking, other than that I am highly curious about the incredibly amounts of wood and screws on the BOM for the cheap field.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

A few suggestions:

- don't over analyze every possibility. Studying a problem too much doesn't help any more than not studying it enough.

- don't try too hard at this, the incessant guessing doesn't get any where and doesn't help get you ready for the competition.

- just relax and enjoy the calm before the storm. Soak in the experience, enjoy it and don't get too spun up too early. You will live a lot longer (and like it more)

-dave

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Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

not going to happen this year....in the middle of the season first was building 3 more feild units to account for the increased number of regionals...each one feild costs tons of money to make and i doubt they would dispose of them right after being made....my .02

Re: No really, what do you think the game will be like?
 

They don't need to be thrown away, just mothballed. Besides, because of their modular construction, it may be possibly to use the player station bits in whole or in part and modify the field shape.