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-   -   Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23651)

Aignam 11-01-2004 21:59

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
anything that is wide enough to block both corral openings would have to be, what? 24 feet wide?

assuming your bot is in the center of those wings, thats a 12 foot lever

I dont care how much traction or weight your bot has, if I grab the end of the 12 foot lever I will drag your bot all over the field - turning the wings into pretzels in the process.

BTW - rules state nothing can detach from your bot. nothing can be tethered either

It's hard to grab something flush against a diamond plate wall.

Todd Derbyshire 11-01-2004 22:07

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aignam
It's hard to grab something flush against a diamond plate wall.


Looks like we are thinking the same thing....NJ should be fun :D

Aignam 11-01-2004 22:14

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Derbyshire
Looks like we are thinking the same thing....NJ should be fun :D

Heh, oh it will be. NJ always puts out some good competition. We'll see what 25 thinks up this year... :yikes:

KenWittlief 11-01-2004 22:14

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
if your wings are exactly 24 feet wide, then you would have to center your bot perfectly before opening them, which would be impossible

so the wings would have to be a little shorter than the width of the field - meaning there would be small openings at both ends

besides, to deploy said wings, the end of the field would have to be completely clear of balls, or they would keep them from being flush with the walls.

Joe Matt 11-01-2004 22:28

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
if your wings are exactly 24 feet wide, then you would have to center your bot perfectly before opening them, which would be impossible

so the wings would have to be a little shorter than the width of the field - meaning there would be small openings at both ends

besides, to deploy said wings, the end of the field would have to be completely clear of balls, or they would keep them from being flush with the walls.

It's 6 feet across, so only 6 feet wings to block the ball return. But if you do that, you won't make any good friends.

Trust me when I say you can't controll the game, only play it. Sparky 3.0 won the design award at VCU in 2002, but failed horribly in the finals, and didn't even make it to the finals in Champs. It wanted to controll the game. Guess what. I couldn't have. Build a bot that can do one thing and do it well, and stick to it. Then build around that. Sparky 4 was built for 2 things: bin maneuvering & fast autonomous mode. Stacking, throwing bins, and everything else came latter as the pieces feel into place. You must design with the intention of not being a one-man army, but working with partners. Sparky 3.0 didn't work well with others. It failed. Same with all the other ramp blockers from last year. Also, alliance partners pick on strengths and how you complement them, not if you try to dominate the game and they just sit around the theoretically twiddle their thumbs!

KenWittlief 11-01-2004 23:00

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
yes, 6 feet wide on both sides of the endfield - so your wings would have to span 24 feet to block both of them.

Aignam 11-01-2004 23:06

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
I dont care how much traction or weight your bot has, if I grab the end of the 12 foot lever I will drag your bot all over the field - turning the wings into pretzels in the process.

Play nice.. ;)

Joe Matt 12-01-2004 08:35

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KenWittlief
yes, 6 feet wide on both sides of the endfield - so your wings would have to span 24 feet to block both of them.

OH! I see now. Stupid me....

Mr. Ivey 12-01-2004 09:16

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
JosephM is exactly right. Do not try and control the game. That is why Sparky v3.0 just sits over in a corner as a reminder to what not to do in competition. You will not have to torque to stand up against two opponents, you can not make your wings strong enough without exausting any and all funds, and you won't be quick overall. And if you have the money to build those wings, think, if a bot can grab the end of one of those wings, and starts pulling back you are over. You can turn the other wing into a fulcrum, then the bot pulling on you can easily turn the rest of you into a lever. With this leverage, your wings will bend, and you are over. From a design standpoint, you really should not build a bot that covers the corrals. Also trying to build a bot that makes a wall over the area that the balls are shot from can't happen. Defense is not a good way to play this game.
ivey

stuy694 12-01-2004 10:19

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Um guys, I was serious when I suggested a bot that could break into two parts connected by a tether and block both goals. If you make both sections wedged and added small wings to each you have both corrals blocked.

Though personally I think blocking corrals is the wrong way to make friends and play this years game.

animater31405 12-01-2004 12:41

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Ivey
JosephM is exactly right. Do not try and control the game. That is why Sparky v3.0 just sits over in a corner as a reminder to what not to do in competition. You will not have to torque to stand up against two opponents, you can not make your wings strong enough without exausting any and all funds, and you won't be quick overall. And if you have the money to build those wings, think, if a bot can grab the end of one of those wings, and starts pulling back you are over. You can turn the other wing into a fulcrum, then the bot pulling on you can easily turn the rest of you into a lever. With this leverage, your wings will bend, and you are over. From a design standpoint, you really should not build a bot that covers the corrals. Also trying to build a bot that makes a wall over the area that the balls are shot from can't happen. Defense is not a good way to play this game.
ivey

Ok. Sorry to just but into a conversation but I agree almost completely here. All except for the point of playing defense is a bad idea. I happen to find it a very ggod idea to manipulate your opponents goal and cap their large goal for point controling. I know there are problems with that, but theoretically one could do this very easily. Let em have the balls! They're worthless if they aren't able to put them in anything in the goals!

Joe Matt 12-01-2004 13:44

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by animater31405
Ok. Sorry to just but into a conversation but I agree almost completely here. All except for the point of playing defense is a bad idea. I happen to find it a very ggod idea to manipulate your opponents goal and cap their large goal for point controling. I know there are problems with that, but theoretically one could do this very easily. Let em have the balls! They're worthless if they aren't able to put them in anything in the goals!

And nobody was against that, just the designs where you would controll the game, the people who want to have a robot that can hand off the bar, move multiplyers, and push balls into the corrals.

Ragin_Kage 12-01-2004 13:57

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
I think there really are so many ways to go at this game, there is a lot of things you can have your robot do, and realistically its hard to have them do multiple things well. A good robot should control some aspect of the game, and do something the best really, i remember last year wildstang controlled the ramp pretty well, this year, go for the bar...a lot of possible robot designs, good fun

ngreen 12-01-2004 14:09

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
The best way to block balls shoots without a robot is to position the mobile goals. Fill your own and cap it well for one side and keep them from uncapping their own for the other side once they are in place your robot can leave to do other things. Like trying to steal the rest of their balls or getting the bonus 50 points.

David66 12-01-2004 14:32

Re: Legality of Blocking Ball Chutes
 
you can control whatever game you want. just ask a certain sponsored by pepsi how to do it. they do it, and tend to win nationals every couple years. Straddle the BOX and the answer will come quickly


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